← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Centinel
Thread ID: 13216 | Posts: 15 | Started: 2004-04-17
2004-04-17 05:12 | User Profile
The ELCA slides further into apostasy....I can't believe the Missouri Synod still does joint projects with these people (Lutheran World Relief, Wheatridge Ministries, etc.)
[url]http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/8438757.htm[/url]
Posted on Thu, Apr. 15, 2004
Defiant Lutheran congregations appoint active gay pastors
Associated Press
SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. - In defiance of Lutheran doctrine, active homosexuals have been appointed pastors at three congregations, including one in Minneapolis.
The Rev. Jennifer Mason, 41, will be installed Sunday at Central City Lutheran Mission in San Bernardino, followed on May 2 with Hollywood Lutheran Church's installation of the Rev. Daniel M. Hooper, 56, and ceremonies July 25 for the Rev. Jay Wiesner, 30, at Bethany Lutheran Church in Minneapolis.
The move defies the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America's rule against active homosexuals in ordained ministry.
As the nation's fifth-largest Protestant denomination, with 10,700 churches and five million members, the Evangelical Lutheran Church ordains gays but requires them to be celibate.
The Hollywood and San Bernardino churches would be Southern California's first Evangelical Lutheran bodies to call an openly gay man or lesbian as a pastor.
Bishop Murray D. Finck of the Lutheran Church's Pacific Synod, which includes San Bernardino, said he was surprised by Central City Lutheran's decision to call Mason as associate pastor. He urged the church to reconsider.
Hooper and Mason were duly ordained as ministers in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. But they were later removed from the official church clergy roster when the church was informed they were in committed same-sex relationships.
"There are two different kinds of religion under the same denominational banners," the Rev. Christopher Hershman, president of Allentown, Pa.-based Evangelical Lutheran Confessing Fellowship said Wednesday.
"One says what the churches taught for the last 2,000 years. The other approach says the Bible was a witness at its time, and people have moved beyond that to a higher sense of enlightenment," Hershman said.
The Rev. Steven Benson, pastor of Bethany Lutheran Church, said emotions are running high about the situation.
"The possibilities of deep division, and perhaps even schism, are there," he said.
A decade ago, the denomination expelled two churches in San Francisco for appointing clergy who were living in same-sex relationships. Since then, more than a dozen other churches in the denomination have appointed non-celibate gay men and lesbians as pastors, but the denomination has not tried to expel any additional churches.
2004-04-17 07:45 | User Profile
"and ceremonies July 25 for the Rev. Jay Wiesner"
2004-04-17 13:38 | User Profile
Suggested Topic for the next General Session of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America -- Where are we going? And why are we in this handbasket?
2004-04-18 07:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Centinel]The ELCA slides further into apostasy....I can't believe the Missouri Synod still does joint projects with these people (Lutheran World Relief, Wheatridge Ministries, etc.)[/QUOTE]
Give you the warm fuzzies, don't it Centinel? :angry:
What's your opinion on supporting Thrivent, since they also fund various ELCA projects? I've asked my pastor this same question, but he hasn't yet replied.
2004-04-18 09:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]"and ceremonies July 25 for the Rev. Jay Wiesner"[/QUOTE]
Good eye! Its depressing enough to see Jewish fags being appointed "Christian" ministers as an Agnostic; as devout Christians, this must be tough for some of you to bear....
2004-04-18 19:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]What's your opinion on supporting Thrivent, since they also fund various ELCA projects? I've asked my pastor this same question, but he hasn't yet replied.[/QUOTE]
I believe that confessional Lutherans should have nothing to do with Thrivent. Unfortunately, even the "conservative" Missouri and Wisconsin Synods don't seem to have a problem with Thrivent and unionism with apostates. You have to go further to the right into the CoLC or LCR to find a Lutheran body that holds my views.
2004-04-18 20:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Centinel]I believe that confessional Lutherans should have nothing to do with Thrivent. Unfortunately, even the "conservative" Missouri and Wisconsin Synods don't seem to have a problem with Thrivent and unionism with apostates.[/QUOTE]
What of the counter argument that says one is going to spend investment/financial dollars somewhere, why not with an organization that at the very least does some good as opposed to giving those same dollars to other secular companies which are more than likely quite anti-Christian? Aren't you cutting your nose off to spite your face?
2004-04-18 20:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]What of the counter argument that says one is going to spend investment/financial dollars somewhere, why not with an organization that at the very least does some good as opposed to giving those same dollars to other secular companies which are more than likely quite anti-Christian? Aren't you cutting your nose off to spite your face?[/QUOTE]
I would say nobody expects "Christian-like" conduct from secular financial institutions...certainly not helping churches whether they are based on sound doctrine or otherwise. It's a what-you-see-is-what-you-get operation.
With Thrivent, however, people are thinking they're "keeping it in the family."
"And we are confronted today in our day with darkness. And the darkness doesn't come so much from secular society as it comes from religious society. The greatess darkness of our day comes from darkened men who are blind leaders of the blind."
--Ian R.K. Paisley, [url=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=6863]Fundamentalism vs. Apostasy[/url] (March 1, 1969)
2004-04-20 04:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Centinel]The ELCA slides further into apostasy....I can't believe the Missouri Synod still does joint projects with these people (Lutheran World Relief, Wheatridge Ministries, etc.)
[url]http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/8438757.htm[/url]
Posted on Thu, Apr. 15, 2004
Defiant Lutheran congregations appoint active gay pastors [/QUOTE]
What's going on with this sodomite situation in the protestant churches? Can someone tell me why these people aren't excommunicated?
2004-04-23 21:15 | User Profile
These are isolated incidents and hopefully these freaks will be shown the exit door. The situation in the Catholic Church is by far more tragic and disgusting.
2004-04-23 21:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]These are isolated incidents and hopefully these freaks will be shown the exit door. The situation in the Catholic Church is by far more tragic and disgusting.[/QUOTE]
From a confessional (conservative) Lutheran perspective, I don't find news like this in the liberal/apostate ELCA (or any other NCC member) the least bit surprising.
Think of the Democrat Party at prayer, and you'll be pretty close to the mark.
2004-04-23 21:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Centinel]From a confessional (conservative) Lutheran perspective, I don't find news like this in the liberal/apostate ELCA (or any other NCC member) the least bit surprising.[/QUOTE]
Let us pray that come July 10th, the LCMS will issue a clarion call to stay true and return where necessary to the pure Gospel of the Reformation and Luther.
Sola Scriptura! Sola Fide! Sola Gratia! Solo Christo!
2004-04-23 22:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]These are isolated incidents and hopefully these freaks will be shown the exit door. The situation in the Catholic Church is by far more tragic and disgusting.[/QUOTE]
At least the Catholics are slowly making an effort. At least they appear to be trying to stand firm on some issues. I saw today that the Vatican is now encouraging that politicians who support abortion be denied Sacraments.
BTW, I haven't heard anything much that the Episcopals are doing about that unspeakable sodomite bishop. I know some conservative Episcopals had a meeting, but what else? I don't understand this all this hand wringing and hesitancy.
2004-04-23 23:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill]BTW, I haven't heard anything much that the Episcopals are doing about that unspeakable sodomite bishop. I know some conservative Episcopals had a meeting, but what else? I don't understand this all this hand wringing and hesitancy.[/QUOTE]
My guess is that what conservative Episcopalians there were have defected to the Anglican Mission in America or the Reformed Episcopal Church. I have heard of some checking out confessional Lutheranism and even Roman Catholicism as well.
2004-04-24 00:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Centinel]My guess is that what conservative Episcopalians there were have defected to the Anglican Mission in America or the Reformed Episcopal Church. I have heard of some checking out confessional Lutheranism and even Roman Catholicism as well.[/QUOTE]
Some have even converted to Orthodoxy, but I am still surprised by the vagueness of their reaction to this obvious and hideous apostasy.
My suspicion is the Episcopal hierarchy is already loaded with sodomites abd pro-sodomites, who see the denomination as a vehicle for their sick agenda. Win or lose, the queers win. If the conservatives split, then the queers essentially get their own denomination. If the conservatives stay, then the queers will be in the driver's seat of the whole denomination.
This is why toleration of even the beginnings of this kind of crap is dangerous. I like how Saint Nicholas dealt with apostates centuries ago. He punched them out in public.