← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Bardamu
Thread ID: 13127 | Posts: 5 | Started: 2004-04-11
2004-04-11 15:59 | User Profile
Happy Easter to all of you.
I was discussing with a Christian acquaintance the subject of zionism. It was a low key conversation touching on US foreign policy in the mideast. My question is: where in the New Testament does it mention Christian support for Israel? Somewhere in Revelations? Something about Israel will have to be reestablished before the Second Coming? Can someone cite the chapter and verse?
2004-04-12 00:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]My question is: where in the New Testament does it mention Christian support for Israel? Somewhere in Revelations? Something about Israel will have to be reestablished before the Second Coming? Can someone cite the chapter and verse?[/QUOTE]
Christian Zionists/Dispensationalists claim, using the following New Testament Scriptures, that:
1) Jews and Israel remain beloved for the sake of their fathers, and their status as a chosen nation is irrevocable:
Romans 11 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
2) They would return to their land and Jerusalem in the "Last Days"
Luke 21 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Whether these prophecies have already been fulfilled and whether Jews have a divine right in the Holy Land is open to theological debate.
I am of the opinion that the prophecies in Ezekiel and Zechariah were fulfilled when the Israelites returned to the Holy Land after the Babylonian/Persian captivity in the Old Testament and are not applicable to today's national Israel.
Some hyper-Zionists like Zola Levitt also like to cite Christ's words in Matthew 24:9 as a prophecy of increasing anti-Semitism:
*Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. *
Christ is referring to Christian persection, especially among the disciples as they established the early Church, not anti-Jewishness. But try getting that through the head of a CZ.
Other relevant passages the dispensationalists don't seem to care for when trying to elevate national Israel into their pantheon:
John 18 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Romans 9 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Romans 14 *17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. *
Galatians 3:28-29 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Recommended reading:
[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/library/fresh_words/2002/041702.html]Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?[/url], by John Piper (Baptist theologian)
[url=http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods17.html]The Gospel According to Joe[/url], by Thomas E. Woods, Jr. (Catholic theologian)
[url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0875523986/qid=1081729815/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-8002159-7179034?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]The Israel of God: Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow[/url], by O. Palmer Robertson (Reformed theologian)
[url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/080106435X/qid=1081729874/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-8002159-7179034?v=glance&s=books]A Case for Amillennialism: Understanding the End Times[/url], by Kim Riddlebarger (Reformed theologian)
2004-04-12 13:07 | User Profile
Thank you guys for the responses. I'll study those links.
2004-04-12 15:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Thank you guys for the responses. I'll study those links.[/QUOTE]
Another: [url=http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=13084]Israel and the Kingdom of God[/url]
2004-04-12 19:43 | User Profile
The world is learning from the Zionist in Palestine,,,,, now the US wants to kill the cleric in Iraq and in Brazil they want a 10 foot fence around the poor section of town in order to separate the rich from the poor.
I wonder when we will put a fence around California in order to keep the Latinos away from the "whites".
And we are also killing the leadership in Iraq in order to created a vacuum that we can influence in order to place our own puppet in power.
What's holding the "prestige" of the Zionist Jews in the world is the American government and in turn by the American people, as soon as the American people learn who the Zionist Jews really are then and only then will the downfall of their power will be accomplished.
Up till the time that the Internet came about I was not aware of the Zionist Jews and now I am becoming paranoid, maybe, by knowing them I have learned as to how they operate and I can see the signs everywhere.
They try to get in your subconsience and someday they will get into your supreconciense and that's when they will accomplish their goals and the human race will become their slave and not only their puppets.
If you think that I am giving them to much credit then you are a fool by not learning the way that they operate.
In my crazy mind I keep thinking that the Jews are planning in eliminating around 70% to 75% of the human race and use the rest of them as their personal slaves,,,,,, as far as I am concern most of those "mysterious" diseases that are coming about are being produced by them. Of course I am talking in terms of a long range plan and not in the next 50 or 100 years, as indicated by the Protocols of Zion.