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Once Saved, Always Saved?

Thread ID: 12773 | Posts: 1 | Started: 2004-03-17

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wild_bill [OP]

2004-03-17 19:53 | User Profile

Eternal Security: Romans 8:38,39? [url]http://www.willcoxson.net/faith/rom838.htm[/url]

In a non-catholic Sunday school class that I sat in on recently, the teacher asserted that Romans 8:38,39 proved the eternal security of the believer. The teacher brought up the passage in Romans as a guide to interpret John 15:10,

"If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love." (John 15:10)

John says that if we obey Jesus commands, we will remain in Jesus' love. The SS teacher asserted that even if we do not obey Jesus commands, we will remain in His love. To a point, I agree. The Lord's desire is for people to repent (1 Tim 2:4) and his arms are ready to receive the repentant sinner as the prodigal son (Luke 15:20). However, the teacher also asserted that this also gives an unconditional assurance of salvation. This is where I have to disagree. An unconditional eternal security goes against too many passages of Scripture. First, let us examine Romans 8:38,39,

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,  neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38,39)

When this passage is dissected, it is clear that nothing in creation will separate Christians from the love of God. However, all the elements of creation mentioned in this passage are outside of the believer. Notice what the passage does not say. It does not say that sin and wanton disobedience will not separate us from the love of God. It does not say that, because it would then contradict the rest of Scripture. For example,

But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear. (Isaiah 59:2)

‘‘Son of man, say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what you are saying: ‘‘Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because of them. How then can we live?”’  Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?’

‘‘Therefore, son of man, say to your countrymen, ‘The righteousness of the righteous man will not save him when he disobeys, and the wickedness of the wicked man will not cause him to fall when he turns from it. The righteous man, if he sins, will not be allowed to live because of his former righteousness.’  If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done.  And if I say to the wicked man, ‘You will surely die,’ but he then turns away from his sin and does what is just and right—  if he gives back what he took in pledge for a loan, returns what he has stolen, follows the decrees that give life, and does no evil, he will surely live; he will not die.  None of the sins he has committed will be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he will surely live. (Ezekiel 33:10-16)

‘‘You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?  Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.  And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.  The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire." (Matthew 3:7-10)

If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.  It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. (2 Peter 2:20,21)

But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. (Colossians 1:22,23)

What Romans 8:38,39 does say is that no external thing can separate us from the love of God. Satan did not separate Adam from God in the garden. Adam separated himself from God when he (Adam) sinned. Solomon's wives did not separate Solomon from God. Solomon separated himself from God by worshipping idols. Money did not separate Judas Iscariot from Jesus. The sins of greed and betrayal separated Judas. Nothing in all of creation can separate us from the love of God--except sin, which is not on the list in Romans 8:38,39. Sin can separate us from the love of God, and it always could. That is why St. John the Apostle wrote, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9) That is why our Lord, God, and Saviour Jesus Christ told us to pray, "Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." (Matthew 6:12) The same Saint Paul who wrote the epistle to the Romans also wrote this as a warning,

If we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us (2 Timothy 2:12)

St. John the Apostle wrote,

If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that.  All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. (1 John 5:16, 17)

And, James wrote,

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back,  remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. (James 5:19, 20)

Please heed the warnings.

For related documents, see:

An Analysis of 1 Corinthians 9:27 Reaping and Sowing

The Once-Saved-Always-Saved Quiz by Gary Hoge The Unconditional Assurance of Salvation by Gary Hoge The Problem of Grave Sin by Gary Hoge Are All True Christians Predestined to Persevere? by James Akin Finders Keepers? by Tim Staples