← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Texas Dissident
Thread ID: 12634 | Posts: 41 | Started: 2004-03-03
2004-03-03 18:55 | User Profile
My apologies for the late update after our down time last week.
Basically what happened was our previous host dropped us seemingly out of the blue. I was just like yourselves in that for a full day I had no idea what the problem was since the hosting company would not reply to my emails or telephone calls.
I made use of that time in the dark to go ahead and sign up with a new hosting company that advertises themselves as specializing in hosting vbulletin forums.
Finally, after a day I received an email from our previous host stating that they had sent me an email a few days before stating that our board was too busy for their old dinosaur server and that we had three days to find a new home. This was untrue as I never received that message, but nevertheless I had to make the change to find OD a new home.
The new host provided outstanding customer service and transferred everything themselves and had us up and running by the following evening. Obviously I was worried about our large database, but the new host knew what they were doing and made the transfer quite painless. I feel confident in our new home, but even they have stated that due to our large database we will have to be careful about overloading their server. Because of that I have many of the vbulletin search features disabled and will have to be careful in that regard. I don't know what the long term solution is for us if we keep growing, but right now we're stable and ok where we are at. Cost-wise it was basically a lateral move.
Some of you may have noticed the new board description under the main OD banner. I've also revised the board guidelines a bit as well. This is a change I've been thinking on for quite some time now and I didn't do it thoughtlessly. I had been very ambivalent about the tone and direction the board was taking and needless to say, it did not reflect what my conscience and principles would allow. I know that some will go away in protest and no doubt even work to shut us down, but that was considered by myself before making the change and I am ok with that. It is my responsiblity to establish the framework within which the membership here participates and I found that I could not in good conscience continue to allow and thereby endorse opinions posted that demeaned and berated beliefs that I and others here hold very dear, namely our Christian faith. Let the chips fall where they may, the decision has been made and OD will stand or fall on it. I can't do anything else.
Hope that clears some things up and I look forward to engaging and fruitful discussion here on the OD board.
Best regards,
Jason
2004-03-03 21:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]I know that some will go away in protest and no doubt even work to shut us down. [/QUOTE] Anti-ODiers? Anti-ODinists?
2004-03-03 22:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident] My apologies for the late update after our down time last week.
Basically what happened was our previous host dropped us seemingly out of the blue. I was just like yourselves in that for a full day I had no idea what the problem was since the hosting company would not reply to my emails or telephone calls.
I made use of that time in the dark to go ahead and sign up with a new hosting company that advertises themselves as specializing in hosting vbulletin forums.
Finally, after a day I received an email from our previous host stating that they had sent me an email a few days before stating that our board was too busy for their old dinosaur server and that we had three days to find a new home. This was untrue as I never received that message, but nevertheless I had to make the change to find OD a new home. That sounds a little suspicious. But glad you handled it good. I'd keep an eye though on what's up. Could be something going on behind the scene's - like your host getting some threatening phone calls from Abe/Morris and Co.
[quote=Texas Dissident]The new host provided outstanding customer service and transferred everything themselves and had us up and running by the following evening. Obviously I was worried about our large database, but the new host knew what they were doing and made the transfer quite painless. I feel confident in our new home, but even they have stated that due to our large database we will have to be careful about overloading their server. Because of that I have many of the vbulletin search features disabled and will have to be careful in that regard. I don't know what the long term solution is for us if we keep growing, but right now we're stable and ok where we are at. Cost-wise it was basically a lateral move.
Tex, you're getting good at this. You handled this with hardly a hiccup.
[quote=Texas Dissident]Some of you may have noticed the new board description under the main OD banner. I've also revised the board guidelines a bit as well. This is a change I've been thinking on for quite some time now and I didn't do it thoughtlessly.....Jason[/QUOTE] As my byline describes, the phrases "paleoconservatism" and "Christian nationalism" are pretty much duplitious anyway, as Christianity is pretty much synonomous with our western heritage.
Nietzschien's and other anti-western, dogmatically anti-democratic thinkers assert of course they are defending their own brand of conservatism, but as my by-line notes, I don't really think conservatism outside the bounds of our traditional western heritage is very coherent or consonant with paleoconservatism. Those that have a bee in their bonnet the size of Bolivia with paleoconservatism, as our experience shows here, are unlikely to be swayed by any rational arguments, modify their intractibility, or significantly develop any measure of good will toward paleoconservatives, in spite of all the trouble their presense here causes, as our latest experience shows.
They as always demonstrate elequently why the world developed such a hatred toward Nazi's. I guess they'll have to find some other lucky "friend" to throw the heavy anchor of their affections around.
2004-03-04 00:51 | User Profile
It is my responsiblity to establish the framework within which the membership here participates and I found that I could not in good conscience continue to allow and thereby endorse opinions posted that demeaned and berated beliefs that I and others here hold very dear, namely our Christian faith.
Saaaayy.....does that mean that the VNN URL in my signature line info has to go?
2004-03-04 00:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Some of you may have noticed the new board description under the main OD banner. I've also revised the board guidelines a bit as well. This is a change I've been thinking on for quite some time now and I didn't do it thoughtlessly. I had been very ambivalent about the tone and direction the board was taking and needless to say, it did not reflect what my conscience and principles would allow. I know that some will go away in protest and no doubt even work to shut us down, but that was considered by myself before making the change and I am ok with that. It is my responsiblity to establish the framework within which the membership here participates and I found that I could not in good conscience continue to allow and thereby endorse opinions posted that demeaned and berated beliefs that I and others here hold very dear, namely our Christian faith. Let the chips fall where they may, the decision has been made and OD will stand or fall on it. I can't do anything else.[/QUOTE]
I say good riddance to anyone who can't refrain from mocking the most deeply held convictions of millions of White people.
2004-03-04 03:48 | User Profile
And, in my defense re: Christian-bashing, I have never bashed Father Coughlin or his pals....or, Walter Yannis here at OD, or similar Christian people at OD....at least, not that I can recall......I bash the 'Judeo-Christian/Equality' types.
2004-03-04 08:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Saaaayy.....does that mean that the VNN URL in my signature line info has to go?[/QUOTE]
I'm not so concerned about a casual link, Franco. But I do believe that promotion of the site in question is a slap in the face of many of our members here, myself included.
Now having said that, I still maintain that Christians here are not your enemy and the original battle lines were not drawn by this side. For years now I've given plenty of leeway to the opposing sides and in my opinion it has gotten us nowhere except an evident feeling by our ever-vigilant enemies of having carte blanche to attack and belittle the true faith here on this board.
My original hope was that mutual respect could be gained via the free exchange of ideas, but I came to the hard conclusion that that was naive idealism on my part. For you see that those who continuously attack Christianity at every turn, this is their highest and sole purpose, overriding any concern they may or may not have for the white race and/or overthrowing jewish control of our culture and institutions. So all I can say is that complaints should be directed towards that corner, not this one. Basic respect for traditional, orthodox Christianity will be expected of those who participate here. In a nutshell that's the bottom line to the new guidelines.
Finally, it's not like I'm closing the cyber-door to the presentation of our enemies points of view. OD is a small board with at best, average exposure. Within the white nationalist internet presence itself probably almost 100 percent is anti-Christian in their basic tone and presentation. That's plenty of room to roam outside of these pages if you ask me. I fully expect that this place will even get smaller, as well.
2004-03-04 08:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]I think that you should clarify how you define "demean" and "berate." I agree that some of the childis hand obsessive Christian-bashing is uncalled for and politically counterproductive, but at the same time I hope that you don't plan on banning people who are atheist/pagan for contributing intelligent discussion on the subject of religion. There's a substantial difference between the gratuitious Christian-baiting on VNN and the posts of somebody like wintermute and NeoNietzsche, in my opinion.
Since the new guidelines I revised yesterday, only one member has been banned and that was at their request after more or less stating they would not abide by them. As to your view of substantial differences, well the perceptions of same may differ depending upon whether one is a deist or Christian. Some talented few can dress up their opinions in fancy language and obscure rhetoric, but the rabid hostility still shines through. I'm not a tyrant or a knee-jerk banner and it is not my wish to ban anyone. All I'm demanding is respect. Criticism is even fine if it is done in a proper manner, free of ridicule and belittling slurs and commentary. Surely this is not too much to ask of mature, intelligent and sober white men. And it's not even like the burden should be on the side of those who stand on the shoulders of over 2000 years of Western Christendom! Let's get serious.
To make this clear, one should ask oneself the following question: do the Christians here believe that a Christian negro is more their ally than a right-wing atheist white man?
That altogether depends upon the task at hand and what the ultimate goal is. Each day we deal here with very fundamental issues that quickly get down to brass tacks. There's a lot of intelligent people on this board and that's our strength. But, I'm of the belief that one can't just separate fundamental belief-systems of individuals from their physical being. A man's spirit and body are a complex partnership that working together form the whole man and shape every facet of his being. I could no more not have my faith influence my political views than change the color of my skin. As far as I am concerned, the door is open to anyone who can accept and respect that, just as I would fully expect to do likewise towards them in turn.
Mutual respect -- that is the way of honorable men and our birthright as the fruit of two millennia of Western Christendom.
2004-03-04 18:02 | User Profile
I have long felt that the gratuitous Christian bashing was at the least counter-productive and more probably so offensive to many that our cause was hurt. Like Ezra Pound late in life I came to understand why many wise men did not worry that their children were exposed to the teaching of the Christian religion.
I am more or less an agnostic, but I respect greatly the achievements of Christianity in the rise of the West, much like Santayana. However much like Edward Gibbon, James George Fraser and Lord Bolingbroke I will question the destructive tenets of the Christian religion on a society seeking masculine honorable virtues. The religion that I was raised in, Episcopalianism, has caused more damage to the fabric of America than Castro could do in 10 lifetimes. I have found T.D. to be a fair arbiter and will abide by his decisions.
2004-03-04 18:40 | User Profile
I should also add that if any members find the new guidelines so outrageous and offensive as to cause them to no longer want to be a part of this board, then simply PM or email me requesting that I remove their membership and I will do so.
2004-03-04 18:49 | User Profile
This looks like deja vu all over again. Boutique Dissent it is then. May it find its new audience.
2004-03-04 18:58 | User Profile
Tex,
As far as I can tell, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you're not disallowing criticism of Christianity, are you? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you're simply requiring that such criticism be expressed in intelligent, civil terms without sneers and demeaning comments. That isn't too much to ask, and if people leave over that then I say good riddance.
2004-03-04 19:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Valley Forge]As far as I can tell, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you're not disallowing criticism of Christianity, are you? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you're simply requiring that such criticism be expressed in intelligent, civil terms without sneers and demeaning comments.[/QUOTE]
That is correct, VF. If I were going to disallow all criticism of Christianity, then why would I retain a prominent forum based entirely on critique of pre-millennial dispensationalist eschatology? That would hardly make any sense.
Hysteria aside, if one views the internet presence of the greater nationalist movement, I simply want to place OD firmly within the camp that flies under the banner of historic, Western Christian orthodoxy and have that position respected by those who participate here. Like yourself, I don't think that's asking too much. However, I am forcing the hand of some to pick a side.
2004-03-04 19:48 | User Profile
** No posts demeaning, ridiculing or insulting of the traditional Christian faith of our Western heritage.
** Please refrain from any base religious, ethnic or racial epithets and profanity. It is OD's ideal that sensitive issues such as religion, ethnicity and even race can be discussed on an intellectual level without undue hostilities being generated from coarse language, but please also bear in mind that we fly under the banner of historic, Christian orthodoxy.
Get outta here. Some people have a problem with respect? : )
2004-03-04 21:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]Think about it - atheist Jews like Dershowitz happily cooperate with Kahanite Orthodox when it comes to supporting Israel and subverting US foreign policy. Why can't rightwing whites do the same?[/QUOTE]
I think the difference is Dershowitz respects his Jewish heritage even though he's an atheist and has little actual use for the Jewish religion. On the contrary, we have many people in the pro-white movement who regard Christianity among white people, in spite of our 2,000 year-old Christian tradition, as the source of all our problems and a terrible thing that needs to be erradicated ASAP.
Many of us have been around long enough to know what motivates some of these people. Certain organizations, which I won't name, play games by pretending neutrality towards Christianity, but actually hope to eventually destroy it. On pagan and atheist mailing lists they constantly spout their contempt and loathing of Jesus Christ and Christians. OTOH, I don't see a corresponding hostile attitude among Christians. Go on some racialist lists and post anything favorable to Christianity and you'll be attacked. I'm experiencing this right now on one list I'm on. One list member who hates Christianity demands that no postings favorable to Christianity be allowed. If someone posts a pro-Christian article having to do with race, he becomes irate and complains of having religion "rammed down his throat."
I think this is why atheistical and religious Jews often work together and we don't.
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2004-03-05 00:21 | User Profile
Freud once speculated that the great reason many disliked Jews and their religion was that they were responsible for the introduction of Christianity into western culture. Looking at much of mainstream Christianity today I find very little influence for what I consider the more valued and noble aspects of a culture or, may I say it, a civilization.
2004-03-05 02:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]I really can't see this forum being what it is without some of its more visible non-Christian posters (il ragno, wintermute, NeoNietzsche, Avalanche, madrussian, and others). If your goal is to make some kind of impact and to have a board that's an alternative to the conspiracy theory idiocy and mindless ranting of other "far right" boards, we really can't afford to lose or alienate some of our best people.[/QUOTE]
Well, what's the alternative?
When the mood suits them, IR, WM, and NN can be as nasty and mean spitited toward their fellow whites as Abe Foxman and Irv Rubin. I'm not going to go back into the archives to look for it, but we've all seen it.
I have been reluctant to speak out against their nastiness up till now, because I see this board as primarily political, and free speech is very important. Plus, quite frankly, I agree with much of what that trio has to say about contemporary Christians -- though the majority of what they have to say applies just as much to white pagans and other non-Christians as it does to Christians.
How is it that you, Angler, Edward Gibbon, and madrussian -- all non-Christians -- manage to make your points concerning religion, Christianity, and problems in the church without simultaneously adopting a vile and insulting tone? One thing you all have in common, interestingly enough, is that none of you are National Socialists. I think that's interesting, and in some ways it's a vindication of Okie and Walter's viewpoint. They've been warning for months not to deal with the Nazi element, and so far, as far as I can tell, the Nazis are the only ones storming out in a huff...and for what??? Because they will no longer be free to mock and ridicule White people (who happen to be Christian).
In my opinion, OD doesn't needs people who believe that sneering at Christians is an effective way to build a broad political movement among Whites.
OD needs people who pay more than lip service to racial solidarity.
2004-03-05 03:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]I think that what separated the old-school National Socialists and other far-rightists of yesteryear from today's neo-Nazis is that while many of their top men were atheists, agnostics, deists, or pagans, they indeed respected and glorified Europe's Christian traditions, holding up the Holy Roman Emperors of the First Reich as national heroes and precursors. Today's "National Socialists" summarily dismiss an entire millenium of culture because of their doctrinaire atheism or paganism, in spite of the fact that their very movement would be unthinkable without Medieval Christendom as a precursor.[/QUOTE]
I concur with your observations and will add that the nazis are apparently oblivious to their total lack of power and miniscule numbers - as if they have any credibility to cast criticisms. If the nazis could point to some notable success they acheived in the past 50 years, I might give their statements more credence, but, again, what have they accomplished?
Even the late William Pierce, the foremost US nazi, knew he had to avoid being percieved as overtly national socialist and anti-Christian despite the fact that Adolf Hitler was his hero and he personally loathed Christianity. Of course, he did this for rational, although obviously cynical, reasons. Yet the nazis we often see cast off even those minimal considerations. They apparently don't care if their comments alienate, as long as they can indulge in mocking and ridiculing Christianity.
I also agree with the comment that its possible to interact with non-Christians in worthwhile discussions on many topics besides religion.
My aim is not attacking anyone just because they're not a Christian. Its the hostile antagonists, who's only interest in discussing Christianity is to have more opportunities to spew their anti-Christ bile, that I have no patience for.
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2004-03-05 03:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill
Even the late William Pierce, the foremost US nazi, knew he had to avoid being percieved as overtly national socialist and anti-Christian despite the fact that Adolf Hitler was his hero and he personally loathed Christianity. Of course, he did this for rational, although obviously cynical, reasons. Yet the nazis we often see cast off even those minimal considerations. They apparently don't care if their comments alienate, as long as they can indulge in mocking and ridiculing Christianity.
[/QUOTE]
Even though Hitler did not believe in Catholicism, he kept his (nominal) membership for political reasons, and urged the other National Socialist leaders to do likewise. He did not want to alienate the great mass of Germans who were either Catholic or Reformed (Lutheran).
2004-03-05 04:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=edward gibbon]Freud once speculated that the great reason many disliked Jews and their religion was that they were responsible for the introduction of Christianity into western culture. Looking at much of mainstream Christianity today I find very little influence for what I consider the more valued and noble aspects of a culture or, may I say it, a civilization.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure exactly if this accurately summarizes some of the arguments in Freud's seminal work on anti-Semitism and Christianity, Moses and Monotheism, which seeems to have strongly influenced the line taken by Frankfurt School principles Horkheimer and Adorno. Kevin MacDonald's take on the central Freudian argument seems somewhat different.
Let me get this straight though, you're saying you buy into this? Is your adaption of critical theory for paleoconservatism anything like that of Paul Gottfried?
2004-03-05 04:44 | User Profile
Well, I'm staying at OD until I get kicked off, and I hope that NN, WM, Avalanche and the rest reconsider, if they truly intend to leave, that is......variety is what makes this board so darn fun...
:king: :king:
[edited slightly]
2004-03-05 04:59 | User Profile
I've said it before and I'll say it again now: the "Dead Kike on a Stick" garbage is totally counterproductive, a huge impediment to winning the hearts & minds of the millions of disgruntled Christians who retain a measure of healthy instincts and who would otherwise be receptive to the message of racial survival. Those who've read my letters to VNN over the last few years - in which I give full vent to my opinions in no-holds-barred terms - will perhaps have noticed that while I slam "Christian" hucksters in the manner they deserve, I never cross the line of blasphemously insulting the most basic beliefs of true Christians. I grew up a firm believer myself, and while my present beliefs are maybe not quite so set in stone, it's just not in me to do that.
Ridiculing Jewdeo-Churchian shills? Certainly. "Jeebus"? No way.
One word of caution: Keeping members from urinating on the Cross is one thing, I think it would be a mistake to clamp down on "colorful" language to the point that life & fire are extinguished from posts in the lofty quest to keep up the tone of the place.
2004-03-05 05:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Valley Forge]Well, what's the alternative?
When the mood suits them, IR, WM, and NN can be as nasty and mean spitited toward their fellow whites as Abe Foxman and Irv Rubin. I'm not going to go back into the archives to look for it, but we've all seen it.
I have been reluctant to speak out against their nastiness up till now, because I see this board as primarily political, and free speech is very important. Plus, quite frankly, I agree with much of what that trio has to say about contemporary Christians -- though the majority of what they have to say applies just as much to white pagans and other non-Christians as it does to Christians. For the record, I didn't think any of these three were nasty and mean-spirited. Neither Wintermute, who practically become a softy, or Neo with his dour super Nietzschien inanities ever adopted a cheap tone, and IR with his flippancy I think just meant to mirror, not entirely without justification, my own.
Similarly Franco and Av's silly jibes occasionally were good at least in letting us know what they were thinking.
I don't think the issue ultimately was one of tone rather than substance re:
How is it that you, Angler, Edward Gibbon, and madrussian -- all non-Christians -- manage to make your points concerning religion, Christianity, and problems in the church without simultaneously adopting a vile and insulting tone? One thing you all have in common, interestingly enough, is that none of you are National Socialists. I think that's interesting, and in some ways it's a vindication of Okie and Walter's viewpoint. They've been warning for months not to deal with the Nazi element, and so far, as far as I can tell, the Nazis are the only ones storming out in a huff...and for what??? Because they will no longer be free to mock and ridicule White people (who happen to be Christian).
Well I didn't feel mocked and ridiculed, at least not excessively so. And not entirely like I was picked on - NN seemed to ridicule in his own way everybody.
In my opinion, OD doesn't needs people who believe that sneering at Christians is an effective way to build a broad political movement among Whites.
OD needs people who pay more than lip service to racial solidarity.[/QUOTE]
Again I think the issue was not one of tone, but of substance. National Socialists have gone out on a fundamentally different path than us. I guess Tex no longer wanted to allow the possibility that the shared disgust at the war, Zionism, multiculturalism, neoconservatism, Abe Foxman, and predatory businessmen to mask this.
2004-03-05 08:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Valley Forge]How is it that you, Angler, Edward Gibbon, and madrussian -- all non-Christians -- manage to make your points concerning religion, Christianity, and problems in the church without simultaneously adopting a vile and insulting tone? One thing you all have in common, interestingly enough, is that none of you are National Socialists. I think that's interesting, and in some ways it's a vindication of Okie and Walter's viewpoint. They've been warning for months not to deal with the Nazi element, and so far, as far as I can tell, the Nazis are the only ones storming out in a huff...and for what??? Because they will no longer be free to mock and ridicule White people (who happen to be Christian).
Actually, I'll let Walter take credit for that. He was the one who thought talking with atheists was a waste of time. It may be, but ultimately I think you've got to be willing to talk with people and deal with them, when accordingto all therest of the world you agree with so much.
In my opinion, OD doesn't needs people who believe that sneering at Christians is an effective way to build a broad political movement among Whites. I certainly would prefer worshipful adoration myself, but personally I wouldn't make the call myself.
OD needs people who pay more than lip service to racial solidarity.[/QUOTE]Of course you realize people will say solidarity is a two way street, and what you really mean is pay more than lip service to our brand of racial solidarity.
For a movement as small as ours, I hate to be the one that causes unnecessary splits. One has obviously occurred here - it is regrettable.
2004-03-05 17:15 | User Profile
So be it. The choices others make are out of my hands.
2004-03-05 23:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]For the record, I didn't think any of these three were nasty and mean-spirited. Neither Wintermute, who practically become a softy, or Neo with his dour super Nietzschien inanities ever adopted a cheap tone, and IR with his flippancy I think just meant to mirror, not entirely without justification, my own. [/QUOTE]
Of course. Just to be a little clearer about exactly where I stand on this dust up as an OD participant, I certainly don't believe that NN, WM, and IR are nasty and mean sprited people, or even that most of their posts were nasty and mean spirited. On the contrary, I think that NN, WM, and IR have written some the most interesting, intelligent, and insightful commentary ever to appear on the Internet -- or anywhere else for that matter. I for one sincerely hope that no one leaves over Tex's decision; however, everyone should follow his or her conscience, and if people do decide to leave, I certainly wish them well.
2004-03-06 00:53 | User Profile
Long time member [u]la foudre folle[/u] sent me the following via email. Upon her request I am posting it here (unedited) since we are having some trouble with her account.
What a relief. I was worried when OD disappeared. In these perilous times it is not easy to refrain from the ripest sort of conspiracy theories--especially since so many are conspiring to insult my intelligence. Whatever I may think of the ideas some of the guests here, you have attracted a high level of intelligence and wit for such a small forum.
But intelligence not disciplined by experience, intuition, examination of conscience--or self-critique--is what? Something less than intelligent at best; and at worst thoroughly counterproductive and destructive. So much so that a thoughtful person might suspect that the destruction of any road--however small, however poorly paved--to consciousness is the intent of such intelligent and witty, but catastrophically stupid, folk.
Your deportment as administrator has been gracious, manly, discerning and tolerant of true diversity in the way that grown-up man are capable of being (as opposed, alas, to most women). The "genocidal god" thread is a fine example of manly patience.
Those who are being "banned" or choosing to leave because, for all their writing skills, they do not appear to know how to enter into someone's home without strangling the kitten curled up on the couch. Understanding the ways and means of hospitality is one of the hallmarks of higher human civilization.
This tiny forum is a metaphor for the stuggle of Christian people--especially white Christians--in the wider society to come to grips with their altered state. Moslems, Jews, neo-pagans, atheist-fundamentalists, post-christian anglos (perhaps the most putrid of all because they would desecrate their grandmother's grave if somebody gave them enough capital) all display a disconcertingly similar level of parasitism as they make their assaults upon the citadel, sapping the foundations and camping around the walls for the long siege. Even in the Roman Catholic Church--where the Enemy has largely succeeded in de-naturing the intistitution from inside --it is still a matter of feeding off the gutted form of the institution. There is no desire to form a new institution. The words MUST remain the same; the gestures MUST ape the ancient gestures.
Or else the parasites will suddenly be confronted with their profound nothingness.
Why do so many Jews refuse to live in their Homeland? Why are they fleeing back to Russia, home of the raping cossacks? Fleeing to Europe--home of the evil RCs who shouted "you killed Jesus" as they threw Ann Frank into the oven? Why does any moslem with a particle of education flee away from their glorious homelands? Why must the popo posse get "married"? Why can't they get "eiderdowned"?
I think the task, at this late date, is to shake the dust off our sandals. I no longer have any faith in the myth of "the free flow of ideas". I now understand the "free flow of ideas", like the "free market" is a fable told to small babies by the post-christian anglo/zionist axis just before they take the candy away. There never has been a "free flow of ideas". There is only the grim struggle for control of the language.
The culture war has been lost. I would argue that it was never really fought by anyone that I instinctively recognise as "my side". All cuture flows from religion. The culture that grew from The Christ--the most vigorous, diverse, wealthy, manly, tolerant cutlure ever devised--now has no HOMELAND. The United States Government is the greatest Enemy Christendom has ever faced. I think all our talents have to be directed towards the establishment of a Christian Homeland.
"...Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive...."
We need to be alive--an art that all too many Christian people have supressed. You seem to be coming alive.
And those who are making a great show of playing Galileo to your Pope will, like Galileo, learn to mind their manners. If only because parasites are naturally attracted to LIFE.....
Anyway, I'm glad OD is still in the fight....
-- la foudre folle
2004-03-06 06:22 | User Profile
Edgar Steele's latest article has some wisdom that seems to apply to the situation discussed on this thread.
Treading Water II
by Edgar J. Steele
March 6, 2004
(Part two of a four-part serialization of Chapter 15 from "In Defense of Racism," a book to be released later this year.)
On the other hand, now that we have our personal plans in place, what can we do?
Vote? A total waste of time, obviously. All leading candidates are vetted by the ruling elite in advance, at all levels of government. And voting for the lesser of two evils is what gave America George II (that is, if you donââ¬â¢t count the Supreme Court's role, of course). Remember: the lesser of two evils is still evil.
Sign petitions? Donââ¬â¢t bother ââ¬â nobody who counts will consider them.
Write our congressmen and demand action? Useless. Like teaching pigs to dance, it is a waste of your time and merely annoys them. They donââ¬â¢t need us in order to continue in office and they know it.
Outside of personal and family preparations and positioning, we who are awake have just one job until events come together to allow the creation of a New America: we must awaken the others.
Imagine a neighbor, friend or family member awakened by events, too late to prepare, confronted with your obvious advance preparations: ââ¬ÅWhy didnââ¬â¢t you tell me? What on earth were you thinking, not to demand that I wake up? You knew! Why didnââ¬â¢t you think enough of me to make me aware?ââ¬Â Is that a memory you want to carry with you for the rest of your life, especially if they end up not making it?
Yes, you might lose some friends who decide you have gone over the edge. This is the single consideration that prevents all of middle America from rising up en masse today to end racial preferences, remove the politicians at every level of government and taking back America. ââ¬ÅMaybe it wonââ¬â¢t get worse.ââ¬Â ââ¬ÅMaybe it will get better.ââ¬Â ââ¬ÅMaybe Iââ¬â¢ll have plenty of warning.ââ¬Â ââ¬ÅThe government would never actively hurt me.ââ¬Â
In the immortal words of Wayne, from the movie ââ¬ÅWayneââ¬â¢s Worldââ¬Â: ââ¬ÅYah, sure. When monkeys fly out of my ass.ââ¬Â
There already is a loose coalition of groups doing just that ââ¬â trying to awaken America, that is. We are called members of the ââ¬ÅPatriot Movementââ¬Â or, as the feds derisively like to refer to us: ââ¬ÅPatriots.ââ¬Â Who would have thought that the word patriot would ever become a dirty word in America?
The Patriot Movement is the only serious domestic obstacle confronting the cabal now astride America.
For the balance of this chapter, let me address what commonly is thought of as being the more radical, right-wing element in the Patriot Movement.
I am aware that a significant majority of those reading these words have not yet fully awakened. It is your hearts and minds I most wish to reach and bring on board with the problems confronting all Americans. It is you for whom I have written this book.
Nevertheless, the choir could stand with a little tuning, and I am hopeful that a good number of them also are reading this. Bear with me, as what I have to say to my more radical friends ultimately concerns you, your friends and your family.
Splintered, disorganized, fraught with infighting and jealous squabbles, denizens of the Patriot community truly make up the Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight. Even so, we represent America's best, possibly last, hope for redemption from the bottomless pit into which our warmongering, capitalist/exploitive, fascist rulers seem bent upon flinging all of America.
If only we could get on the same page. If only we could agree upon what it is that we want. Freedom, to be sure, but you don't just go out and get freedom; first you must do or get something from which freedom results. And there may well be a number of intervening steps. Or many different paths to the same objective.
One thing that unites us is our dissatisfaction with America's current regime and a belief that our liberty and freedom already have been eroded beyond the point of no return. In other words, the system now is out of the people's hands and cannot be used to effect change. Witness the "choice" presented at each Presidential election. Witness the meat grinder that America's justice system has become.
Besides, recent immigration alone has guaranteed that, never again, will America be as we remember, let alone as our forefathers dreamt it could be. It was all that, and more, for a time. That was then. This is now.
Many have been calling for revolution. I cannot join in that call for two reasons:
First, I would get myself disbarred, then thrown in jail. I would be of no use to anybody, least of all my family, were that to happen.
Second, the time is not yet right because the majority of common folk, including large essential elements of organizations like the military, the FBI and local law enforcement, have yet to accumulate enough dissatisfaction to join in, once the lines are drawn. We must be drawn further into the abyss, with the pain of unemployment, poverty and imprisonment inflicted upon a great many more of us, before America will be ready to rise up and throw off the tyrants in control.
Instead, we must determine just what it is that we should be doing. Awakening others seems the only logical answer, because there simply is nothing else that can be done at this time, other than preparing for hard economic times.
I firmly believe that we needn't worry about leadership. Events will cause our true leaders to step forward when the time comes, just as events propelled the character played by Mel Gibson in "The Patriot" to assume his mantle of leadership, finally. He paid dearly for that conversion, however, just as did America's founding fathers in real life. So shall we.
New America. An idea whose time has come.
-ed
"I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth." - Morpheus
Copyright é2004, Edgar J. Steele
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2004-03-06 16:07 | User Profile
[In response to numerous private inquiries:]
**[B]Demanding Respect[/B]****
[TD:] All I'm demanding is respect.
My [NN's] own sense of "respect" involves the earning of it rather than the demanding of it - and the exchange, below, does not, in my opinion, merit respect for NN's interlocutor [TD] or the inspiration that stands behind or within him. Evaluations ostensibly inconsistent with that offered by TD conclude the discussion of "[B]Respect[/B]":
[NN:] But why, dear friends and comrades, protest the indulgence in "Christianity"?
Is it because we must ask ourselves how a tiny minority arose to supremacy over a vast majority?
And given that question, is our answer as to our relative stupidity - our gullibility - to be cast in terms of our genetics or our cultural environment?
One is tempted to say both, of course - but what can be done immediately about our genetics?
Then what, ultimately, is the *cultural* culprit - that which *can* be addressed - dear friends and comrades, if not the good Christian culture which is said to be of our essence thus?
For why do the Christians always get eaten by the Lions even in *this* arena, if not for the fact that they come disarmed by their "faith"?
[TD:] Once again NN, your idiocy is only surpassed by your arrogance.
"Can be interpreted as", indeed. That sums up your entire presence here on this board. One I might add, that solely depends upon the good will and tolerance of one 'disarmed' Christian, whose tolerance of your complete and utter bullcorn is dissipating at an ever increasing rate.
How d'ya like them apples?
[NN:] Why do you ask, Tex - were you looking to have me polish them for you?
*Exhibit A: [AY:] There's a substantial difference between the gratuitious Christian-baiting on VNN and the posts of somebody like wintermute and NeoNietzsche, in my opinion.
*Exhibit B: [Okie:] Neither Wintermute, who practically become a softy, or Neo with his dour super Nietzschien inanities ever adopted a cheap tone...
*Exhibit C: [VF:] I certainly don't believe that NN, WM, and IR are nasty and mean sprited people, or even that most of their posts were nasty and mean spirited. On the contrary, I think that NN, WM, and IR have written some the most interesting, intelligent, and insightful commentary ever to appear on the Internet -- or anywhere else for that matter.
========================================================================================
**[B]Lip Service[/B]*
[VF:] OD needs people who pay more than lip service to racial solidarity.
As it happens, I [NN] had already made a point of the matter:
[NN:] But will such as Tex and Okie and Walter follow their racial leader - a Hitler, a Rockwell, a Linder - who will promise and fight for a purified regime, in whatever form it must take - which form will inevitably *not* involve a restoration, to Paleo-pleasing taste, of that Arcadian Constitutionalism and Old-Time Religion which stupidly let the Jews slip one over in the first place?
[Walter:] None for me, thanks. That was quite a sentence, by the way. Nice work.
[Franco:] Great comment. I wanna hear Tex's and Okie's answers.
[TD:] I'm not a good follower, NN, but who knows? What I do know though is that you won't be the one to define the parameters of who I may or may not follow.
========================================================================================
**[B]Strangling the Kitten[/B]*
[LFF:] Those who are being "banned" or choosing to leave because, for all their writing skills, they do not appear to know how to enter into [TD's] home without strangling the kitten curled up on the couch. Understanding the ways and means of hospitality is one of the hallmarks of higher human civilization.... And those who are making a great show of playing Galileo to your [TD's] Pope will, like Galileo, learn to mind their manners.
[NN:] Got it - no kitten strangling in Pope Jason's Parlor.
2004-03-06 16:53 | User Profile
The short of it is, then, that I, too, cannot comply with the guidelines specified for the newly and oxymoronically christened "Home of...Christian Nationalism". I can be polite but I cannot have respect.
2004-03-06 17:08 | User Profile
[url]http://www.thephora.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5559[/url]
2004-03-06 18:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=NeoNietzsche]The short of it is, then, that I, too, cannot comply with the guidelines specified for the newly and oxymoronically christened "Home of...Christian Nationalism". I can be polite but I cannot have respect.[/QUOTE]
Then before you finally depart let me take the opportunity to wish you and Avalanche all the best. I'm sorry it didn't work out here for y'all. It does appear though there are some other boards popping up where you might find an audience.
Take care and best regards.
2004-03-06 19:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident] Then before you finally depart let me take the opportunity to wish you and Avalanche all the best. I'm sorry it didn't work out here for y'all. It does appear though there are some other boards popping up where you might find an audience.
Take care and best regards.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Tex,
I, too, regret that things "didn't work out" - where once they were working prior to the eventual surfacing of your disappointment with the failure of OD to realize your personal agenda. Not that there is anything wrong with a personal agenda informing an endeavor for which you personally pay. A problem arises, however, as a matter of integrity - so it seems to me - when the ostensible premise of the discussion at OD is that the chips are to be allowed to fall where they may in the comparison of coherence and correspondence as between competing theories. But, as it has happened, your side's bankruptcy has been exposed, and so you have decided, in your explicitly-expressed disappointment, to stack the deck, after the fact, toward the realization of your agenda. As I say, fair enough, if that had been the advertised disposition of OD from the beginning and that the highest-quality contributors, WM, IR, and AY, had not been here to entice us into participation under the false premises which their similarly-innocent presence reinforced.
So, now we have a repetition of the classic migration of the disaffected to another venue, there having been no question as to the "finding of an audience" for Avalanche and myself, thank you - and we can account our presence at OD having been worthwhile in many respects, particulary for having encountered the now-migrant luminaries mentioned above and for having facilitated the clarification of the mission of OD.
Our best regards as well,
Neo & Ava
2004-03-06 19:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=NeoNietzsche]So, now we have a repetition of the classic migration of the disaffected to another venue, there having been no question as to the "finding of an audience" for Avalanche and myself, thank you - and we can account our presence at OD having been worthwhile in many respects, particulary for having encountered the now-migrant luminaries mentioned above and for having facilitated the clarification of the mission of OD.[/QUOTE]
I am truly pleased that you can take away something positive from your experiences here.
Sincerely,
Jason
2004-03-06 19:51 | User Profile
Integrity also demands of me to state that any who have contributed financially to this board who now may regret having done that, then please contact me via PM or at [email]siteadmin@originaldissent.com[/email]. I will reimburse you and make things square. It may take me a few months or so, but I will get it done.
2004-03-06 22:58 | User Profile
Not to speak for Tex, but I think John Howard's posts on the Genocidal God of the Jews thread qualify as demeaning and insulting. Tex set him straight and was right to do so. That's what led to this whole dust up.
2004-03-07 00:44 | User Profile
I guess I should add my two cents.
I'm a Catholic who recites the Nicene Creed every week. I dont debate theology or religion on the internet becuase its pointless imo, just as in real life. Its like debating the virtues of someone's mother. I doubt anyone can be convinced through vitriolic debat that either their mother is a whore, or their religion is false.
I fully understand TD's position on this. In fact, I'm constantly surprised by posters who come onto a board and then proceed to insult someone's religious beliefs in the basest terms. Its like eating dinner at someone's house and insulting the food, the house and the family for no reason other than to insult. Then they're "shocked" when they get the boot. "Vhat happened to my freedom of speech already?" Of course such tendencies "can't" be echt typikal Zhid, b/c its the self-proclaimed aryan supermen doing the insulting.
I'm disappointed that WM and apparently others, feel that a restriction on their ability to gratuitously insult others is an affront to their honor and have left. I found WM to be an excellent poster on every other issue :D. In fact my two favorite posters have always been anti-yuppie and MR- neither of whom are believing Christians.
The whole point of this board was/is to build broad consensus and support on nationalist issues, not to bicker on the divinity of Christ, or whether Wotan answers prayers. I guess this is the nature of the beast, and why no continued front of nationalist support has ever materialized. People would rather bicker about "important" issues to the movement like "one cube of sugar or two." Or swift's lilliputians and which side to crack open a hardboiled egg.
Reminds me of some Libertarian idealogues and why, even thiugh they may have the broadest support for many of their issues, they still havent acheived a single victory.
2004-03-07 05:38 | User Profile
Has IR officially "left the building"? If so, does anybody know where he's gone? I've grown very fond of him and his sparkling posts (among others here), and I don't want to lose track of him.
2004-03-07 07:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]I will also add an additional $.02 here in seconding Avalanche's observation that as soon as atheists/agnostics/pagans are shown the door, Christian unity will vanish here. Without a common opponent, OD's Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox will soon be at one another's throats. What then - a no criticism of Protestantism rule? After that, perhaps something more specific, such as no criticism of Lutheranism by Calvinists or by Anglicans.
Ssshh. Don't tell anyone. I was just getting on to part II of my divide and conquer strategy, and I was hoping no one but me figured it out. First NN, the Walter, then orthodox, or maybe, Proz, (as soon as I figure out for sure what I am myself, otherwise I might have to purge myself ;)
Today OD, tomorrow, zee world!!
But now you have let the cat out of the bag, I can't purge the others on the board cause now they're wary. Let's see, can we all agree on Zoroastrian's? :lol:
2004-03-07 08:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]Just for the record, I would like to know what specifically you have in mind by "demeaning to Christianity." ....Is doctrinal homogeneity really your goal here? That being the case, what is the point of having a discussion board to begin with?[/QUOTE]
It is quite simple and certainly no mystery, AY. Just as paleo-conservatism has always been protected here, historic, orthodox Christianity will be as well. As Okie stated above, saying "paleo-conservatism and Christian nationalism" is redundant, and that is certainly true. But while we have always been vigilant about protecting the former from those who sign-on and immediately start-in with insults like "bigot" or "knuckle-draggers" (think SomeAmishDude or Tupac4ever), I have been too lax in protecting the latter. Admittedly, that was out of a sincere effort to facilitate discussion here with non-believing nationalists to discover where we might find common cause. Sooner or later the obvious, disastrous results of same had to be acknowledged and addressed. This is what I have done with the latest policy revision. That is all.
OD is "the home of paleo-conservatism and Christian nationalism." While that may well be redundant, it leaves nothing to anyone's imagination as to what we are about here and where we position ourselves among all the political/ideological boards that are found here on the net. Just as paleo-conservatism has always been defended here from disruptors, name-callers, spammers and run-of-the-mill enemies, historic, orthodox Christianity will be also.
Not one member has been banned except for one new registrant that more or less requested I do so. I haven't even sent one PM to any potential infringer since revising the guidelines. Was "doctrinal homogeneity" our goal when we established this board as a safe haven for paleo-cons? If so, did we see a purpose in having a discussion board to begin with back then? You know as well as I the answer to those questions.
As to your question of the departing "over-reacting" or not, I will leave it to you and others to decide. I think my position is quite clear and as I stated above, I have no control over others' actions. The revised guidelines more specifically reflect my convictions and principles and the "popularity" of that matters to me not. I don't say that out of any effort to sound tough or anything like that. It's just that the content reflected on this board means much more to me than alexa ratings or having thousand of members participating, but in reality that has always been the case. In a month or two we may well have no one here because of this one simple revision/clarification. It baffles me to think why that would be the case, but nevertheless I'm perfectly willing to accept that result. Apparently there are some here who aren't and while unfortunate, to some degree it was inevitable and I don't see any sense in trying to keep glossing it over.
2004-03-07 08:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]I fully support the separation of Church and State in the US and elsewhere in the Western world because I believe that temporal and spiritual matters must be kept separate.
Well, I don't believe in the "separation of Church and State" and neither did the great majority of our founding fathers, early civil leaders who were Christian ministers and Presidents. The evidence that supports this nation being founded as a white, Christian Republic is quite literally overwhelming. In our present age it is groups like the ADL, ACLU and atheist jews and Marxists who consistently drag out that misconstrued Jefferson quote and wave it around like a bloody shirt. I find it contemptible.
I will also add an additional $.02 here in seconding Avalanche's observation that as soon as atheists/agnostics/pagans are shown the door, Christian unity will vanish here. Without a common opponent, OD's Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox will soon be at one another's throats. What then - a no criticism of Protestantism rule?
I'm sorry AY, but that is just ludicrous. Would you make that same statement if it were non-jewish/whites only participating here? Because that has certainly been the case and I don't remember you bringing that up to this point. This is why boards have administrators and moderators -- to establish the boundaries, define and articulate them and maintain civil discussion within that greater framework. If folks want a free for all then there are the libertarian boards to provide that.