← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · il ragno
Thread ID: 13296 | Posts: 52 | Started: 2004-04-23
2004-04-23 19:14 | User Profile
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former NFL player Pat Tillman was killed Thursday while serving as an Army Rangers soldier on a mission in southeastern Afghanistan, Pentagon officials have told CNN. He was 27.
Tillman, who walked away from a $3.6 million contract as a safety with the Arizona Cardinals to join the military after the Sept. 11 attacks, was in an area where numerous U.S. troops have been killed in battles with suspected al Qaeda and Taliban fighters.
Tillman was a member of the 75th Ranger Regiment, a light infantry unit out of Fort Benning, Ga. The officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said a formal announcement was expected later in the day.
Spokesmen at the Pentagon and U.S. Army declined comment.
There were no immediate details on his death.
A military official, also speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that a soldier had been killed in action in Afghanistan on Thursday, but could not confirm that the soldier was Tillman.
"Pat Tillman was an inspiration both on and off the football field," White House spokesman Taylor Gross said. "As with all who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror, his family is in the thoughts and prayers of President and Mrs. Bush."
Several members of Arizona's congressional delegation released statements on Tillman's death.
Sen. John McCain said, "I am heartbroken today by the news of Pat Tillman's death. The tragic loss of this extraordinary young man will seem a heavy blow to our nation's morale, as it is surely a grievous injury to his loved ones."
Sen. John Kyl released a statement calling Tillman "a great American hero in the truest sense. He had already given up so much, including an incredible football career and loving family, to fight for his country in the war on terrorism. His patriotism and courage are an inspiration and we are grateful for his ultimate sacrifice."
Rep. Jeff Flake said, "Pat Tillman exemplified the sacrifice, selflessness, and service of the U.S. military. Nowadays, genuine role models in professional sports are few and far between, but Tillman proved that there are still heroes in sports."
Tillman played four seasons with the Cardinals before enlisting in the Army in May 2002.
Tillman's brother, Kevin, a former minor league baseball prospect in the Cleveland Indians' organization, also joined the Rangers and served in the Middle East. They committed to three-year stints in the Army.
He made the decision after returning from his honeymoon with his wife, Marie.
Tillman's agent, Frank Bauer, has called him a deep and clear thinker who has never valued material things.
In 2001, Tillman turned down a $9 million, five-year offer sheet from the Super Bowl champion St. Louis Rams out of loyalty to the Cardinals, and by joining the Army, he passed on millions more from the team.
Tillman turned aside interview requests after joining the Army. In December, during a trip home, he made a surprise visit to his Cardinal teammates.
"For all the respect and love that all of us have for Pat Tillman and his brother and Marie, for what they did and the sacrifices they made ... believe me, if you have a chance to sit down and talk with them, that respect and that love and admiration increase tenfold," Coach Dave McGinnis said at the time. "It was a really, really enriching evening."
Pat Tillman was an inspiration both on and off the football field. As with all who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror, his family is in the thoughts and prayers of President and Mrs. Bush. White House spokesman Taylor Gross
It was not immediately clear when Tillman went to Afghanistan.
The 5-foot-11, 200-pound Tillman was distinguished by his intelligence and appetite for rugged play. As an undersized linebacker at Arizona State, he was the Pac-10's defensive player of the year in 1997.
He set a franchise record with 224 tackles in 2000 and warmed up for last year's training camp by competing in a 70.2-mile triathlon in June.
Tillman carried a 3.84 grade point average through college and graduated with high honors in 3 1/2 academic years with a degree in marketing.
"You don't find guys that have that combination of being as bright and as tough as him," Phil Snow, who coached Tillman as Arizona State's defensive coordinator, said in 2002. "This guy could go live in a foxhole for a year by himself with no food."
Tillman and his brother Kevin last year won the Arthur Ashe Courage award at the 11th annual ESPY Awards.
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
2004-04-23 20:02 | User Profile
What a waste of a perfectly good White man....but read my signature down below.
2004-04-23 22:42 | User Profile
Was the cause worth dying for? What a tragedy.
2004-04-24 00:04 | User Profile
What a freaking idiot.
2004-04-24 00:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Peter Phillips]Was the cause worth dying for? What a tragedy.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about that. Lets say we let the Muslims eventually overrun Israel. Where do you think the kikes will go? You really want 6 million more of the bastards here?
2004-04-24 01:06 | User Profile
Tillman was a brave man who gave up millions to put his ass on the line. What a pity his death was totally unnecessary. He'd still be alive if the jew-owned whores of "our" government had pursued an even-handed Middle East policy, which would've prevented the 9-11 attacks that prompted Tillman to join up.
At least he was killed hunting for Osama in Afghanistan, and not in the inexcusable Iraq debacle.
2004-04-24 01:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=N.B. Forrest] At least he was killed hunting for Osama in Afghanistan, and not in the inexcusable Iraq debacle.[/QUOTE]
At least that was the saving grace of his sacrifice.
2004-04-24 10:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill]I don't know about that. Lets say we let the Muslims eventually overrun Israel. Where do you think the kikes will go? You really want 6 million more of the bastards here?[/QUOTE] If we let Muslims overrun Israel (which will eventually happen and no one can really avert it - its a demographic timebomb), we can also let them run elsewhere.
The idea that there is a risk that all Israelis would turn up at America's door is not terribly good reasoning for supporting Israel.
2004-04-24 10:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Peter Phillips]If we let Muslims overrun Israel (which will eventually happen and no one can really avert it - its a demographic timebomb), we can also let them run elsewhere. [/QUOTE]
I really don't care what happens between the Muslims and Jews. I just don't want any more Jews coming to the US under any circumstances. That's my bottom line. In fact, I want the ones who are already here to LEAVE the US. In fact, I wish every Jew was over in Israel. Let the Arabs fight with them till doomsday. Maybe we'll get lucky and the'll kill each other until neither of them are left.
In any case, the Muslims need to be slapped down again. It seems we have to do that every few centuries. They're causing trouble everywhere. Look at Chechnya and Kosovo. Neither of those places involve Israel. There were 30 churches destroyed in Kosovo just last month!
2004-04-24 10:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Peter Phillips]The idea that there is a risk that all Israelis would turn up at America's door is not terribly good reasoning for supporting Israel.[/QUOTE]
There's no question about it. If Israel goes down, they'll all be running to America just as fast as you can count to ten. That would be the worst thing I can think of.
Things are bad enough in the US with five million Jews. What do you think it will be like with twice that number?
2004-04-24 10:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill]Things are bad enough in the US with five million Jews. What do you think it will be like with twice that number?[/QUOTE]The Israeli Jews are not the smart ones. The smart ones are already in America. Israeli Jews' average IQ is 94 by the way. I wouldnt worry about them too much.
However, it is an illusion to think that Israel can be saved perpetually with American muscle. It cannot be. Israel has an exploding Muslim population within Israel (Buchanan's "Death of the West" thesis). There will eventually be civil war and the Israeli Jews will try and kick the Muslims out. But its not as easy as we might think. The Arabs will be at their throats.
America would benefit immensely by staying the hell out of the Middle East. America only gets problems in return for its foolish Middle Eastern policy.
2004-04-24 10:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill]In any case, the Muslims need to be slapped down again. It seems we have to do that every few centuries. They're causing trouble everywhere. [/QUOTE] Muslims cannot really fight a straight fight with the West. In terms of learning, technological development and sheer military firepower, it is a no contest. To argue that we should be "slapping them around" just gratuitously makes no sense.
What we should be doing is not letting in millions of them INTO the West. Thats the surest way of losing the battle. Instead of staying out of their squabbles and keeping them out of the west, we are doing the opposite. Letting in millions of them and then trying to sort out THEIR squabbles.
As for Kosovo, that was the most shameful act of American and European intervention in recent memory. We had no business destroying the Serbs to let Albanian thugs do what they please.
2004-04-24 13:45 | User Profile
You are wrong, Wild Bill.
In the first place, Jewish power has qquintupled since the founding of the Hate State. Better that we absorb Israel's 5 million Jews - and that desert headquarters and clearing-house for their worldwide conspiracy lay gutted and in ashes - than the Jews we already have all make simultaneous aliyah to a nuclear-armed command control center.
Think of the Western World before and after '48. Before and after Herzl and Balfour and the millions of white men who went to their deaths in Jew-financed, Jew-manipulated conflicts; and all of it like a bullet fired at one target - the founding of a Jewish state.
If they want it bad enough to feed the rest of us into the abattoir to get it, then the first order of buisiness is to take their prize away from them and smash it into a thousand pieces. Remove their 'homeland' and watch the air go right out of them....
2004-04-24 14:43 | User Profile
There was a curious restraint by the media in reporting the Tillman storey from the beginning. Surely Tillman's deed of going from football to a ranger company, and turning down large amounts of money did not fit in with current media perceptions of what young jocks should be doing. Now imagine if Pat Tillman were black: The media propaganda mill would have rolled, and the storey would have been in your face from morning to night. No excess would have been avoided in praising the great black one. Patriotic, brave, and a true American, blah , blah, blah.
2004-04-24 16:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]What a freaking idiot.[/QUOTE]Many on this board hold in contempt those who feel an obligation to display courage. Pat Tillman obviously did so. For this he paid the ultimate price.
One of this board's tough-talking elders, [B]madrussian[/B] called Tillman an idiot for his willingness to confront an enemy. If this country will make a change for the better, one Pat Tillman is worth 100 [B]madrussians[/B]. Like so many [B]madrussian[/B] will hide behind internet anonymity and then, and only then, will he display what he considers his virtue. What would it take for the madrussians of this board to grab a rifle and confront an armed enemy?
Many lurkers read this gutless tripe and form opinions about this board and its members. I ask for an explanation from this gutless creature who taunts others more manly than he.
2004-04-24 16:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]... In contrast, neocon lies notwithstanding, nothing Iraq ever did harmed the US in any way. The invasion of Iraq is a war of naked aggression by the Bush administration and its Zionist handlers, and anyone who volunteers to serve as apart of the occupying grand army of the New World Order there is either a fool or a scoundrel.[/QUOTE]Like so many on this board I wish Jews to get their fair share of the blame for causing disasters.
Yet other factors were involved. Our horrendous trade deficits and Iraq's pricing of oil in Euro's rather than dollars had Wall Street extremely nervous as they could see the capital of world finance shifting to Europe once again. Our refusal to curb our appetite for oil may yet be the death of this country. If we get in bidding wars for oil with Germany, Japan and now China our treasury will be bled very quickly.
2004-04-25 01:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]I agree that Afghanistan was at least a just war, from the standpoint that the people who attacked the US were setting up shop their and being aided and abetted by the Taliban. The fact that the whole thing could have been prevented in the long term was irrelevant to the fact that retaliation was necessary in the then and now. There certainly is no dishonor in volunteering to fight the Taliban given the circumstances of the time.
In contrast, neocon lies notwithstanding, nothing Iraq ever did harmed the US in any way. The invasion of Iraq is a war of naked aggression by the Bush administration and its Zionist handlers, and anyone who volunteers to serve as part of the occupying grand army of the New World Order there is either a fool or a scoundrel.[/QUOTE]
Correct, as usual. Yes, the Afghan war was indeed unavoidable, considering the way the Taliban was giving us the finger instead of Osama. When a bunch of camel-humping fanatics kill thousands of Americans indiscriminately, there can simply be no other choice but retaliation against them and those who give them succor, even though they have legitimate grievances.
2004-04-25 01:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Peter Phillips]The Israeli Jews are not the smart ones. The smart ones are already in America. Israeli Jews' average IQ is 94 by the way. I wouldnt worry about them too much. [/QUOTE]
Highly intelligent offspring often emerge from parents with even below average I.Q.s. The prospect of millions more jewwws stinking up our shores would mean a hell of a lot more nation-destroying Dershowitzes, Schumers & Foxmans, and all looking for Old Testament-style vengeance on the American goyim who "betrayed" Israel.
Screw that. If the rags ever do manage to overrun the Zionist Entity, I hope they exterminate them all.
2004-04-25 02:04 | User Profile
Tillman. Is that a Jewish name?
2004-04-25 02:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=N.B. Forrest]Tillman was a brave man who gave up millions to put his ass on the line. What a pity his death was totally unnecessary. He'd still be alive if the jew-owned whores of "our" government had pursued an even-handed Middle East policy, which would've prevented the 9-11 attacks that prompted Tillman to join up.
At least he was killed hunting for Osama in Afghanistan, and not in the inexcusable Iraq debacle.[/QUOTE] "Brave" for what? There IS a difference between bravery and stupidity.
He deserves a Darwin Award for his blind obedience to the flag-waving of the Washington Criminals.
2004-04-25 02:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=edward gibbon]Many on this board hold in contempt those who feel an obligation to display courage. Pat Tillman obviously did so. For this he paid the ultimate price. [/QUOTE] Tillman obeyed the flag-waving of the Washington Criminals, and died as their whore in Afghanistan.
True bravery would have been to use his position and prestige to call attention to the fact that Bush is a traitor and this whole "War on Terrorism" is a fraud. However, that would have involved a degree of courage so lacking in most American "men."
2004-04-25 02:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]I agree that Afghanistan was at least a just war, from the standpoint that the people who attacked the US were setting up shop their and being aided and abetted by the Taliban. [/QUOTE]The attack on Afghanistan and the Taliban was and is in NO WAY "just."
The Taliban was cozy, cozy with the Washington Criminals for years, until they told Unocal that they were selecting a South American company to build the oil pipeline across their territory (because Unocal and partners tried to rip them off). The Taliban was pretty much a Pukistani puppet, yet Bush allied the United States with Islamisbad. The replacement for the Taliban is now the puppet regime of Hamid Karzai...a Unocal "consultant."
There is no evidence whatsoever that Osama bin Laden or "Al Qaeda" is not a hoax. He's a genuine "Goldstein" right out of [u]1984[/u]. We know bin Laden was a CIA employee for years, and there's no reason to believe this changed. We can assume this from the way the Bush regime gave special treatment to the bin Laden crime family before AND after 9/11. "Al Qaeda" is a hoax to befuddle the already chronically stupid American People, a "punching bag" to hate.
9/11 was the work of a joint Mossad/Bush regime operation, designed purely to effect geopolitik in South Asia, particularly the mostly untapped oil fields just north of Afghanistan, as well as neutralizing Israel's number one enemy, Saddam Hussein. Bush's "reaction" (non-reaction) at being told America was "under attack" is the most damning evidence that he knew who was acting and why things were happening on the morning of 9/11.
2004-04-25 02:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=N.B. Forrest]Correct, as usual. Yes, the Afghan war was indeed unavoidable, considering the way the Taliban was giving us the finger instead of Osama. When a bunch of camel-humping fanatics kill thousands of Americans indiscriminately, there can simply be no other choice but retaliation against them and those who give them succor, even though they have legitimate grievances.[/QUOTE] You have fallen victim to the perpetual fertilizer machine of the Bush/Kosher Konservative Propaganda Mill.
9/11 was a joint Mossad/Bush regime operation designed to get America into South Asia for both the untapped petroleum in states bordering Afghanistan, as well as "getting rid of" Saddam Hussein, Israel's number one enemy.
2004-04-25 02:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE]"Brave" for what? There IS a difference between bravery and stupidity.
He deserves a Darwin Award for his blind obedience to the flag-waving of the Washington Criminals.[/QUOTE]
Like most other people who've been indoctrinated their entire lives by the judenpresse, all Tillman knew was that "his" country had been attacked. So he chucked his huge paycheck and put his life on the line in order to avenge that. His actions proved he had balls, even if he lacked political sophistication.
2004-04-25 03:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Tillman. Is that a Jewish name?[/QUOTE]
Tillman is a prominent Southern name, as in Benjamin Ryan Tillman, populist South Carolina governoe and US Senator. As it happens, I reviewed a list yesterday of all Jewish households in South Carolina, Virginia, Savannah, and New Orleans in 1830. No Tillmans, though some surprisingly non-Jewish-sounding names.
Here's some info:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Tillman[/url]
2004-04-25 03:15 | User Profile
Pitchfork Ben Tillman on the Senate floor, March 23, 1900:
[url]http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/55/[/url]
[I]I want to ask the Senator this proposition in arithmetic: In my State there were 135,000 negro voters, or negroes of voting age, and some 90,000 or 95,000 white voters. General Canby set up a carpetbag government there and turned our State over to this majority. Now, I want to ask you, with a free vote and a fair count, how are you going to beat 135,000 by 95,000? How are you going to do it? You had set us an impossible task. You had handcuffed us and thrown away the key, and you propped your carpetbag negro government with bayonets. Whenever it was necessary to sustain the government you held it up by the Army.[/I]
[I]We did not disfranchise the negroes until 1895. Then we had a constitutional convention convened which took the matter up calmly, deliberately, and avowedly with the purpose of disfranchising as many of them as we could under the fourteenth and fifteenth amendments. We adopted the educational qualification as the only means left to us, and the negro is as contented and as prosperous and as well protected in South Carolina to-day as in any State of the Union south of the Potomac. He is not meddling with politics, for he found that the more he meddled with them the worse off he got. As to his ââ¬Årightsââ¬Â ââ¬â I will not discuss them now. We of the South have never recognized the right of the negro to govern white men, and we never will. We have never believed him to be equal to the white man, and we will not submit to his gratifying his lust on our wives and daughters without lynching him. I would to God the last one of them was in Africa and that none of them had ever been brought to our shores. [/I]
2004-04-25 03:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mwdallas]Tillman is a prominent Southern name, as in Benjamin Ryan Tillman, populist South Carolina governoe and US Senator. As it happens, I reviewed a list yesterday of all Jewish households in South Carolina, Virginia, Savannah, and New Orleans in 1830. No Tillmans, though some surprisingly non-Jewish-sounding names.
Here's some info:
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Tillman"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Tillman[/url][/QUOTE] My apologies for any implication that "Tillman" is inherently a Jewish name.
2004-04-25 03:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=N.B. Forrest]Like most other people who've been indoctrinated their entire lives by the judenpresse, all Tillman knew was that "his" country had been attacked. So he chucked his huge paycheck and put his life on the line in order to avenge that. His actions proved he had balls, even if he lacked political sophistication.[/QUOTE] Forgive me for not overlooking stupidity.
2004-04-25 03:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE]My apologies for any implication that "Tillman" is inherently a Jewish name.[/QUOTE] No need to apologize. I got a good laugh out of it.
2004-04-25 03:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Like most other people who've been indoctrinated their entire lives by the judenpresse, all Tillman knew was that "his" country had been attacked. So he chucked his huge paycheck and put his life on the line in order to avenge that. His actions proved he had balls, even if he lacked political sophistication.[/QUOTE] Yep. Very sad.
2004-04-25 03:57 | User Profile
N.B Forrest said - " I agree that Afghanistan was at least a just war, from the standpoint that the people who attacked the US were setting up shop their and being aided and abetted by the Taliban "
sorry I am not up to speed with how to include a quote, you would have thought that in 3 years I would have figured it out.. but not yet I guess
N.B. , I always agree with your posts. You have a historical perspective which is lived that I truly appreciate. However, why do you think that the Taliban or Osama bin Laden had anything to do with the debacle of September 11th, In the Year of Our Lord 2001 ? Forgive me but I TRULY do not understand why you think the Taliban or even Osama bin Laden had anything to do with that most horrible day. Tell me why you believe this ..
2004-04-25 04:32 | User Profile
WAKE UP. Osama bin Laden is a CIA front. A Lee Harvey Oswald. Why do you trust your Kings so automatically ? This is what Patrick Henry warned us about, and that's why you will never hear about Patrick Henry on the Disney History Channel . good info here, get on the list. [url]http://www.newswatchmagazine.org[/url]
and during the day, listen to [url]http://www.reality[/url] radio1320.com just a real AM station exposing the lies. how long can it last ? will the Stormtroopers come soon ? Barney Frank the General who machinized the onslaught on Iraq then mysteriously retired said in Cigar Afficianado magazine, and I paraphrase, that ( the next attack on the U.S. will bring MARTIAL LAW ) why do you think he called it quits. Perhaps he had a conscience. Perhaps its time to start thinking about statements such as this, by David Rockefeller - " nope new post so go to that.
2004-04-25 05:56 | User Profile
thats Tommy Franks not Barney Frank, two totally different animals..
2004-04-25 17:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=norcalnative1971]Tillman obeyed the flag-waving of the Washington Criminals, and died as their whore in Afghanistan.
[COLOR=Red]True bravery [/COLOR] would have been to use his position and prestige to call attention to the fact that Bush is a traitor and this whole "War on Terrorism" is a fraud. However, that would have involved a degree of courage so lacking in most American "men."[/QUOTE]So another little Nazi has surfaced with a Hitler avatar. As a step towards "true bravery", this scumbag can reveal his real name and a picture of himself (herself perhaps?).
Another tough talking internet warrior - just what this board does not need.
2004-04-26 01:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Exelsis_Deo]N.B Forrest said - " I agree that Afghanistan was at least a just war, from the standpoint that the people who attacked the US were setting up shop their and being aided and abetted by the Taliban "
sorry I am not up to speed with how to include a quote, you would have thought that in 3 years I would have figured it out.. but not yet I guess
N.B. , I always agree with your posts. You have a historical perspective which is lived that I truly appreciate. However, why do you think that the Taliban or Osama bin Laden had anything to do with the debacle of September 11th, In the Year of Our Lord 2001 ? Forgive me but I TRULY do not understand why you think the Taliban or even Osama bin Laden had anything to do with that most horrible day. Tell me why you believe this ..[/QUOTE]
I don't necessarily believe it at all. The ZOG scum who lord it over us are capable of anything. They cooked up a plan for terrorist attacks on Americans under the code name Operation Northwoods as a possible pretext for invading Cuba, and the Gulf of Tonkin puppet show. Furthermore, I'm fully aware that there are many apsects of 9-11 that stink like a sack of shit: the unprecedentedly lethargic Air Force reaction to the planes going off course; the seemingly absurd (and perfectly vertical) collapse of the towers just because of kerosene flames; the obvious lie about the Pa. plane crashing into the ground; the small hole in the Pentagon, etc. Yes, many curious facts.
As for Osama, he certainly was a CIA client during the war with the Russians. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that he's still on the payroll. He may be, he may not be; it's hard to determine that with absolute certainty from the outside. Perhaps he really is an enemy, and ZOG allowed his rags to strike in order to give them the badly-needed excuse for their Iraq plans, rather than orchestrating the thing themselves. Or perhaps the Mossad kikes who were "surveilling" the rags are the ones behind it. Or maybe it's Boosh & the jews together. As I say, it's hard to get to the bottom of it, even though the whole thing reeks of complicity.
But the point is that under the circumstances of the time, when much of this wasn't yet known, the public demanded that ZOG take military action against someone, and the most logical choice was the Taliban who were defiantly harboring bin Laden. Whether or not this was all by ZOG design is a moot point, considering the heat of the moment.
2004-04-26 01:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE]?Their Own Hotheadedness?: Senator Benjamin R.?Pitchfork Ben? Tillman Justifies Violence Against Southern Blacks In this March 23, 1900, speech before the U.S. Senate, Senator Benjamin R. ?Pitchfork Ben? Tillman of South Carolina defended the actions of his white constituents who had murdered several black citizens of his home state. Tillman blamed the violence on the ?hot-headedness? of Southern blacks and on the misguided efforts of Republicans during the Reconstruction era after the Civil War to ?put white necks under black heels.? He also defended violence against black men, claiming that southern whites ?will not submit to [the black man] gratifying his lust on our wives and daughters without lynching him??an evocation of the deeply sexualized racist fantasies of many Southern whites.[/QUOTE]
"Fantasies"......they should tell it to the tens of thousands of White women raped by these crap-hued dcks with feet. The pinko scumbag "historians" who invariably pull these framing tricks do so bcause they're afraid that if they don't, impressionable White students might be attracted to and persuaded by the arguments of uncowed White leaders of the past who weren't afraid to call a spade a spade*.
2004-04-26 06:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=edward gibbon]Many on this board hold in contempt those who feel an obligation to display courage. Pat Tillman obviously did so. For this he paid the ultimate price. I agree that Tillman showed some courage (or at least a thrill-seeking tendency), but he showed far less of it than those who are fighting against the most powerful military on earth. Many of them have paid the "ultimate price" as well. I have no love for the Taliban or their inane beliefs, but anyone who can pick up an AK or RPG and fight against ZOG's military, with its helicopter gunships and daisy-cutters, is FAR braver than the guy who has that immense power in his corner.
Speaking of courage and heroism, I wonder if anyone in the US military will ever summon the courage to live up to their solemn oath to "protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic." (Tim McVeigh is as close to such a person as I'm aware, since he tried to avenge the Waco massacre, but he was gravely wrong to deliberately kill innocent people). If the obviously unconstitutional Assault Weapons Ban gets renewed this year, what are the chances of "our" troops lifting a finger?
2004-04-26 07:17 | User Profile
Friends, because of the last 50 years, [url]www.deliberatdumbingdown.com[/url] and the HATE maniac's of Hooeyweird CA. and NYC media,inc. "THE" reason when most of the white young men who join and swear an "Oath" to defend the U.S. Constitution against all enemies foreign and "Domestic" do not understand what that is, is because the high schools of the our "Nation" are controlled by alien white haters and sworn enemies of U.S. all.. The lesbos, adl, NPR. freaks with pierced lips etc., and fudgepacking litigous nutz, and you name it, they hate the founders of U.S. and Western man in total. Vote for your dog or AL SHARPTON this fall before you you vote for the two scum bums this year.. This year will have less whites voting for for either party no matter what they say, as we can no longer trust their freaking polls or the voting stats. F...... them.... Our people are so dumbed because of FDR's treason, and total take over of our central govt. we are only a few steps away from a total NKVD move, in the name of security of course. Rabbi Savage is on the radio every day screaming to the Christian Zio nutzi's. Perhaps no more than 10% of U.S. know or are sure that FDR was guilty of TREASON and that he and his boyz forced Japan to attack U.S. on Dec. 7.. AS Mr. Treason knew that White America at that time WANTED NO part of a war against Europe, on the side of the White murdering Bolsheviks who had already murdered at least 40 million by late 1941, and had crushe the Holy Russian Orthadox Christian Church. Zionist brain washed idiot Apostate Christians are as evil as any Christian hating Boshevik was in the U.S.S.R. John 8-44 and Ezk-33-6 Gods breath to all Christian patriots.
2004-04-26 13:00 | User Profile
I think it important to keep the issue of "just war" in a broader context.
We are the aggressors here, I think there's no doubt about that.
We provide basically unlimited support for the Shitty Little Country - military, financial, political - in their quest to crush the Arabs and establish total domination across the enitre Middle East. In response, patriotic Arabs struck back at us, and only after many warnings that we were forcing their hand in that.
And then when they finally do strike back at the oppressor - and to our eternal shame that means US - we feign total surprise and get all high-and-mighty about it. I mean, what right do we have to moral indignation, after all the horrors we heaped upon the innocent heads of the Palestinians? We started this bloody mess, and I fail to see how we can base a "just war" on a reaction to our unprovoked action.
And I leave aside here the clear evidence tending to show Israeli foreknowledge of the whole 9-11 thing.
No, folks, we're the heavies here. We're the ones that are attacking the poor and defenseless. They're the patriots, we're the imperial agressors.
Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but there it is.
Regards,
Walter
2004-04-26 16:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler][COLOR=Red]I agree that Tillman showed some courage (or at least a thrill-seeking tendency), but he showed far less of it than those who are fighting against the most powerful military on earth. Many of them have paid the "ultimate price" as well.[/COLOR] I have no love for the Taliban or their inane beliefs, but anyone who can pick up an AK or RPG and fight against ZOG's military, with its helicopter gunships and daisy-cutters, is FAR braver than the guy who has that immense power in his corner.
Speaking of courage and heroism, I wonder if anyone in the US military will ever summon the courage to live up to their solemn oath to "protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic." (Tim McVeigh is as close to such a person as I'm aware, since he tried to avenge the Waco massacre, but he was gravely wrong to deliberately kill innocent people). If the obviously unconstitutional Assault Weapons Ban gets renewed this year, what are the chances of "our" troops lifting a finger?[/QUOTE]Angler, much as the now departed NeoNietzsche, professes to know so much about weapons, except what to do if somebody else has one. Tillman could not possibly measure up to your standards, now could he?
People such as yourself set such high standards or demands before you would deem any conflict worthy of your exposure to danger. Many on this board are such. Smirking gutless taunts are becoming more commonplace from many respondents, most especially those whom I suspect would lose control of their bowels if confronted with real danger.
You deny manliness and courage to those who show more balls than you. You are a contemptible wretch.
2004-04-26 17:18 | User Profile
There's no evidence that Osama's crew did 9/11, nevermind the Taliban, only what the US gummint DEMANDED it's serfs believe, and then they cover up their treachery by putting on a dog and pony show called the "9/11 Commission". I'd say Tillman, however brave he was, sadly died in vain for a corrupt and disgraceful government.
2004-04-26 17:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]"There should be a law, if you support a war, if you think it's worth the price, that's fine, but you have to put your own precious fluids on the line. You have to head for the front and hook up with an infantry unit and help spill the blood." The day that happens is the day warfare ends forever. - Tim O'Brien, author, "The Things They Carried" [/QUOTE]I found Tim O'Brien's novels to be truly evocative of Vietnam, but I think he stretches the point in your quotation. Exposure to the dangers of being killed focuses the mind quickly and strongly, but, believe it or not, there are some who would rather fight than copulate.
I believe what he wrote is true for a Lyndon Johnson or Robert McNamara if they had to lay their life on the line. But wars are not decided by the young. Robert McNamara made sure his son was not exposed to the dangers of confronting the NVA.
2004-04-26 18:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=edward gibbon]I found Tim O'Brien's novels to be truly evocative of Vietnam, but I think he stretches the point in your quotation. Exposure to the dangers of being killed focuses the mind quickly and strongly, but, believe it or not, there are some who would rather fight than copulate.
I believe what he wrote is true for a Lyndon Johnson or Robert McNamara if they had to lay their life on the line. But wars are not decided by the young. Robert McNamara made sure his son was not exposed to the dangers of confronting the NVA.[/QUOTE]
Edward, I understand your point. I used that quote from Mr O'Brien specifically to condemn all the current "chickenhawks" like Sean Hannity and his Freeper crowd for ululating to no end to "kill all the ragheads" in Iraq. If there was a law, like O'Brien suggests, then these Hannitized arm-chair warriors would be as pacific as a lobotomized goat and would shelve their internet bellicosity in a hurry. However, unlike Hannity, Mr Tillman put his fluids on the line and suffered a puncture, losing those fluids. He exhibited much bravery, but like I said earlier, I feel he did so, sadly, in vain. No US Soldier strong enough to join military service in the first place, should then be forced to fight and kill an enemy, or be killed by an enemy, for the benefit of a foreign nation. It's so fking senseless it makes me sick.
2004-04-26 21:36 | User Profile
People such as yourself set such high standards or demands before you would deem any conflict worthy of your exposure to danger.
What in the h-e-double hockey sticks is wrong with that? Granted, some people would "condition" themselves out of any danger greater than a hangnail, but I wish more people would question exactly what they're signing up to die for before they go get maimed and killed, then it would be a lot harder for demagogues to promote the wars they so studiously avoid.
The White race has left the best of itself splattered all over the battlefields of the 20th century, leaving behind the ne'er-do-wells to breed and the 21st is not shaping up any differently.
To quote Wille of Wille and Joe fame, "The hell this isn't the most improtant hole in the world: I'm in it."
You only get one go around here, so I would in fact think long and hard before putting my fragile spleen in the path of an RPG, thank you. However, I don't spite those who do so without hesitation.
The Jews will fight the Arabs to the last American. I'd rather they fight to the last Jew, myself.
P.S. Mr. Earley, I've read your book and what I got from it is that you'd have to be half crazy to sign up and fight for all the scoundrels who've pushed from the rear during all of America's wars. That's not to take away from the guts of those who do and did, but I can think of darn few wars in the nation's history that were actually based on defending the homeland. This latest seems designed to make the country less safe, judging by the hornet's nest we're stirring up, combined with the governement's refusal to actually do its Constitutional duty and enforce our borders and sovereignty.
2004-04-26 22:05 | User Profile
The war is here and now, not halfway around the globe. Going to a publically-approved war and getting yourself offed is much easier than the tedious and mundane work of a thoughtcriminal enemy of ZOG. It's back to the basics now: your family, your friends and your people.
2004-04-27 01:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=edward gibbon]Angler, much as the now departed NeoNietzsche, professes to know so much about weapons, except what to do if somebody else has one. If someone has a weapon and is shooting it in my direction, I'd be a lot more afraid NOT to shoot back than to pick up a weapon and defend myself. And guess what? It doesn't take an expert in weapons to understand that the US military is better-equipped than the Taliban or the Iraqis. Or maybe you can descend from your place on Mt. Olympus and tell all us lowly, unworthy, non-military folks why GI Joe is sooo much braver than the Iraqis or the Afghanis who are fighting the most high-tech military in the world. Well? How 'bout it?
Tillman could not possibly measure up to your standards, now could he? People such as yourself set such high standards or demands before you would deem any conflict worthy of your exposure to danger. Where did I set "high standards" for anyone? I simply said that it takes more courage to fight against helicopter gunships and daisy-cutters than against a ragged bunch of militants. Are you denying that to be the case?
As for what it would take for me to join the US military and fight, the answer is simple: a genuine threat to the US, plus the knowledge that I wouldn't be called upon to break my solemn oath to protect and defend the Constitution by fighting in an unconstitutional war. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect people to honor their promises, and those who cannot keep their promises should not make any. I have no interest in stubbing my toe, let alone giving my life, in service to the Jews who run the US today.
Many on this board are such. Smirking gutless taunts are becoming more commonplace from many respondents, most especially those whom I suspect would lose control of their bowels if confronted with real danger. Like most "only-the-military-faces-danger" dingbats, you're talking straight through your rectum about people that you don't know jack-sh!t about. I was once assaulted with clubs by multiple opponents when I was unarmed. I had bones broken, but I never lost control of my bladder or bowels, and despite the fact that the attack came without warning, I even had the presence of mind to defend myself by warding off blows aimed at my skull. I'd like to see you in that situation, tough guy. And besides, I didn't say that Tillman never saw danger -- hey, he got shot, so he must've been in some danger, right? What I said was that it takes more...never mind, I'm getting tired of repeating myself.
You deny manliness and courage to those who show more balls than you. You are a contemptible wretch.[/QUOTE]LOL! Yeah, you're showing all kinds of "balls" with your cyberspace insults. G'night, princess.
2004-04-27 02:56 | User Profile
Howard Dean was electronically eliminated from being front runner when he said he would pursue a " more even handed " policy concerning the land now called Israel. What does that tell you about Amerika ?
Eliminate the mistake that is modern day Israel, an abomination in the eyes of YHWH, and perhaps we can can have peace in this world for generations to come. Simply wiping out the HATE STATE will do wonders. I fully feel in brotherhood with all the Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia, America the USA today is a GODLESS IMMORAL EMPIRE. If I lived there I would die to the lasst strand to protect my homeland from the sinful invaders !! And I am Catholic !!! Die Americans !!! Die !!!!!! I am totally ashamed to be an American, and I don't even consider myself one anymore. Life is larger than the stars and stripes, larger and more meaningful than incoherent notions....the actions of this country are so abhorrent that I believe we need another wake up call, perhaps that will stir up the football morons and give us the Constitution back, but the way things are going it's going to take over 10 million dead. American A*SHOLES.
2004-05-01 19:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MadScienceType].
P.S. Mr. Earley, I've read your book and what I got from it is that you'd have to be half crazy to sign up and fight for all the scoundrels who've pushed from the rear during all of America's wars. That's not to take away from the guts of those who do and did, but I can think of darn few wars in the nation's history that were actually based on defending the homeland. This latest seems designed to make the country less safe, judging by the hornet's nest we're stirring up, combined with the governement's refusal to actually do its Constitutional duty and enforce our borders and sovereignty.[/QUOTE]All wars are fought over power and money. I agree that the pretext for going into Iraq was a great lie, but Afghanistan was, and is, different.
As late as 1991 the United States could have taken a neutral position in the Israeli/Arab conflict. To our great sorrow James Baker and Bush the elder did not have the balls to challenge the Jewish lobby. My remarks about American professed nobility have long been uttered by foreigners from Clemenceau to Chou En Lai.
2004-05-01 19:24 | User Profile
[B]Angler[/B] [QUOTE]Or maybe you can descend from your place on Mt. Olympus and tell all us lowly, unworthy, non-military folks why GI Joe is sooo much braver than the Iraqis or the Afghanis who are fighting the most high-tech military in the world. Well? How 'bout it?[/QUOTE] If two brave people fight, one is most likely to be wounded or die. That is the nature of war. I choose to root for my tribe.[QUOTE]Where did I set "high standards" for anyone? I simply said that it takes more courage to fight against helicopter gunships and daisy-cutters than against a ragged bunch of militants. Are you denying that to be the case?[/QUOTE] Ground troops "fight" very little against daisy cutters, and although it may be possible for many to engage a gunship, many will die. [QUOTE]Like most "only-the-military-faces-danger" dingbats, you're talking straight through your rectum about people that you don't know jack-sh!t about. I was once assaulted with clubs by multiple opponents when I was unarmed. I had bones broken, but I never lost control of my bladder or bowels, and despite the fact that the attack came without warning, I even had the presence of mind to defend myself by warding off blows aimed at my skull. I'd like to see you in that situation, tough guy. And besides, I didn't say that Tillman never saw danger -- hey, he got shot, so he must've been in some danger, right? What I said was that it takes more...never mind, I'm getting tired of repeating myself.[/QUOTE] I must take your word for the above. I now see why you need a helmet. For the next attack and your next game of paint-ball. [QUOTE]LOL! Yeah, you're showing all kinds of "balls" with your cyberspace insults. G'night, princess.[/QUOTE] Well you know what I look like. If ever at a David Irving conference or somewhere I may be, please feel free to engage me. In the mean time, please practice your drills in getting your helmet on and shooting paint balls. And yes I think you are putting on a macho act.
2004-05-02 09:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=edward gibbon][B]Angler[/B] If two brave people fight, one is most likely to be wounded or die. That is the nature of war. I choose to root for my tribe. What "tribe" would that be? Or what do you think the US military is fighting for? Let me guess..."freedom," right?
Ground troops "fight" very little against daisy cutters, and although it may be possible for many to engage a gunship, many will die. That reinforces the point I was making earlier. The US military has all kinds of high-tech killing machines available for the support of its ground troops. If US infantry get in a tight spot, they can simply call in air support, and the "heroes" in the choppers or jets can come in and rain death and destruction on the opposing forces using the convenient point-and-click interfaces in their cockpits. Their opponents in Afghanistan and Iraq have no such luxuries. This is simply stating the facts, yet you seem to have been offended by it.
I must take your word for the above. I now see why you need a helmet. For the next attack and your next game of paint-ball. You don't have to take my word for anything, although the incident I related above is 100% factual. If you wish to believe that I made it up, that's your prerogative.
FYI, I do not play paintball (apart from a couple of times many years ago) or own any paintball equipment. I don't even have a set of cammies. I do own a ballistic helmet and body armor. Why? Because I think all US citizens should own ballistic armor, just as I think all US citizens should own combat-worthy firearms. Maybe you think that only "professionals" have a need for such items. If so, then the Clintons, Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, and Dianne Feinstein would certainly agree with you.
Well you know what I look like. If ever at a David Irving conference or somewhere I may be, please feel free to engage me. Thanks for the invitation, but I took a look at your web site, and I have no intention of "engaging" someone who's at least twice my age and maybe three-quarters my size. If you want to pick fights, go to a bar or a pool hall and prove your mettle there.
In the mean time, please practice your drills in getting your helmet on and shooting paint balls. See note above.
And yes I think you are putting on a macho act.[/QUOTE]I don't think I'm acting "macho" at all -- at least not to the extent where I'm picking fights with unknown people over the Internet, as you are. I simply expressed my views honestly, just as I always do.
If you want to glorify anyone in the US military who gets killed in combat as a "hero," that's your choice. Just remember that the Jews do the very same thing, since it's a cheap and highly effective way to lure the next batch of young recruits into becoming a part of the ZOG war machine and risking their lives for Jewish interests.
2004-05-02 10:18 | User Profile
In case this article by a retired Air Force Colonel pilot, has not been seen by every one here at the O.D. forum, here it is. I can only pray more will join him in speaking or standing up. So that what free speech we have left to politically resist/dissent against the treason against U.S., along with open borders and so many other forms tyranny against our "Nation" we have been subjected to, can be reversed before there is 0 chance, for a political solution and reversial. [url]http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.html[/url]
2004-05-02 17:30 | User Profile
Obviously, Pat Tillman had courage but what I think Edward Gibbon is trying to get at is he also had [I]selflessness[/I], a fast-fading - and unquestionable - virtue. There are a lot of crazy-brave, steroid-pumped mesomorphs in pro sports but I don't see too many in fatigues.
But I see the other points just as clearly. What we as a nation are in desperately short supply of is [I]intellectual courage[/I], the kind that cuts through treacle and sophistry; the kind that risks earning powerful enemies and drawing catcalls from the crowd. The tragedy of this current debacle is that every time a Pat Tillman dies, a Bill Kristol cashes in.
Once upon a time Americans naturally sided with the little guy being pushed around by the huge bully, and there can't be any question that the Arab resistance is the 'little guy' here. A third-world backwater violently resisting invasion and military occupation by a foreign superpower may not be practical or intelligent, but it [I]is [/I] courageous - not even Ed Gibbon would argue that point.
I just don't see what choice the Arabs have here. We are - slowly but surely - delivering the Arab world to Jewish overseers for their eventual emasculation, subjugation and extermination. The enemy of my enemy may not exactly be my friend, but [I]these [/I] days, it's Amerikwa - her stewards and their "friends" - who give me the greatest pause.
PS: outside of Week 1 of this coming NFL season - and the Bush re-election campaign, natch - I don't think you'll see Pat Tillman showing up on the radar for too long. As a white male, and an unapologetic one, he's bound to send the wrong message to the feminized masses who really feel much more comfortable supporting the Fight for Freedom if they can picture the troops as seen on tv: a gaggle of racism-suffering blacks, noble family-values Latinos and blonde GI Janes who fight like cornered ninjas.