← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Mike
Thread ID: 12236 | Posts: 27 | Started: 2004-02-09
2004-02-09 11:22 | User Profile
[url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/edpf[/url]
From: vibeke Ostergaard <triskelion14
y...> Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 11:53 am Subject: Why Racial Politics in America Have Failed
Why Racial Politics in America Have Failed
In the most basic terms, the problem facing Occidental Americans is that an Organic racialism basically doesn't exist in the states. Instead, one has racial hatred combined with a hazy desire to restore some ill-defined/misunderstood era like the `50s, the Third Reich, the Antebellum South, the Jeffersonian republic etc. in which whites (undefined) reign supreme. Public policy wish lists and slogans rather then ideological substance characterizes American White Nationalist thought. Unfortunately, Richard Weaver was correct that ideas (and their absence) have consequences.
An odd thing about the American scene is that inspite of the vigorous claims by self declared racists, paleos and "right-wingers" in general about how radically different they are the similarities are often startling. A very large segment of racist opinion in the states is totally committed to the ill-defined populist nostalgia which defines "the right" at large and have an outlook that is ardently individualistic, capitalistic and "strict Constitutional constructionalist" which occasionally lapses into the oxymoronic "National" Anarchism or in the case of the Freemen militas and Posse Comitatus an ultra arcane and totally irrelevant Constitutional doctrine based upon Christian Identity (C.I.) fundamentalism precepts which promotes something close to anarchic capitalism. A very sizable portion of American racialist and racist opinion (including some that claim to admire Hitler's NSDAP regime) adheres to a doctrinaire libertarianism infused with racism leaving them brimming over with obvious internal inconsistencies and the ineffectiveness such contradictions creates.
Such tendencies are an outgrowth of the earlier nativistic or "know nothing" movement which defined white American racism from the end of the Reconstruction Era through the 20s. The old fashioned nativistic tendency combines paleo-con nostalgia with the genetically nonsensical notion that Europeans not of Nordic/Germanic/Celtic ancestry are not white along with a protestant fundamentalism that treats Catholicism/Orthodoxy with at best benign neglect to open hostility at worst while being openly contemptuous of all non Christians. Naturally, such an outlook is totally incapable of attracting significant support among Occidentals in America and has been since the30s. Yet such intra-European chauvinism is still very clearly seen amongst the Nordic supremacists Like Richard Barrett's Cross Star, MSR, various Klan & C.I. grouplets and a surprisingly large segment of VNN and Storm Front posters leaving no question why so much of racist opinion is doomed to remain a pathetic non-entity.
A more sensible, modern strain within the nativistic tendency is best represented by David Duke and the various organizations he has created. These groups are genuinely serious about racial separation and addressing the jewish question while avoiding the anti Mediterranean/Slavic lunacy common in the earlier days of the KKK. Unlike much of the racial right in the states Mr. Duke has authored some fine critiques of racial egalitarianism and dealt with Jewry's threat to the existence of the Occident which is a great service that I commend him on. Otherwise, the groups he created have the same disposition towards nostalgic populism as do the paleos and the non-racist right. They have no core meta-political conception to guide them. No ideological canon describing what they want and why nor the men that produce such works like Pareto, Othmar Spann, Labriola; de Benoist or Faye. They lack any sort of expression of the Organicism so vital to all genuine Eurocentric thought or the interest in seeing what such schools have to offer. Not surprisingly, the absence of a well developed ideology means that such groups have only simple public policy wish lists rather then an actual comprehensive program for addressing how the renaissance they seek will be characterized or brought about. This in turn results in no comprehensive approach to activism which in turn breeds the defeatism and malignant cynicism ubiquitous in American racial circles which dooms potential recruitment. Unfortunately, what ever potential mass appeal Duke had is now squandered as a result of the mail fraud and embezzlement charges that have landed him in prison.
Again, the root of the problem is the ideological poverty among racist celebrities and organizations. This poverty has created a supremely malignant current within racial circles which has done much to make white racial politics viewed as freakish sideshow by society at large.
Imagine a typical, well adjusted American Occidental unhappy with state of things who suspects that the third world hordes engulfing his hometown are really not the blessing his pastor says they are. That his family might be worse off in a society with the racial demographics of Brazil . That a white nation may be preferable to what he lives in now and that perhaps his diversity councilor at the office, his old college professors and the media may be wrong when they say that racists are slobbering psychopaths. Imagine such a man turns off the Talmudvision for a couple of hours to look for "white power" sites and finds promotion of polygamy, praise of the 9-11 highjackers, sympathy for schoolyard mass murders, animated blood drips, calls for the extermination of all non whites, lynching inspired imagery, open misogyny and illiterate, obscenity strewn HTML graffiti. Would such man be more likely to conclude that the propasphere was right about those that object to multi-racialism or would he be prone to asking "where do sign up to help the struggle?"
The reason the kind of pathological dementia mentioned above is so common in American racial circles is that "the movement" is littered with people seething with rage over the destruction of Occidental America that lack any effective leadership, ideology or activist methods to follow. Instead, such people have nothing but hatred and anger to guide them so they impotently wallow in it occasionally being motivated enough to engage in hooliganism, marching about in farcical costumes, starting a hatecore band or the kind of website I mentioned earlier. This circle of self nullification jumps out at anyone that reads over "white power" message boards and sees screen names like "Death Angle 88", "On Your Knees Nigger Boy", "Bootboy Massacre 14/88" or reads the lyrics of bands like Chaos 88, Vaginal Jesus, Mud Oven or Blue Eyed Devils. The sad fact is that a great deal of the people that claim to want to save my race are raving psychotics looking for something to identify with to justify their dementia and pathetic existence. The effect of such antics is to attract the most maladjusted freaks and losers to "the movement" in which the occasional quality recruit becomes jaded and defeatist before leaving "the movement" in disgust.
Within the American scene the most significant organization that has an openly racial vision relatively free from populist nostalgia and the costumed, thugish and psychotic inanities I described above is the National Alliance.
Certainly, the NA is to be commended for it's book service which despite mixed reports about it's reliability during the past year offers a selection superior to all American distributors save perhaps Noontide Press. Many of it's shortwave radio/internet bulletins and articles published in it's various publications over the years have done an excellent job of pointing what's wrong with the current order which has been a vital service. I also will state that I have been honoured to know several dozen NA members of high caliber and sincerity. The efforts by the NA in Maine a year or two ago were the high point of NA activism and could have shown real promise of becoming a genuine community outreach program if they were perused consistently. Lastly, my very limited dealings with Mr. Strom have been positive and the websites created by both Mr. Strom and his wife are well designed with plenty of fine material which reflects well upon them both.
During the last two years or so the NA has been racked with countless scandals which I lack the capability to verify or refute although obviously much of what has been published by Bill White is likely to be baseless rumour mongering or malicious lying. Certainly I could care less about the accusations of the supposed moral depravity of various NA luminaries as no real evidence of such as has been made public so I see no reason to take it seriously. However, I can't casually dismiss all criticisms of corruption either because the numerous, detailed and disturbing reports by people I know and trust about illegally produced music and unpaid publishing royalties are worrisome. Further more, seemingly well supported denunciations leveled by long term former staff members and the current leadership's refusal to confront the seemingly well grounded and ongoing accusations/complaints with anything but secrecy, ad hominem attacks and unsupported accusations of all critics being federally paid fifth columnists/jews/freaks etc. have given me serious reservations regarding the suitability of the current leadership. In the end, the conflict over the current NA leadership is something I'll avoid addressing because proof either way is seemingly impossible to come by and my criticisms are rooted in foundational matters.
As with other groups and tendencies mentioned earlier the NA has always been crippled by it's ideological weaknesses although that failing is not as pronounced as it is with numerous other groups in the American racial scene.
Principally this weakness stemmed from the NA being solely the reflection of Dr. Pierce and the NA as an organization entirely in service to his vision and personality. The writings of the NA were until very recently almost entirely the product of Dr. Pierce whose literary output consisted of two wildly unrealistic novels detailing genocidal fantasies and an untenable revolution. The end result of Dr. Pierce's novels is that it has spawned many equally apocalyptic and unrealistic novels of poor quality which have provided a diversion from reality for far too many while helping the enemies of our race raise money and help solidify the popular perception of racists as violently insane totalitarians. An image buttressed by the insane thuggery with a political veneer found in Resistance magazine and the website that accompanies it. Unfortunately, the apocalyptic disposition of Dr. Pierce serving as an escapist flight from real world politics is a problem going back to the early days of the NA and it's forerunner, the National Youth Alliance. If one reads old issues of Dr. Pierce's Attack and National Vanguard one can find several calls for violent revolution, tips for the would be urban guerillas and hysterical predictions of impending societal collapse.
Perhaps most disturbing is the widely circulated quote below that has been floating about the net for at least four years which is claimed to have been made by Dr. Pierce in an old NA membership bulletin: "All of the homosexuals, race mixers, and hard-case collaborators in the country who are too far gone to be re-educated can be rounded up, packed into 10,000 or so railroad cattle cars, and eventually double-timed into an abandoned coal mine in a few days time. All of these people simply don't count, except as a mass of voters. Those who speak against us now should be looked at as dead men - as men marching in lockstep toward their own graves." If the quote is fabricated, and it may be, it should have been widely denounced years ago along with a detailed, public statement of what policy a potential NA regime would be towards dissidents and those that serve the current order.
The apocalyptic dream world of violent revolt and sudden societal collapse which has always been an element of Dr. Pierce's view of the world has had several unfortunate consequences. One has been the popularization of the notion that "the worse things get the better" which has provided an excuse for inaction on the part of those waiting for revolution rather then engaging in productive, public activism. The unfounded and unreal belief that the Turner Diaries is something more then wishful fantasy for would be bunker dwellers has I believe fostered a self indulgent extremism which has be amplified by the near total isolation of the NA "compound", it's autocratic structure and secrecy of the organization. All of these things frustrates it's stated hopes of attracting significant public support or building a sizable activist cadre.
Because the NA had represented the vision of it's founder as long as he was alive it comes as no surprise that it never merged with or absorbed any other organization nor formed a coalition for the purpose of seeking some regional basis of support. That reality alone reflects poorly upon the historical record of the NA. I'd also say that expectation of violent revolution appealed to a great many of the NA's members that have come and gone over the past 30 years or so. It seems reasonable that such people would become discouraged and drop out when worsening conditions have not produced the revolutionary climate they wanted. I've surmised that "waiting for Gotterdammerung" quality of the NA has prevented it from attracting the sort of serious, hard working and well adjusted people unhappy with the current Order needed for progress to occur. This aspect of the NA is I think a significant component of why it's never had more then roughly 2000 members at it's height.
Naturally, the autocratic nature of the NA prevented an orderly leadership transition when Dr. Pierce died. That failing seemingly was in large measure responsible for the internal problems which have plagued the organization during the past couple of years. The succession struggle shows yet again the problem with personality cults and the crucial limitations of the ideology of Dr. Peirce and the organization that reflected his vision.
Other serious problems have stemmed from the lack of any comprehensive ideology or vision being formed by Dr. Pierce or his successors. Unlike most others "movement" luminaries Dr. Pierce is to be commended writing the occasional if cursory articles about the problems of technological advancement, prosperity and the decline of Occidental man. Unfortunately, he never articulated a comprehensive explanation of our down fall nor sought to consistently popularize such an explanation made by others. Lacking is a detailed explanation of why we became susceptible to being manipulated towards our extinction as Mounier, Pareto, Mosca, DeBenoist, Van Den Bruck, Faye, Maurras and others have provided. The question of what should come next is, a best, a very difficult one when meta-political matters are largely overlooked as is the case with the American racial scene.
It should come as no surprise then that what sort of society a NA led state would create is very hard to envision. We have absolutely to idea what sort of economics it would have, how society would be ordered nor what sort of educational and legal philosophy would be instated. Would an NA regime seek to preserve national sovereignty or expand regional independence and the vast diversity of the cultural expression within Occidental humanity? Would it be imperialistic within or outside of Occidental nations? These are rather basic questions that most serious people would want to know before considering a vilified cause yet the NA never addresses those issues. Those sorts of basic, crucial issues have been addressed by the likes of De'at, the Marquis De La Tour Du Pin, Bacconier, D'Annunzio, Mosley, Spann and others and the movements they were associated with had far more success then the NA has had in far less time then the NA has existed. Those great thinkers and activists all articulated viable Eurocentric and Organic alternatives to the decadence that threatens our existence. They, as well as our decedents and ancestors deserve our recognition and the application of the wisdom they offered.
Standing marked contrast to the NA and the other groups/tenancies/people mentioned so far is the discouraging example of American Renaissance. Like most of the larger racial groups in the states AmRen has published several excellent articles detailing what's wrong with multi-racialism. Unfortunately, that is clearly enough to make racialism a viable proposition. In practical terms AmRen is a website, a magazine and an annual conference rather then an actual organization that has a real ideology and some notion of how to make things happen.
American Renaissance shares much in common with the populist nostalgia that is predominate within the American scene. Condemnations of capitalism are no where to be found, the "rights guaranteed the constitution" and the classical liberal ethic are never questioned but often praised. Meta-politics are nowhere to be found and equally absent are any real strategies for implementing what ever form of partial separation they propose.
Worse still is what AmRen actually stands for. Jared Taylor, AmRen's leader, clearly thinks jews are racially white which is genetically unfounded, suicidal in terms of our cultural and strategic well being and he actively recruits them. He openly consorts with the scandal ridden jew separatist Rabbi Schiller, has jews as featured speakers at his conference and writing for his magazine. More sinister still is that the AmRen elist at Yahoo has allowed anti-European posts made by jews and plenty of jewish chauvinism printed while censoring any criticism of the impact of jewry upon the Occident.
M..X. Rienzi wrote on the matter of an AmRen promoted jew: "Then we have the Jew Michael Hart, who publicly spoke about his plan for racial separation in America. The text can be found in: Michael Hart, "Racial Partition of the United States", pgs. 107-118 1998 In The Real American Dilemma ed. Jared Taylor Oakton, VA: New Century Books).
Hart envisions a three-way partition of America, between a "White separatist state (WSS)", a "Black separatist state (BSS)", and a multiracial diversity state. Since Hart presumably views Jews like himself as "White", they would have the option of going into the WSS. Well, we can't be surprised by that, or really blame Hart for that, regardless of whether we agree or disagree. But we can ask - what about groups other than "Whites" and Blacks? What about Asians and Hispanics for example? Do they go by default into the "diversity" state? What if they do not want to live with the Blacks which may remain in that state? OK, here comes the "kicker." In describing his putative WSS, Hart states that it "...might include some Asians and others." Incredible! And since Jews are presumably in the "White" category, who are the "others?" Hispanics? People of mixed race? What he is describing here is the possibility of a multiracial, "diverse" White "separatist" (sic!!!) state!" He goes on to state that "Once again, the WSS would be a multiracial "White" state that would just specifically exclude Blacks - who "just happen to be" the most anti-Semitic of all ethnoracial groups living in America today. Well then, who benefits? Do White nationalists - who desire racial homogeneity and full separatism - benefit? No. Do the "White masses" benefit. No . Of course Jews would benefit - they would avoid the danger of being the only minority in the WSS; instead, they would be "lost" in the stew of "Asians and others." they advance "diversity" even in the midst of proposing racial separatism!"
Few it seems at AmRen actually want racial separatism. Dr. Francis regularly writes wonderful editorials about the evils of multi-racialism and is apparently the only one at AmRen that openly objects to miscegenation on principle. As a result, he offers a valuable service and should be praised for doing so.
Unfortunately, he was clearly on record in AmRen's March `95 edition as viewing racial separation as impractical while hinting that it may be undesirable as well. The article is wrong in so many ways that I lack to time to refute the multitude of it's failings so I'll just quickly touch on a few.
Because Dr. Francis is a typical paleo-con in all of his stated beliefs outside of race as he assumes that preservation of the economic and legal framework that have failed to stop his countrymen's dispossession and have been tools of Occidental destruction for at least two generations are the very things that makes white preservation worth while and an uncontested defining element of what whites should work for in the future. Partitioning the nation, according to Dr. Francis, would be to give up the inspirational quotes of Lincoln and admitting that the constitution failed. Ignored naturally is that Lincoln destroyed genuine American federalism making it possible for the 10th Amendment to become the irrelevancy it is today and that yes, the constitution is like every other legal doctrine in that it failed to outlive the society that created it. The constitution did not stop the rise of cultural Bolshevism nor the decline of Occidental America but now buttresses those destructive trends. In other words, the constitution is a failed means for protecting Occidental America and no rational basis exists to think that it can be used to reserve the ongoing destruction.
He maintains that any white separatist state would quickly become multi-racial anyways because "whites want cheap labour". If Dr. Francis were perceptive he'd recognize that the white masses never wanted alien labour but rather that such is a wish of the plutocrats that also want the globalism he objects to. If one has as the basis of one's economy the maximization of profit and atomistic individualism as the basis of your culture, which logically flows from modern capitalism, anti-Occidental politics will inevitably follow suit just as it has in the states. Obviously, the solution is to admit that which has not worked for generations and is currently contributing to your demise needs to be jettisoned. Failure to do so means the final destruction of what remains of Occidental America, death of remaining constitutional niceties, classical liberalism, material comfort and everything else paleo-con faux racialists like Dr. Francis claim to cherish .
He correctly points out that National Revolutionary movements are never based upon race alone and mentions the NSDAP regime in this context. He however ignores that all of the NSDAP's cultural and economic policies logically emerged from it's racial doctrines which were Organic in nature from the very start of Anton Drexler's DAP in 1921. He likely does this because almost all Americans, the racially motivated included, have zero knowledge about the history of either the NSDAP regime's actual domestic policies, the intellectual development that preceded it or any understanding of the breadth and depth of Organicism as an expression of Eurocentrism outside of Germany. Because he doesn't understand these things he provides the strawman that biology alone is what racialism is about which he then uses as a justification to give up on separatism as unworkable. Of course without separatism the race he claims to be concerned about becoming nothing more then an anthropological curiosity is a consequence he actually denies while offering up the well worn lie that America has always been a multi-racial society.
What he ends up proposing is a continuation of multi-racialism and all the current institutions that Americans have with a few changes which he doesn't specify how they'll occur. These elements are: Whites must formulate a white racial consciousness that identifies racial and biological endowments as important and relevant to social behavior, and their own racial endowments as essential to the continuing existence of Euro-American civilization. Whites would simply no longer countenance nonwhite aggression and insults or the idolization of nonwhite heroes, icons, and culture; white children would be raised in accordance with what is proper to being white, and norms openly recognized as appropriate to whites would be the legitimizing and dominant norms of American society as they were prior to the 1960s. Racial guilt and truckling would end."
The undeniable reality that such a condition can't exist in a nation that's 33% + racially alien and that even if all alien immigration ended tomorrow whites would still be outbreed and facing demographic destruction is casually denied.
He then goes on with a typical wish list about ending political correctness and the entire system of anti-white destruction made possible by the institutions he admires with no hint at how those things can be done nor the mountain of internal inconsistences inerrant in such a vision. The crux of the matter is that Dr. Francis is no racialist but just another paleo-con who happens to be open about his discomfort with the realities of multi-racialism.
The bottom line is that AmRen is nothing more then a means for racially aware Occidental Americans sickened by Hollywood nazis and uneasy with the NA to waste away in a philo-Semitic wasteland of neutered, establishment safe faux nativism.
2004-02-10 01:30 | User Profile
Thanks Mike for the link and the article.
As usual Triskelion's writings are insightful and original.
2004-02-10 02:50 | User Profile
Few it seems at AmRen actually want racial separatism. Dr. Francis regularly writes wonderful editorials about the evils of multi-racialism and is apparently the only one at AmRen that openly objects to miscegenation on principle. As a result, he offers a valuable service and should be praised for doing so.
Vitebe says something good about paleo-cons! I don't know how many years of therapy - how his finger must have twitched - as he wrote these word :lol:
Unfortunately,
Well we knew it was too good to last.
he was clearly on record in AmRen's March `95 edition as viewing racial separation as impractical while hinting that it may be undesirable as well.
Oops. Eight years ago he wrote something he can't wholeheartedly agree with. 20 years more of penance are required before Triskelion can let another nice word sneak in the back door. :sad:
2004-02-11 05:24 | User Profile
V.O. says some good things about paleos because he trys to be fair and he thinks critically. The paleos here can't do either so they attack a man that lives by his beliefs no maater the cost. When the NA, Francis or anyone else does something right he will say so. Okiereddust failed to respond to anything he pointed out about Francis being against racialism because if he could have he would have shown how Francis changed his views or why V.O. was wrong. Unlike V.O. Okiereddust has nothing but praise for Francis and Buchanan, and attacks anyone that points out there short commings, no matter how wrong they are or how baddly they fail because he is a cheerleader rather then a thinker. He ignores the evil they preach while lying about what V.O. has done and says.
2004-02-11 08:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=BjarniTyrdal]Unlike V.O. Okiereddust has nothing but praise for Francis and Buchanan, and attacks anyone that points out there short commings, no matter how wrong they are or how baddly they fail because he is a cheerleader rather then a thinker. He ignores the evil they preach while lying about what V.O. has done and says.[/QUOTE]
Not really, Barney. A careful review of how it all came down will demonstrate that Okie grew into the position you describe here in reaction to VO's bottom line refusal to countenance any criticism of national socialism/Hitler and subsequent attacks on paleos because of same when push came to shove.
In short, Okie's tactics in these exchanges unmasked the hidden totalitarian rather deftly if I say so myself. Just wanted to clarify the matter.
God bless.
2004-02-11 13:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident] A careful review of how it all came down will demonstrate that Okie grew into the position you describe here in reaction to VO's bottom line refusal to countenance any criticism of national socialism/Hitler and subsequent attacks on paleos because of same when push came to shove.
[/QUOTE]
baloney.
2004-02-11 14:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident] In short, Okie's tactics in these exchanges unmasked the hidden totalitarian rather deftly if I say so myself. Just wanted to clarify the matter.[/QUOTE]
Toward further clarification, then, please: define "totalitarian," supply examples of VO's totalitarianism, and compare and contrast these with manifestations of Christian, and other, totalitarianism.
2004-02-11 15:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=NeoNietzsche]Toward further clarification, then, please: define "totalitarian," supply examples of VO's totalitarianism, and compare and contrast these with manifestations of Christian, and other, totalitarianism.[/QUOTE]
No.
2004-02-11 17:48 | User Profile
Texas Dissident,
FIrst my name Bjarni. Second I see you made zero attempts to address anything the V.O. wrote or deal with any of the lies and short comings made by your your vile chum Okie. I am not suprised because you can't. I am also not suprised that you lie so blatently about V.O. left this dying, wasteland of a board and why he finally had a enough of Okie of Okie's dishonour which you seem to to defend.
As to totalitarianism I will say that anyone that has read what V.O. says, heard him speak or talked to him will realize what you say has zero truth to it. Obiously, V.O. has lots of criticisms of Hitler and follows another sort of national socialism which is something that you and Okie pathologically lie about for reasons known only to you. Your unwilling to answer what the NeoNietzsche person asks shows that you have nothing at all to back up your position and the sickening behavior of Okie.
2004-02-11 18:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=BjarniTyrdal]I am also not suprised that you lie so blatently about V.O. left this dying, wasteland of a board and why he finally had a enough of Okie of Okie's dishonour which you seem to to defend.
Yes, I'll make my stand alongside Okie without apology. And now I shake the dust off my feet from this entire drama.
Take care, Barney. Wish you the best and give my regards to V.O.
2004-02-11 18:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=BjarniTyrdal]Texas Dissident, As to totalitarianism I will say that anyone that has read what V.O. says, heard him speak or talked to him will realize what you say has zero truth to it. Obiously, V.O. has lots of criticisms of Hitler and follows another sort of national socialism which is something that you and Okie pathologically lie about for reasons known only to you. Your unwilling to answer what the NeoNietzsche person asks shows that you have nothing at all to back up your position and the sickening behavior of Okie.[/QUOTE] The friends of Triskelion, you especially, are perhaps the best demonstration, in spite of his apparent work to reduce this tendency somewhat, of the totalitarianism of Triskelion and his camp of National Socialism one could possibly imagine. You can't handle the slightest disagreement without flying into a rage and uttering a string of epitaphs.
2004-02-11 18:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=NeoNietzsche]Toward further clarification, then, please: define "totalitarian," supply examples of VO's totalitarianism, and compare and contrast these with manifestations of Christian, and other, totalitarianism.[/QUOTE]I'll start with Encycopedia Britannica
form of government that theoretically permits no individual freedom and that seeks to subordinate all aspects of the individual's life to the authority of the government
2004-02-11 20:17 | User Profile
"Yes, I'll make my stand alongside Okie without apology. And now I shake the dust off my feet from this entire drama.
Take care, Barney. Wish you the best and give my regards to V.O."
Calling me Barney again shows you can't read your langauge or that your an abusive creap. You standing along along side Okie and your non anwser proves you as stupid and as dishonest as he id.
"I'll start with Encycopedia Britannica
Quote: form of government that theoretically permits no individual freedom and that seeks to subordinate all aspects of the individual's life to the authority of the government"
V.O. objects to statism and favours decentralized rule. As a result, he is not totalitarian and Okie shows again he is a dishonest scum.
"The friends of Triskelion, you especially, are perhaps the best demonstration, in spite of his apparent work to reduce this tendency somewhat, of the totalitarianism of Triskelion and his camp of National Socialism one could possibly imagine. You can't handle the slightest disagreement without flying into a rage and uttering a string of epitaphs."
Okie starts with the lie of totalitarianism which never attempts to support because he can not. V.O. and I work with far more dirverse people then Okie's sick little mind could ever imagine. I see no reason to be civil to things like Okie that can't/won't engage in honest debate and lie about a life long friend of mine while hinding behind a screen name. I attack him because he lie constantly and have proved to be a vile scum no different then the Antifa bastards that write the same tkind of things he does as a nameless coward on a board.
2004-02-11 20:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE]A careful review of how it all came down will demonstrate that Okie grew into the position you describe here in reaction to VO's bottom line refusal to countenance any criticism of national socialism/Hitler. [/QUOTE]
No. Sorry, Tex, you're outrageously off-base. Ostergard is not NS or WN [I]as these stances are commonly perceived by the masses.[/I] He has criticized both - on this very board!
[QUOTE]The friends of Triskelion, you especially, are perhaps the best demonstration, in spite of [I]his apparent work to reduce this tendency [/I] somewhat, of the totalitarianism of Triskelion and his camp of National Socialism one could possibly imagine. You can't handle the slightest disagreement without flying into a rage and uttering a string of epitaphs.[/QUOTE]
The italicized sentence fragment is the actuality; the rest is character-assassination. Tyndal is unquestionably a poor spokesman for Triskelion [I]but he is not Vikebe Ostergard.[/I] Critics of Buchanan at least point to the things he's actually said and written - Ostergard is being smeared because one of his supporters has poor table manners. We all know Trisk isn't the liveliest prose stylist but may I remind you that English is [I]not [/I] his first language? And he does a damn good job of masking that fact. A country mile better than I could communicate in his language, at any rate.
Bjarni Tyndal's fatal error was in mistaking Okie for somebody serious, who makes reasoned arguments. He's not. He's Pat Buchanan's ideological Jilly Rizzo, that's all.
2004-02-11 21:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Tyndal is unquestionably a poor spokesman for Triskelion [I]but he is not Vikebe Ostergard.[/I] Critics of Buchanan at least point to the things he's actually said and written - Ostergard is being smeared because one of his supporters has poor table manners.
Well he's a very close supporter, brought here by Vitebe himself. If his movement is made up of people like that, it will be totalitarian, regardless of what Triskelion himself, does, says, or is.
We all know Trisk isn't the liveliest prose stylist but may I remind you that English is [I]not [/I] his first language? And he does a damn good job of masking that fact. A country mile better than I could communicate in his language, at any rate.
I don't think I criticized his style, more his logic. In any event remember, he did grow up in England.
Bjarni Tyndal's fatal error was in mistaking Okie for somebody serious, who makes reasoned arguments. He's not. He's Pat Buchanan's ideological Jilly Rizzo, that's all.[/QUOTE] Oh no - who's Jilly Rizzo? :lol:
2004-02-11 21:37 | User Profile
"Well he's a very close supporter, brought here by Vitebe himself. If his movement is made up of people like that, it will be totalitarian, regardless of what Triskelion himself, does, says, or is."
Okie is more then a dishonest scum attacking a long time comrade of mine. He is boring as well. He keeps on about totalitarianism because it's the biggest word he knows but has nothing to support the claim of that being what I or V.O. is but he hopes if says it enough others that lack of honesty and honour will will buy his crap.
As to this forum it is clear that it has less then 20 active posters and Okie, Tex and people that act like them dominate it which is I think a big part of why it has so few readers and deserves less.
V.O. has no movement of his own. Instead, he simply supports efforts of others and gives what he can to his ideas and help others like me. If anything he trys to follow the example of my hero Arne Hentdorf and his brother Sven that was murdered some 8 years ago. What is needed is activists and sound ideas not leaders now. That is what V.O. and his comrades do. Some here are not capable of understanding such.
"I don't think I criticized his style, more his logic."
No, you lied about his position and attacked him as a person proving you have nothing to say about his ideas. Having been honest about paleos earned him Okie's hate while having done nothing compared to V.O. in political and business life has earned Okie's envy and spite. If you had anything to say about his logic you would have done so by now instead of mispreprenting him as every turn.
" In any event remember, he did grow up in England."
Wrong. He lived in the UK from age 12 to 14 before going back home. I know he speaks 4 languages well but he doesn't have the chance to speak English much and he admits that he does not do it so good. Known is that hundreds of Americans have no problem understanding him and like what he writes which makes it hard to beleive that Okie and Tex can't understand him. Rather they lack the morality to read him honestly and the personal worth to recognize what he has done and what he is.
2004-02-11 23:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=BjarniTyrdal]As to this forum it is clear that it has less then 20 active posters and Okie, Tex and people that act like them dominate it which is I think a big part of why it has so few readers and deserves less.
V.O. has no movement of his own.
No forum either. Of course he did have one, the late Polinco, populated with charming people such as like yourself. (Well, no that's quite unfair to the people at Polinco)
In fact that's if I'm not mistaken where this essay came from.
Instead, he simply supports efforts of others and gives what he can to his ideas and help others like me. If anything he trys to follow the example of my hero Arne Hentdorf and his brother Sven that was murdered some 8 years ago. What is needed is activists and sound ideas not leaders now. That is what V.O. and his comrades do. Some here are not capable of understanding such.
"Activists and sound ideas". Translation - critics and armchair philosophers.
Triskelion has done a great deal of successful activism and I respect him for that, even if the relationship I have developed with his group makes me want to take that with a little grain of salt. But he I'm afraid greatly overestimates the impact his schoolmarmley lectures really are going to have on things, or the desire and capacity of people to absorb them.
Keep on with your sound ideas, you brave activist you. I can just see how like at Polinco the world is beating a path to your door.
No, you and the rest of your type can't get anyone to drop by your stultifying little abode, and when we do give you a congenial place of abode all you can do is spend all your time shitting all over the carpet.
2004-02-12 02:08 | User Profile
"No forum either. Of course he did have one, the late Polinco, populated with charming people such as like yourself. (Well, no that's quite unfair to the people at Polinco)"
Damn your a stupid git. V.O. never ran any forum. Polinco was, I was told, run by some American that spoke Dutch. Thanks for showing again you know nothing about the things you right about. As to being charming I certainly am in comparision to a sick little coward like you.
"Activists and sound ideas". Translation - critics and armchair philosophers."
Say a filthy creep hiding behind a screen name that lacks the ablity to read what he attacks.
"Triskelion has done a great deal of successful activism and I respect him for that..."
Bullshit. You have no respect and have several posts to prove that you hold him in contempt.
"... even if the relationship I have developed with his group makes me want to take that with a little grain of salt."
Okie proves he can't read again. V.O. has no group but supports efforts of others. Even though he say he respect the activism of V.O. Ikie trys to cast doubts within the same sentance showing again that he lies constaintly.
"But he I'm afraid greatly overestimates the impact his schoolmarmley lectures really are going to have on things, or the desire and capacity of people to absorb them."
Translation: Okie is too stupid to read what V.O. has said so he assume that everyone else is as dull as he. We don't know what Okie has done in American politics but it can not be much or else he would not need to hide behind a screen name. V.O. however has done a lot of good work in several countries and has a great deal of supporters in many nations which I know as helped answer letters for him well in hospital. I see that the guttless waste that is Okie did not take me up on my challenge to demonstrate his electoral career, speak about schools he started (I doubt he did well at studying seeing what crap he writes), the businesses he created or conferances etc. he hosted. He has not because all he is a scum with a keyboard attacking those that do what he can not.
"Keep on with your sound ideas, you brave activist you. I can just see how like at Polinco the world is beating a path to your door."
Keep on lying you coward it's all you can do to save your sad self image. You know nothing of what I have done but you have proven your self below pity and worthless by your own words.
"No, you and the rest of your type can't get anyone to drop by your stultifying little abode, and when we do give you a congenial place of abode all you can do is spend all your time shitting all over the carpet."
Spoken like a brat locked in the privy. He attaks without reason those he can not understand and insults those that do more then he has considered. He clearly knows nothing about European politics and given his non response to V.O.'s articles here he has nothing worth saying about American situations either. Instead, he has little fits like a spoiled child when I defend the truth about my long time friend from his venom.
2004-02-12 02:41 | User Profile
Bjarni,
Good for you being here sticking up for a good man. Three cheers.
2004-02-12 08:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE]who's Jilly Rizzo?[/QUOTE]
Just a guess: He was a semi-famous 20th century malapropist?
2004-02-12 09:41 | User Profile
Well, he was ostensibly Frank Sinatra's "manager". But [I]no-neck thug [/I] is more like it; Jilly was Ol' Blue Eyes' personal strongarm, famed for kicking the piss out of anyone who displeased the Chairman. He once dragged a tourist into a Las Vegas bathroom to pound him into hamburger for the unforgivable offense of [I]Sinatra wanted to screw his wife[/I], repeating "Frank wants your woman" like a mantra as he worked him over. You can spot him in almost every Sinatra movie of the 60s in cameo roles. In 1992, his car was hit head-on by a drunk driver and he burned to death when the car exploded. He was not especially mourned, except by his family and his fellow thugs.
2004-02-13 23:12 | User Profile
I don't think the premise is correct here. Racial politics haven't so much failed as never been attempted. For several hundred years in America, there wasn't much need for racial politics because white dominance was assumed and assured by demographics, policies, and the naturalness of the order. Only in the past 50 years has that been severely challenged, and the response by whites of the past 50 years has basically amounted to race-silent conservatism. That, obviously, hasn't worked.
The toughest criticism is that an organic racialism does not exist. That's true. I don't know if we can simply create one by force of will. Doesn't sound very "organic," does it? But I think we've got no choice but to try to make one.
As for racial hatred combined with hazy desires and policy wish lists, well, yeah. That's me, and I hope you too. Gotta start somewhere.
2004-02-13 23:51 | User Profile
Fine post Mr. Lincoln (common name in America?) but for a couple of things.
People like Madison Grant, Stotard, Josey talked of racial decline long before '50s so what you now have was expected and predicted. What was tried was not racialist politics but simple race hatred which like the article said has not worked for 80 years or so.
You are right that pretending race does not matter or that culture somehow is seperateis for fools which is part why conservaitves are useless.
You are right that you can't force organicism. It exists naturally where as cosmopolitianism can't (it must be forced). How it expresses it is restored is the issue and requires meta-politics and all that come from it. Again, looking to what has shown promise some place else is worth looking at rather then pretending that something that has failed longer then anyone can remeber will some how work in future.
As to wish lists, they are worthless. Sixty years of failure has shown that so again, it is time to be honest about why a lack of ideas have failed and what to do about it. Americans can learn much from DeBenoist and Faye and lots of it is in ENglish so I hope it is given real thought by those that care.
2004-03-02 04:28 | User Profile
This board used to much more interesting to read, but recently it seems to be dominated by insults and long winded monologues. I think some of the people have a big data base of canned paragraphs they piece together as the siituation requires.
2004-05-05 17:57 | User Profile
falling back to sleep... zzzzzz There is no VO! Fact free with BT! To hell with OL!
2004-05-05 18:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Raskolnikov]Stop spamming this forum with your repetitive one-note song "there is no Vibeke." We've heard your piece already, no need to cover every thread in this forum with it. You've said your piece, we've read it and discussed it, so kindly pack up your monomania and take it over to some other website that hasn't been given the WI spam treatment yet.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. The one thread already going is quite enough.
2004-05-05 18:36 | User Profile
'Triskelion' has some interesting axes to grind, but ultimately he appears to have a limited acquiantance with day-to-day racial feeling in America; combined with a general Euro-stupidity concerning economic matters.
Of course many racialists white embrace what he terms 'libertarianism.' We are both too disparate internally, and too overwhelmed by non-whites, to embrace more 'organic' (i.e., quasi-socialist) doctrines. We need freedom to develop as Germanic/Nordic/Celtic white, Anglo-Celtic whites, just plain Germanic whites, Slavic whites, Italian whites, etc. There is no getting around tension between some of these groups, but it is vastly overriden by a common desire to see white racial identities flourish. White nationalism is primarily about the racial idenities of often very fluidly demarcated sub-groups of the overall white race. It does not typically involve claims about forging some new 'uber-white' race out of disparate elements.
At the same time, since there is such a fluid demarcation to, say, Germanic/Celtic identity, a lot of people with, say, Slavic or Italian blood (itself often rather Germano-Celtic) will enter into this identity, recognizing that, nonetheless, it based around specifically Germanic or Celtic genetics, which simply happen to be significantly related to Eastern Southern European genetics (even apart from the fact that Germanic and Celtic blood spread East and South). Certain kind of racial groups are more closely tied to 'American' in a lot of people's minds. But there is enough fluidity in these understandings to allow, say, Catholics into the mix--particularly as Ireland, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, etc., have sizeable Catholic populations. Likewise, many Slavs or Italians or even Spaniards will be seen as not terribly racially different.
This idea that Sam Frances is not a 'racialist' thinker is way off base. Nor does he ignore demographics. Perhaps Frances is wrong to imagine we can go back to certain conservative values, but he is absolutely correct in attack leftist ideology, and in thinking that this might lead to a situation where whites can carve out a valuable existence in the American continent. This idea that we could not deal with our problems even if most whites were on-board is far-fetched. The main problem is the lack of racial consciousness. 'Triskelion' is foolish not to recognize this.