← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · heritagelost
Thread ID: 13149 | Posts: 18 | Started: 2004-04-12
2004-04-12 21:05 | User Profile
In the past week the media has reported that one Apache was downed, possibly by a shoulder fired missle. One tank as well as other vehicles in Fallujah. One tank in Bagdad. Several US tankers and other vehicles around the country have also been destroyed.
There may very well be more choppers and tanks destroyed, but the Pentagon has not given out the details. If it wasn't for the fact that the AP picked up pics of both destroyed tanks, we probably never would have heard about it.
Now, on the other side, the Americans have destroyed lots of piece of shit 1978 rebuilt Toyota Pickups and some giant bright yellow school buses.
Iraqi Riff Raff with sand filled Kalashnikovs, and 30 year old RPGs. 3 Tanks, 1 Gunship Destroyed.
Worlds' most technologically advanced sophisticated military in the world. No tanks, no gun ships.
Well, the Iraqis must be kicking some real ass over there.
2004-04-12 22:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE]In the past week the media has reported that one Apache was downed, possibly by a shoulder fired missle. One tank as well as other vehicles in Fallujah. One tank in Bagdad. Several US tankers and other vehicles around the country have also been destroyed.
There may very well be more choppers and tanks destroyed, but the Pentagon has not given out the details. If it wasn't for the fact that the AP picked up pics of both destroyed tanks, we probably never would have heard about it.
Now, on the other side, [COLOR=Red]the Americans have destroyed lots of piece of shit 1978 rebuilt Toyota Pickups and some giant bright yellow school buses.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red]Iraqi Riff Raff with sand filled Kalashnikovs, and 30 year old RPGs. 3 Tanks, 1 Gunship Destroyed.
Worlds' most technologically advanced sophisticated military in the world. No tanks, no gun ships.[/COLOR] Well, the Iraqis must be kicking some real ass over there.[/QUOTE]When I read snide posts as this one is I wonder if this board could possibly influence many lurkers to come to our cause. Not one person on this board has any idea as to how many Iraqis have been killed or "neutralized". The soldiers and marines serving in Iraq are generally not from the more affluent or powerful classes, and many, to include many on this board, do not regard their deaths as important or meaningful. I differ though I thought, and still think, this war was a mistake.
Internet tough-guys and commandos such as [B]heritagelost, [COLOR=Red]birdbrain[/COLOR] ruffin[/B] and many others may have a great problem controlling the sphincter muscle if challenged. We should not be surprised why our beliefs do not receive more sympathy from those supplying the bodies.
2004-04-12 22:22 | User Profile
Ed, I read about two weeks ago, something very sad, and after I read the story it seems to have dissappeared.. First I read one day how eight tanks and 12 men were killed at a location in Iraq, I was amazed by reading the 8 tanks were taken out, then I read they were attacked by accident by a U.S. A-10. Are you aware of this?
2004-04-13 00:05 | User Profile
[url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040412/481/jbm10704121629[/url]
[url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040412/481/jbm10304122048&e=3&ncid=[/url]
If you click through this AP photo gallery, there are several pics of US forces conducting house to house searches.
2004-04-13 13:37 | User Profile
The Americans are killing Iraqi women, children and elderly in an illegal, disgusting, and useless war. That qualifies as mass murder. There's going to be Hell to pay for that Unholiest of Sins.
[QUOTE]The top U.S. military spokesman said about 70 Americans and 700 insurgents had been killed this month, the bloodiest since the fall of Baghdad a year ago with U.S.-led forces fighting on three fronts: against Sunni insurgents in Fallujah, Shiite militiamen in the south and gunmen in Baghdad and on its outskirts.
More than 600 Iraqis have been killed in Fallujah since the siege began on April 5, said the head of the city hospital, Rafie al-Issawi. [COLOR=DarkRed][B]Most of the dead registered at hospitals and clinics were women, children and elderly, he said.[/B][/COLOR]
[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4667742/[/url][/QUOTE]
Here, an very insightful article from Michael Peirce, from his friend who's in Iraq now.... [url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/peirce/peirce73.html[/url]
US Troops Killing Civilians: [url]http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jamail.php?articleid=2303[/url]
2004-04-13 17:27 | User Profile
It does seem a little unreal. A bunch of ragtag Arab guys with no body armour and no major weaponry taking on a trillion-dollar military superpower and bloodying them. I will grant Edward Gibbon's point about the U.S. inflicting majorly disproportionate death on the insurgents, but the U.S. military kill ratio against Iraqi insurgents is well below the kill ratio in Vietnam (in some Vietnam battles, according to David Hackworth, there were 1200 to 0 kill ratios!).
The real villian is the neo-con god Ronald Reagan, who spent trillions supplying us with nuclear subs, carrier fleets, new generation flighter jets, et al. All these things we could not use against an enemy we could go to war with. And those enemies we could use them against, e.g., in sea battles, air wars, etc., have enough nukes to destroy the globe a thousand times over. I.e., if we ever did use these Reagan military weapons it would simply be the prelude to a nuclear holocaust.
2004-04-13 18:12 | User Profile
These Iraqi fighters are fighting for their [I]freedom[/I] (how ironic) from American and Zionist domination. They, and the rest of the world, know that American slogans of "liberation" and "sovereignty" are completely bogus and nothing but Trojan Horses in order to subjugate the Iraqi people and steal oil while taking away Iraqi rights to own guns. IMO, while I think American soldiers are brave, if they had a real choice, they would not be in Iraq risking life and limb for some abstract ideal for the benefit of a foreign people whom they didn't even know existed, nor cared about, before the war. This nagging question is to the American's disadvantage, posing moral questions and doubts in his own mind. OTOH, the Iraqi resistance is more brave for resisting unwarranted foreign occupation and subjugation. They are "in the right" and therefore they are a totally fearless force, unafraid of death, with their soil to defend and a moral advantage clearly in mind. The harder you hit them, the harder they come at you. That blows away the Freeper/Neocon mantra that "they only respond to force"...which is a fallacy. We've created Uber-Rambos in Iraq.
2004-04-14 21:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=edward gibbon] Internet tough-guys and commandos such as [B]heritagelost, [COLOR=Red]birdbrain[/COLOR] ruffin[/B] and many others may have a great problem controlling the sphincter muscle if challenged. We should not be surprised why our beliefs do not receive more sympathy from those supplying the bodies.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I can't figure out what the hell you are talking about?!?!?!
A family in Columbus I have been friends with for years lost a son in Iraq. So I know first hand what the cost to America is. Also, this entire family has the same political views as I do.
Your comments about me are infantile and meaningless. Try and show some class.
2004-04-14 23:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE][B]Jack Cassidy [/B] It does seem a little unreal. A bunch of ragtag Arab guys with no body armour and no major weaponry taking on a trillion-dollar military superpower and bloodying them. [COLOR=Red]I will grant Edward Gibbon's point about the U.S. inflicting majorly disproportionate death on the insurgents, but the U.S. military kill ratio against Iraqi insurgents is well below the kill ratio in Vietnam (in some Vietnam battles, according to David Hackworth, there were 1200 to 0 kill ratios!). [/COLOR] [/QUOTE]Along with everyone else on the board I have very little idea about what is really happening in Iraq. When the invasion of Iraq was launched, there were only [B]two (2!)[/B] people on the board, Ed Toner and myself, who thought the was going relatively easy for the United States. All others, almost gleefully, wrote of the United States suffering great losses.
Both Ed Toner and myself are older than the rest for the most part and have gone to war. Both have a jaundiced eye about the American media. I have read much of Hackworth, but have great difficulty remembering where he made such a claim on such a scale.
2004-04-14 23:42 | User Profile
[B]heritagelost[/B] originally wrote: [QUOTE][COLOR=Red]Now, on the other side, the Americans have destroyed lots of piece of shit 1978 rebuilt Toyota Pickups and some giant bright yellow school buses.
Iraqi Riff Raff with sand filled Kalashnikovs, and 30 year old RPGs. 3 Tanks, 1 Gunship Destroyed.
Worlds' most technologically advanced sophisticated military in the world. No tanks, no gun ships.
Well, the Iraqis must be kicking some real ass over there. [/COLOR] [/QUOTE]Then this was followed with these thoughts: [QUOTE]Honestly I can't figure out what the hell you are talking about?!?!?!
A family in Columbus I have been friends with for years lost a son in Iraq. So I know first hand what the cost to America is. Also, this entire family has the same political views as I do.
Your comments about me are infantile and meaningless. Try and show some class[/QUOTE]I called you an internet tough guy or an internet commando. As ever, I showed class. Your remarks were snide. I cannot see a lurker with family or friends in Iraq being impressed with your anguish. My remarks stand.
2004-04-15 02:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=edward gibbon]Along with everyone else on the board I have very little idea about what is really happening in Iraq. When the invasion of Iraq was launched, there were only two (2!) people on the board, Ed Toner and myself, who thought the was going relatively easy for the United States. All others, almost gleefully, wrote of the United States suffering great losses.
Both Ed Toner and myself are older than the rest for the most part and have gone to war. Both have a jaundiced eye about the American media. I have read much of Hackworth, but have great difficulty remembering where he made such a claim on such a scale.[/QUOTE] With all due respect I don't consider some flyboys having been "to war".
As for Hack's reference, well, re-read [u]Steel My Soldiers' Hearts:The Hopeless to HardcoreTransformation of U.S. Army, 4th Battalion, 39th Infantry, [/u] [u]Vietnam[/u].
I'm afraid some of the people at the Pentagon making decisions think like you and Ed Toner. This Iraq war cannot be won. It will rip the last threads of this country apart if we cannot hand this off to Sistani and bolt by July. Or this war will cost $1 trillion and the lives of 100k Americans (2000k from attacks and 98,000k from a WMD strike on the Green Zone). And yes, I do think a WMD strike on the Green Zone is a 50/50 possibility. And I have good track record predicting events. On September 8th, 2001 (a warm Saturday night here in D.C.) I spent hours telling (educating) an aide to a prominent U.S. Senator about the extreme danger to the U.S. from jihadists, and gave her print-outs from the Islamist forum at the qoqaz.net website (madrussian will recognize this-- Hello MR. Kenneth?)
2004-04-15 14:05 | User Profile
Have you ever heard of a PARODY?!?!?
[QUOTE=edward gibbon][B]heritagelost[/B] originally wrote: Then this was followed with these thoughts: I called you an internet tough guy or an internet commando. As ever, I showed class. Your remarks were snide. I cannot see a lurker with family or friends in Iraq being impressed with your anguish. My remarks stand.[/QUOTE]
2004-04-15 17:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Jack Cassidy][COLOR=Red]With all due respect I don't consider some flyboys having been "to war". [/COLOR]
As for Hack's reference, well, re-read [u]Steel My Soldiers' Hearts:The Hopeless to HardcoreTransformation of U.S. Army, 4th Battalion, 39th Infantry, [/u]
[u]Vietnam[/u].
I'm afraid some of the people at the Pentagon making decisions think like you and Ed Toner. This Iraq war cannot be won. It will rip the last threads of this country apart if we cannot hand this off to Sistani and bolt by July. Or this war will cost $1 trillion and the lives of 100k Americans (2000k from attacks and 98,000k from a WMD strike on the Green Zone). And yes, I do think a WMD strike on the Green Zone is a 50/50 possibility. And I have good track record predicting events. On September 8th, 2001 (a warm Saturday night here in D.C.) I spent hours telling (educating) an aide to a prominent U.S. Senator about the extreme danger to the U.S. from jihadists, and gave her print-outs from the Islamist forum at the qoqaz.net website (madrussian will recognize this-- Hello MR. Kenneth?)[/QUOTE]I flew very, very seldom in helicopters. My feet still hurt thinking about walking.
I do not think having been to war is the sole criterion for deciding if an individual is qualified in commiting a nation to war. But it does lead towards some hesitance and desire to have the populace make the necessary commitment.
Many people in this country believe that we are entitled to the oil in the Middle East. I differ. With oil priced in Euro's and a severe hike in price the United States may be in deep economic problems as we have very little to sell that cannot be bought elsewhere. Some on this board may relish this prospect, but I suspect our side is still weak nationally.
Hackworth has called the 10th Mountain Division, the predecessor of Special Forces, the best trained American Division of World War II. Yet this division landed in Italy in January 1945 and lost comparatively little, less than a thousand dead. Previously in the Aleutian Islands this division cleared Kiska (?) while losing only 24 or 25 men dead as quoted in official army statistics. Yet not one - repeat, [COLOR=Red]not one [/COLOR] - Japanese was on the island. Friendly fire obviously caused their casualties.
2004-04-15 17:38 | User Profile
I am with xmetalhead and Jack Cassidy on this,,,,,, this is a loosing war and we have no business being in Iraq, unless it is to "protect" the Zionist State of Israel.
I served in Nam and took "vacations" in Cuba, The Congo, Rhodesia, Nicaragua and a couple of more places therefore I should know when something is wrong with a war and this war is a very stupid war.
We are trying to "inpose" our stile of freedom on people who have around longer than we have and used to live in palaces while we lived in caves.
We should have learned our lesson from Nam and know by now that super weapons doesn't work when trying to take the land from those who already live there and are defending their land ,,,,,, like the Zionist Jews are doing in Palestine.
2004-04-15 18:35 | User Profile
Why won't they embrace our efforts to give them peace and democrazy now? The absence of "rape-rooms" as Bush so poetically called it on the eve of invasion.
Here's a little conspiracy-theory for those of ya'll who kinda' like those:
The Iraq war is and has from the start been filled with such enourmous amounts of untalented efforts. One has to ask onself the question of whether or not the whole thing actually could have been handled any worse?
It was obvious from the beginning that this was going to be one odd show. Could somebody please phone up the psy-war department of the US army and just tell the people in that department to just jump out of the window? What has been happening, how could this be possible?
The US has portrayed itself as the joke of the world. Superpower, really? It is wery much as if there is something inside the US (war) machine who is deliberately sabotaging the efforts made..
Now what can this be?
The only thing that comes to mind is the mad and influential Jew arabs, who through their bankier buisniss has become aware of how the world only ever has had one superpower, the Chinese. And that they're marchin' in.
So the Jew, with his predictable logic, wipes the blood from the dead Arian virgin from his mouth, and the white powder from his big nose, and he does the only thing his nature allows him to do..
By collapsing the US he belives he'll take control (total) of the country and force it to sacrifice itself in a war against Arabs and all (not few!) other enemies the Jews has made over the years.
Finally the contest for eternal universal world domination will be against the Chinese. The Jew only feels he can win this one by a joint effort between NATO forces and the evil masterminding Jewish inteligensia giving the orders. And even then the chances might seem pretty slim..
Anecdote: In George Orwells book 1984 a rebel named Emmanuel Goldstein and his rebel book are central. The thing might remind one of how Jesus was portrayed as rebelling towards the Jewish. And how Jesus went on to be the European religion, apart from the Jewish, kind of evolved.. Still, the Bible can be seen as a Trojan horse, only serving the Jevish agenda. Making the host population weak and receptive to the "spiritual". The ideal is the lamb.. Not for long, cause there won't be none left..
Anyway, did'ent McVeigh return from Iraq totally disillusioned back in the day? Good luck with the ones coming back now! America is great, get a ****ing helmet!
2004-04-15 23:23 | User Profile
[B]Kosmos Luftwaffe[/B][QUOTE]The only thing that comes to mind is the mad and influential Jew arabs, who through their bankier buisniss has become aware of how the world only ever has had one superpower, the Chinese. And that they're marchin' in...
Finally the contest for eternal universal world domination will be against the Chinese. The Jew only feels he can win this one by a joint effort between NATO forces and the evil masterminding Jewish inteligensia giving the orders. And even then the chances might seem pretty slim..[/QUOTE]I quite agree that the great winner will be China. We have yet to realize the position they will have in a few years. The American media as ever myopically focus on Israel.
2004-04-16 14:04 | User Profile
What do you all think of Tom Chittum's take on the military situation in Iraq, entitled [URL=http://www.firebaseskull.com/Column-32.html]They're All Going to Die[/URL]? I paste it below. I suspect that he has it pretty well scoped out, but I'm no military expert and will leave it to my more learned colleagues here to set me straight on that.
Nobody wants to see our guys die, but it's one of those things that's going to happen and indeed it has to happen if the Empire is going to die. And the Empire's death is the price of the Republic's survival. To repeat: this train has left the station and there's nothing we can do to stop it, but we can hopefully steer it with a great deal of effort. The more Americans internalize the cost of their Evil Empire, the more they'll be willing to listen to our message. As it is, we're all on the outs - every one of us, despite any other accomplishment in our lives, is automatically deemed a loser for holding nationalist views in the Sheeple's collective brain. The only way we'll ever get over the effects of decades of massive brainwashing is for a cataclysm to occur that this war might just bring on.
So, I say bring it on. It's like painful cancer treatment. Nobody likes it, but what other realistic choice do we have but to endure the cure?
Walter
They're All Going to Die - Part 1
by Thomas W. Chittum, April 11, 2004
Comrade peasants, I present you with the obituary of our Glorious Imperial legions in Iraq. The following is from an establishment newspaper, the Australian.
"INSURGENTS attacked a US fuel convoy west of Baghdad yesterday, killing at least nine people ... .The convoy was attacked at Abu Gharib, 15km west of Baghdad, where the insurgents seized control of the highway linking the capital to the Sunni stronghold of Fallujah ... . Hundreds of militants armed with rocket-propelled grenades and Kalashnikov assault rifles were running along the highway or hiding in houses nearby. One Iraqi was seen beating a dead body thrown from the wreck of the convoy."
These swarming attacks are going on all over Iraq. Be advised that Lord Bremer must solve these hassles or ... BAWK! BAWK! BAWK! ... the Iraq Resistance will totally defeat and rout our Glorious Imperial Legions in Iraq within a year. You heard me right. Iââ¬â¢m saying that all 100,000 plus of our troops in Iraq will be stone-cold dead or captured or routed within one year, and this total collapse and rout could easily happen within the next thirty days. Anybody who says Iraq is a Vietnam-style quagmire hasnââ¬â¢t been paying attention. Iraq doesnââ¬â¢t even have the potential to be a quagmire because there is no way we can hang on there short of vaporizing millions of Iraqis with nukes (or other super-dooper wonder weapons which we may or may not have).
What we have here is a thousand mile gauntlet of Iraqis shooting at arcade ducks driving Humvees. Quack! Quack! Quack! They donââ¬â¢t have a chance. And itââ¬â¢s going on all over Iraq. I donââ¬â¢t care how much firepower they have in their firebases, if they canââ¬â¢t get any water to drink, theyââ¬â¢re all dead within maybe 72 hours in Iraq. I bet most firebases rely on trucked-in water. The fuel is trucked in also, and ammo and food as well.
Our Glorious Imperial Legions are toast. The only remaining question is how many will be slaughtered ... maybe half ... maybe more ... maybe less, depending on the breaks. As Gen. Turgidson would say, ââ¬Åweââ¬â¢re going to get our hair mussed.ââ¬Â At this point, about the best we can hope for is a fighting retreat to the Baghdad airport for a speedy exit while our troops still have the fuel and ammo to fight our way there. The longer we delay the evacuation, the worse the rout will be.
Our Glorious Imperial Legions currently in Iraq will not be there a year from now, except as skeletons. Iraq is not a potential quagmire because all our troops will be either routed or captured or slaughtered within a year. I canââ¬â¢t tell you when the total collapse of our army in Iraq will come, but it will be within a year, no more. It could collapse within a month if Lord Bremer doesnââ¬â¢t pull a nuke out of a hat or something.
Consider some things about Iraq. It's a little larger than California in square miles. Our firebases are scattered all over. They are all tethered to their re-supply by hundreds of miles of open road. These roads are nothing more than huge shooting galleries for the Iraqis, and our troops driving on them have no more chance than arcade ducks. All thin-skinned vehicles driving on them have no chance against an RPG rocket - one hit and youââ¬Ëre an instant crispy critter. Whacking convoys in Iraq is fun and easy too. On top of that, you get to loot whatever might be left over. Itââ¬â¢s not even war, itââ¬â¢s sport with a chance of profit.
Only tanks and armored fighting vehicles have a ghost of a chance on these roads, and they are useless for delivering supplies. What about helicopters? No hope there. Theyââ¬â¢re fuel hogs. There are too few of them in any case, and the distances are so vast that choppers will be able to deliver only a trickle of supplies of any kind. Besides, most of our silly whirly birds will be up to their rotors in donkey work, blasting away at every Iraqi they see while hauling terrified VIPs to places of safety. BAWK! BAWK! BAWK! Watch for our Iraqi stooges on the stooge council to scurry off the sinking ship like the rats they are. Iââ¬â¢m going to give a special gong to the first Iraqi stooge rat that makes a run for it. Iââ¬â¢m gonna call it ââ¬ÅHer Majesty's Knightly Order of Speedy WOGs.ââ¬Â
Do you know what the problem is with using attack helicopters to hose infantry or armed peasants? I'll tell you what the problem is from both actual experience and accounts Iââ¬â¢ve read. The infantry/peasants usually realize that running is basically not much of an option - BAWK! BAWK! BAWK! - so they often as not shoot back. What the heck. And because shooting at choppers is fun, everybody tends to open up with everything they have. The bottom line is that even if the stupid whirly bird isnââ¬â¢t shot down, itââ¬â¢s usually shot up so bad that it's a total loss. The Iraqi Resistance has basically an infinity of RPGs. Iraq is basically a huge ammo dump. Iraq is basically a huge shooting arcade built on a huge ammo dump.
The distance from the port of Basra to Baghdad is maybe 300 miles, about the same as from Los Angeles to San Francisco. How would you like to drive a tanker full of gasoline from L.A. to Frisco with everybody along the way taking pot shots at you with RPGs and machineguns? And letââ¬â¢s talk about water some more. Any firebase that is totally cut off from water re-supply will be forced to surrender within days. Did I say surrender? Silly me! Theyââ¬Ëll wind up as bridge ornaments. No local is going to drive any of these trucks. In the unlikely event that he isnââ¬â¢t whacked in an ambush, the Iraqi Resistance will cut his throat before he can cash his check. Besides, weââ¬â¢ll run out of trucks long before the Iraqis run out of RPG rounds.
I saw an Abrams tank on the tube last night. It was smoking and slowly rolling down the road. Then, it stopped and GIs were pulling wounded and burnt GIs out of the tank. The talking head said the Iraqis took it out with an RPG. However, they did it, they did it. The Abrams is our most ferocious land weapon. When they are gone, our troops are toast because the Iraqis arenââ¬â¢t one bit afraid of our whirly birds.
All the wheels are falling off our Glorious Imperial War Machine in Iraq. Will the American officers and men in Iraq commit mass suicide by continuing to obey Beloved Emperor Bonehead, or ... will they do themselves and our Republic a great big favor and self-evacuate?
My web site: [url]http://www.firebaseskull.com[/url]
2004-04-16 19:59 | User Profile
The American soldiers killed in Iraq are just as much the victims of the New American Empire as the Iraqis killed there. They're all dying for the mad ambitions of the War Cabal. I feel nothing but sadness for the deaths on both sides.