← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · il ragno
Thread ID: 12127 | Posts: 56 | Started: 2004-02-03
2004-02-03 15:53 | User Profile
Submitted purely as a vehicle to stimulate board activity and discussion. Plus the damn thing's pretty straightforward and self-explanatory, which helps.
As we now enter our second century of Life Amid the Mass Media, I offer the opportunity to you all to seize upon the one celebrity or noted personage whose vaunted reputation, wildly-overpraised body of work and/or media-orchestrated public relations canonization never fails to make you splutter in near-uncontrollable rage and disgust. And by all means, don't restrict yourself to the pop star you heard on the radio this morning or the nonentity Jay Leno was telefelching last night. It could be any figure, past or present....Einstein, Margaret Mead, FDR, etc..... as well as Oprah or Hillary or Puffy. [I]Any [/I] field of endeavor, whether high-or low-profile.
The choice is your own. All I ask is that you take your time& flush all the toxins out of [I]your [/I] system and [I]onto [/I] the inflated reputation of your personal bete noire....where such poison is better served.
Have at it, kids, and [B]let em have it[/B].
2004-02-03 17:19 | User Profile
Elie Wiesel. Afterwards when I have more time, I will expostulate. This lying creep should be made to discuss publicly his damnable perfidy so that even my relatives will understand.
2004-02-04 08:15 | User Profile
Marilyn Monroe The Beatles The Rolling Stones Francis Ford Coppola Martin Scorsese Oprah Winfrey Elizabeth Taylor Tom Cruise J.D. Salinger Ronald Reagan The Kennedys Steven Hawking Steve Jobs
2004-02-04 12:15 | User Profile
Sigmund Freud - "the cure don't work if you don't pay" says Sigmund. Mahatma Gandhi - Pompous luvvie Dickie Attenboroughs film left things out. Nelson Mandela - Being imprisoned as head of the ANCs military wing doesn't confer sainthood. Sorry! Che Guevara - Argentinian frat-boy goes wild. Modern celebrities - Every last one of them.
2004-02-04 13:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sheridan]Marilyn Monroe The Beatles The Rolling Stones Francis Ford Coppola Martin Scorsese Oprah Winfrey Elizabeth Taylor Tom Cruise J.D. Salinger Ronald Reagan The Kennedys Steven Hawking Steve Jobs[/QUOTE]
Great list!
I did like some of the stuff the Beatles did, Coppola made one of the great films of all time "Apocalypse Now" (but I agree with you and Il Ragno that he made some crappy stuff, too), and Salinger's "Catcher in the Rye" is a truly fine novel (although the Franny and Zooey things left me cold.)
Ditto on about everything else, except that I'm not qualified to opine on Hawking at all so the ditto doesn't cover him.
Walter
2004-02-04 15:49 | User Profile
In music I'll go with the whole a-tonal thing, which was an ideologically driven farce. A-tonal music is no music, and its death will make the world a far more beautiful place. Anybody who ever listened to it, praised it, and/or (Heaven Forbid) composed it will face horrific eternal punishment (more on that below).
In literary criticism, the cake has to go to Derrida and Foucault. These sodomites (and Tribal ones, at that) taught two generations of white children to turn off their aesthetic faculties and treat great art at best like some dreary legal argument and at worst as a dirty joke scrawled on a sh*thouse wall. These were probably the greatest destroyers of beauty that the world has ever produced. They were Jews, though (please correct me if I'm wrong) and so they were just doing what they were programmed to do and we have the old "free will versus Heaven's goodness" problem. As your official Catholic theologian, I am compelled to conclude that these most egregious of all Tribesmen will spend eternity in the bosom of Abraham, which I have on good information is a sort of eternal bar mitzvah but where all the Maddy Albrights and Betty Friedans are transformed into pliant, dumb, Aryan shiktsas who hang on their every word. Oh, yeah, and there's lots of free caviar. I wish that I could conclude that they face a more agonizing fate, but I see no way around it. Theologically speaking.
In poetry, Alan Ginsberg. This guy was so bad that only massive Tribal media promotion could have provided him with any kind of fame. He was a toilet of a man- a sexual deviant who spewed his vomitous fantasies forever into the American psyche. He's condemned to clean the latrines at the Eternal Bar Mitzvah, which is something that he'd actually like as he spent much of his life cruising public restrooms.
In literature, Jack Kerouack. On the Road is the most overrated piece of crap I've ever read. Zero redeeming value. He was French, and a Catholic, and very probably a sodomite, but I won't send him to hell for being simply a bad writer. He was foisted upon us much more by others than by himself. Plus, Dean Moriarty truly was a rat for leaving him drunk and sick in Juarez, and so he deserves some sympathy.
In theology, Hans Kung. The very icon of a cavilling dissenter, full of himself and convincing others to emulate him. He lead countless numbers of the gullible to their destruction. There's a glowing bed of nails in Hell with his name on it. Imagine burning limestone being blown up his a$$ for several eternities. Enough said.
In politics, its a tie between MLK and the Kennedys for most undeserved canonization. In a photo-finish, I'd probably have to give it to the Marxist and sexually depraved MLK who posed as a Christian minister. But again we face difficult theological problems as to their eternal fates.
While the Kennedys, as cradle Catholics, will certainly burn forever in the unquenchable fires of Hell, their souls cringing forever in horrified astonishment at the magnitude of their Loss even as the vision of Paradise forever sears their eyes in unremitting agony, in Justice we simply cannot inflict this upon the Negro MLK. The Kennedys were men - in the full sense of the word. They therefore deserve to be punished as adults, and as Catholics at that, the indelible marks of the Sacraments heightening their agony like methadrine.
In contrast MLK, being the dumb Negro that he was, will simply go to Pimp Heaven, a place deduced by yours truly (again in my official capacity as OD theologian) as the only possible resolution of Heaven's Goodness, free will, and the diminished mental responsiblity of the Negro race. MLK is no doubt wearing a zoot suit (with a neat pleat!), gold jewlery, toothpick hanging from his distended African lips, with white hookers on both arms, and listening to the greats of the Jazz Age in an endless 1920's Harlem night with his bar tab paid by the boys at the Eternal Bar Mitzvah. And he gets to give sermons whenever he wants! (BTW, he doesn't like caviar).
For lying, snivelling political slime balls, I really have to give it to Robert McNamara. This guy was the butt boy of the rich and powerful - a man who lied us into killing millions of innocent Vietnamese. A Catholic, too, if I'm not mistaken. He'll burn. Forever. :twisted:
I know that I've left out some very deserving individuals. Please, send in your requests and I'll pass eternal judgement!
Walter
2004-02-04 17:06 | User Profile
Walter,
Great choices. Foucault was a Roman Catholic though.
2004-02-04 17:14 | User Profile
Roast 'em for Jesus, Walter! Nice and slow.
2004-02-04 17:35 | User Profile
Margaret Thatcher:
Benefits of economic reforms debatable. More importantly, strongly hinted at cracking down on immigration in speeches before the 1979 general election, wooing the National Front. Subsequent 18 years of Tory rule did nothing to reverse muliracial society. Promoted lots of members of a certain "ethnic minority" in her Torah party cabinets.
2004-02-04 17:43 | User Profile
I offer the opportunity to you all to seize upon the one celebrity or noted personage whose vaunted reputation, wildly-overpraised body of work and/or media-orchestrated public relations canonization never fails to make you splutter in near-uncontrollable rage and disgust.
Toby Keith -- without a doubt. What a poser! Wraps himself up in the American flag, cynically making money off of Bush's immoral wars. Tries to pose as an 'outlaw' when in reality the guy is as politically correct as can be. If he really wanted to be an outlaw, he'd come out against the war in Iraq. See where his career would go then.
2004-02-04 18:29 | User Profile
Cal Thomas, moron pro-regime conservative "commentator" who has yet to learn even reasonably effective English but managed to learn a few Hebrew phrases to throw at Israeli audiences.
Peggy Noonan, ditto, except she sucks up to leftist feminists instead of Hebrews (wherever there might be a distiction.)
As long as this is an international affair, let's not give Queen Elizabeth a free pass either. Even a figurehead monarch should be able to indicate displeasure here and there at the way things are heading for the West in general, if not only the UK. Aside from wincing a lot during the Thatcher years, the lady seems to think the world is working out OK, which indicates either treason or idiocy.
2004-02-04 22:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ragnar]Cal Thomas, moron pro-regime conservative "commentator" who has yet to learn even reasonably effective English but managed to learn a few Hebrew phrases to throw at Israeli audiences.
Peggy Noonan, ditto, except she sucks up to leftist feminists instead of Hebrews (wherever there might be a distiction.)[/QUOTE]
If we're talking about movement cons, there's a long list of mediocrities: Neil Cavuto Linda Chavez Chuck Colson Ann Coulter Larry Elder Edwin J. Feulner Rich Lowry Michelle Malkin Oliver North Bill O'Reilly Dennis Prager Joe Scarborough Rich Tucker Emmett Tyrrell Armstrong Williams
I pulled this list off TownHall.com's subscriber list. Can anybody honestly call these people good writers?
2004-02-05 02:06 | User Profile
Il Ragno,
This is a hard one. It depends of which piece of puffed up pompus ass has me mad at the moment. For now, it is neo-cons. Two come to mind.
Sean Hannity, for being such a self righteous hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil dumb ass. His latest idiotic comment was talk about "George W. Bush's heroic national guard service." Jesus, give me a break. This goes beyond the usual sycophancy.
Newt Gingrich, the Pillbury dough boy (in more ways than one) disgraced ex-speaker of the house who is treated like some sort of elder statesman. When I see his fat face on t.v. pontificating on his neo-con b.s. I find myself wishing him one day in the hottest corner in hell for his lying and outright treason. This "court historian" at one point reached a fork in the road when he became speaker. One road led to being a C.F.R. waterboy. The other, while dangerous, was the honorable one that other American leaders in the past have taken- the road to greatness.
Newt spurned that and deserves our total and everlasting contempt.
As for the others I could fill up a sizable cattle train.
2004-02-05 06:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=NeoNietzsche]Roast 'em for Jesus, Walter! Nice and slow.[/QUOTE]
Amen to that, brother NeoNietzsche!
Say, where've you been, youngster?
The Inquisition misses you! :alucard:
Walter
2004-02-05 08:46 | User Profile
It's tempting but I can't include people like Hannity, Podhoretz, Cal Thomas et al on this list. I realize just the fact that they're raking in easy green and can reach wide audiences with their blather is maddening, but nobody but a mouth-breathing 'tard would consider these people great or gifted. Jesus, if you think Cal Thomas is a riveting prose stylist, then you move your lips when you read. Which obviously isn't often.
Interesting that you cite the Beats. I went and bought a copy of Viking's PORTABLE BEAT READER, as thorough an anthology as exists, determined to see what all the hubbub was about. (I'm still wondering what gives.) I doubt many Beat volumes have been purchased voluntarily, though. It's the kind of genre that, if it weren't routinely assigned in college, would never be read.
Re theater & literature, I'd tab [COLOR=Blue]David Mamet [/COLOR] for my no-prize. That he gets hosanna'd for his puerile, hamfisted, obvious, bloody stupid work frankly amazes me; his dialogue is painfully stylized and artificial, and his vaunted lowlife characters remind me of nothing drawn from any life on this earth, so obviously are they writer's constructs. AMERICAN BUFFALO is painful to endure, all right, but not because of any Poignant Tragedy of the Human Condition. Mamet's popularity has done nothing but give serious drama a bad name, and bad theater a good one.
In world politics, [COLOR=Blue]Nelson Mandela[/COLOR]. There are no doubt worse politicians than Mandela, but none are butt-munched with more messianic ecstasy by literally everyone with an open mike or a syndicated column. He's treated like a cross between the Pope and Santa Claus every time he comes to the States, while the overturned burning Buick that was once South Africa has been flensed from the memory of every pundit who once scored cheap [I]I am not a racist [/I] points by demanding South Africa dig its own grave and toss itself in to await the quicklime to show how sorry they were. Even Zimbabwe and Mugabe get a [I]little [/I] attention from the media, but South Africa has ceased to exist to the ZOG press, lest the plastic halo slip above Nellie the Nog's head, and the dangling price tag become suddenly visible.
In art, without question: [COLOR=Blue]Stuart Davis[/COLOR]. Rather than me beat my gums telling you about this fraud (without whom, no Warhol or Liechtenstein), here is a verbatim biography. Note that Davis' work is so awful, his reputation so vaunted, that the essayist schizophrenically veers between both throughout. When a painting has to be explained to you before you even know what the heck it is you're looking at, you're being conned; but when you're looking at that painting in a [I]museum[/I], the entire culture is being conned. Thanks to Davis, we've been getting sold bridges ever since.
[QUOTE][B]Stuart Davis: American Modernist[/B]
Art historians deem Stuart Davis (1892-1964) one of the great artists of 20th-century America. In the '20s and '30s, when most of his contemporaries were using 19th-century techniques to depict America, Davis--like Sheeler, Demuth, Marin, and Weber--delved into Modernism, and with it helped portray the country as it sped off the farm and into the city. Today, his easy-to-recognize mature canvasses, with their letters, shapes and wavy lines laid out in blaring colors, occupy a place of honor in museums across the country.
Davis experimented freely en route to his signature style. He brought the latest European styles, most notably Cubism, to such American subjects as Gloucester harbor, New York City, advertising, automobiles, and jazz music. He modified Cubism so that it differed from the French by throwing in English words and American product logos, and using hard-edged shapes and high-keyed, solid colors, giving the whole a jumpy, rhythmic design on a kingsize scale. His bending European Cubism into a native idiom was an early step on modern art's voyage from Paris to New York.
Davis's Cubist-inspired advances provide an important link to later developments in American art. His espousal of Modernism helped set the stage for the hegemony of abstraction in Post-War America. Because he borrowed motifs from popular culture, he is rightly regarded as the progenitor of Pop Art. And the simple hard-edged geometry of his late work looks forward to Minimalism in the formalist era. More generally, his stylistic consistency is cited as a model of integrity in American art.
This all sounds like a formidable achievement, but ultimately Davis is of greater historical than aesthetic interest. Were it not for his having been born in the United States, art historians would dismiss Davis as a second- or third-tier offshoot of French Cubism. But he was an American, and on the 100th anniversary of his birth no less an institution than The Metropolitan Museum of Art has meticulously assembled an exhaustive survey.(1) The 175 pictures in "Stuart Davis: American Painter" present the alpha-omega of the painter's 50-year career.
Davis entered the profession almost by default and, to judge from his earliest work, despite negligible talent. His father was art director for the daily Philadelphia Press, and young Davis was drawn into the orbit of the newspaper's illustrators. Among them were four members of "The Eight"--William Glackens, George Luks, Everett Shinn, and John Sloan. As soon as Davis left high school he went to New York to study with their mentor, Robert Henri. The student's works emulate the impressionistic brushwork and urban lowlife subjects that earned Henri's group the nickname "The Ashcan School."
With some help from Sloan, Davis was soon publishing cartoons in Harper's Weekly and The Masses. Then, at the age of 21, he was one of the youngest exhibitors in the legendary New York Armory Show, an event he later called "the greatest single influence I have experienced in my work."(2) Immediately, Davis's art paid homage to van Gogh and Matisse, whose canvasses impressed him with their non-referential color and abstract drawing. "Henceforth," he later declared, "the American artist realized his right to free expression and exercised that right."
For Davis, the "right to free expression" meant liberty to diverge from realism. "No work of art can be true to nature in the objective sense," he asserted. "The nearer it approximates the natural appearance of objects the more it is likely to be far away from art." The inevitable outlet for such vehement anti-realism is, of course, abstraction. Thus, Davis theorized that "the act of painting is not a duplication of experience [i.e., realism], but the extension of experience on the plane of formal invention."
He had ample opportunity to practice "formal invention" during WWI, serving as map maker for Army Intelligence. Considering the two-dimensional, diagrammatic character of his mature style, this stint as a map maker proved as important in his artistic evolution as did the Armory Show. By 1921 he was painting simulated collages of cigarette papers and advertising labels. A proto-Pop work like Lucky Strike (1921), for example, has almost no sense of spatial depth.
Davis tested his hand at the multiple viewpoints and overlapping planes of Picasso's and Braque's Synthetic Cubism. Then in 1922 he wrote in his notebook, "Starting now I will begin a series of paintings that shall be rigorously logical American[,] not French. America has had her scientists, her inventors, now she will have her artist." What followed were Cubist still-lifes substituting American objects for French ones: apples for oranges, beer for wine, the sports page for Le Figaro, and voilá--American Cubism. He continued with a string of straightforward, iconic depictions of homely domestic items, the finest of which, Edison Mazda (1924), consists of a blue lightbulb and gray wineglass in front of an upright blue-and-gray portfolio.
The American modernist enterprise climaxed with the "Eggbeater" series (1927-28), a group of four compositions that abstract a rubber glove, an electric fan, and the titular eggbeater in a kind of skewed Purism. Often called "seminal," this series is vastly overrated. The spatial mutation, formal distortion, and chromatic diversity seem arbitrary, ungoverned by a rational or even a purely aesthetic order. Though apologists point to the "Eggbeaters" as a daring essay in American abstraction, these works confirm that even at his best Davis was a naive Cubist.
In 1928, Davis had a chance to explore the roots of his affected idiom when Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, an early patron, financed his 15-month sojourn to Paris. He briefly met Léger and Gertrude Stein, but remained on the fringe of the artistic community and made no great strides in his art. In fact, he reverted to illustration, painting insipid, candy-colored streetscapes. As one art historian put it, "seduced" by his exotic surroundings, Davis "confected idealized stage sets for a nostalgic musical of an American artist in Paris."
During the Depression, Davis worked in the mural painting division of the Works Progress Administration, and his art took a decidedly political turn. Despite the Stalinist crackdown on the Soviet avant-garde, "Davis chose to perpetuate the idealistic dreams of the Russian revolution." He held that the future of art was modernism, the style that reflected the new industrial truth, and that "in its internal form and in its external relation to reality, modern art could stimulate radical change in the political and economic structure of America." Just what sort of change, and how it would be brought about, remains unclear. But given the intellectual climate of the period, it certainly would have involved a cultural resurrection of the working class.
As to how the revolution would be effected, Davis seemed to call for a hybrid of anecdote and abstraction. As the stylistic battle raged in the '30s, he sided with neither the abstract nor the realist camp. On the one hand, he fervently advocated abstraction, saying, "To regard abstract art as a mysterious irrational bypath on the road of true art is like regarding electricity as a passing fad." Yet, on the other hand, he cautioned against completely non-objective art, stating, "for an event [painting] to have meaning for us, we must have had experience with the objective elements that compose it."
According to Lowery Sims, Associate Curator of American Painting at The Metropolitan, Davis believed the emotive impact of visual forms is more important than their specific subject matter. Yet, one observes that he was reluctant to abandon the kind of representational cues that are evocative, if not tantamount to, specific subjects. Take his 1932 Mural (Men without Women), commissioned for the gentlemen's lounge of Radio City Music Hall. Cartoonish renderings of smoking paraphernalia, playing cards, barber poles, automobiles, sailboats, and other "gentlemanly" appointments are scattered without apparent order.
Another example is Abstract Vision of New York, executed for The Museum of Modern Art's 1932 American murals show. The Empire State Building, derby, bananas, and assorted motifs refer to a contemporary New York political figure, Al Smith, nicknamed "The Top Banana." This pictographic tabloid sheet conjures not by abstract means, but by literary symbols, puns, and allusions. In both murals, in fact, abstraction contributes little to the overall meaning.
Though Davis peppered his 1930s compositions with popularist anecdotes and references, he fell far short of his revolutionary aims for more than one reason. For one thing, American abstract art did not command the attention that the Regionalism of Benton, Wood, and Curry did. But, even if Davis' work had reached a wider audience, its impact would have been minimal for its message was diffuse. Davis never really figured out how to put abstraction to use--in short, how to communicate with it. While he maintained that "abstract art is realistic and has meaning because it expresses common experience," he failed to realize that a "common" form meaningfully abstracted by the artist, will often be differently interpreted by another viewer. The entire context shifts, and the artist's intention is lost. To be fair, it should be pointed out that the question of how to visually structure meaning via abstraction has remained virtually unanswered throughout the 20th century. Davis cannot be faulted for being of his time.
If Davis's work is not especially efficacious, neither is it particularly uplifting. One tends to concur with critic Edward Alden Jewell who observed of a now-lost work, "If Davis here painted a symphony, it must be esteemed in no way analogous to any symphony--at least any good one--that I have listened to in the concert hall." That's about right. Aside from his expressionistic self-portraits and landscapes of 1919, and the iconic still-lifes from the mid-1920s, Davis's work from the 1940s is by far his best, with a lively collage effect that is optically vibrant, even volatile at times. Davis peaked in small works like Arboretum by Flashlight (1942), Ultra-Marine (1943), and The Mellow Pad (1945-51).
But by the early 1950s, his canvasses became increasingly reductive as he reworked earlier compositions. Even classics like Rapt at Rappaport's (1952) and Semé (1953) are sections of a 1922 landscape, colored differently and overlayed with "X"s, "O"s, and other glyphs. In fact, he repeated himself so often over the course of his career that it seems like he has at most 10 or 15 different compositions that deal with half as many subjects. Semé contains the intriguing word "Eydeas," a fusion of "Eye" with "ideas." One can toy with the meaning of the picture, but characteristically, its "Eydeas" are murky, at best. By this time, however, Davis's renown was firmly established. He had taught for many years and received numerous awards and prizes. For better or worse, Davis had become an American master.
The inevitable centennial exhibition, his first major retrospective in a quarter century, does little to burnish Davis's reputation. Indeed, for such an enormous show, it is remarkably impoverished aesthetically. A more selective display would have served the artist better. But then, it would have been less honest about the depth and character of his aesthetic accomplishment. So painstaking and thorough an excavation hardly seems worth the bother.[/QUOTE]
Jpegs of Davis "masterworks" available at:
[url]http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/davis/[/url]
Here's a thumbnailed sample:
[IMG]http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/davis/eggbeat.small.jpg[/IMG]
2004-02-05 14:31 | User Profile
I detest post-Police [B]Sting[/B] and his legion of worshippers. Come to think of it, I don't have much time for anyone with a one-word name.
Also, if I never hear from Robin Williams again, it will be way too soon.
2004-02-05 14:42 | User Profile
Eric Clapton gets my award for the most overrated guitarist who ever lived. This guy is good, but damn, he's hossan'd as the second coming of the great guitar god-in-the-sky. He, himself, grovels before the shrine of "O-great-black-man, you taught me everything and there'd be no rock and roll without your Holy guidance"....give me a f'king break. He plays a few notes in a pentatonic scale, couple of bends and a little vibrato and the sheep all fall down on their knees. I don't get it, I really don't. After his days with Cream, he's done nothing that impressive to deserve god-like status. There's hundreds of guitarists who blow him away.
On the opposite scale, I'd say David Gilmour of Pink Floyd is the most [B]underrated[/B], least praised of guitarists, who blow away Clapton.
2004-02-05 14:53 | User Profile
Ugh, this topic is tres difficult. Like trying to decide which species of intestinal parasite is the most painful.
All I can come up with at the moment is the entertainment/politics category (now that they've essentially merged), and it would have to be a two-way tie between Dennis Miller and Bill Maher (whose name isn't fooling anyone with that honker). Miller at least had talent at one time, but his faux-irreverent tackling of "dangerous" characters and "forbidden" topics reminds me nothing so much as the small, weak schoolkid who picks on a even smaller, weaker kid to prove how tough he is. Maher barely needs explanation. The show "Politically Incorrect" that was anything but combined with Maher's witless superiority complex sets my teeth on edge.
Honorable mention goes to the crew at Fox News. I'm sure one of these days that makeup is going to make a mistake and forget to remove the morning hosts' little brown moustaches and sh*t-stained bibs. I'll set the VCR for that one.
2004-02-05 16:10 | User Profile
My nominee: [COLOR=Red][B]Cassius Clay, a.k.a. Muhammad Ali[/B][/COLOR]
Liston took a dive, as anyone who sees the film footage can plainly see.
Ali was an obnoxious loud-mouthed bully, which is to say, a typical Nigger athlete. He had good fighting, no, BOXING skills, but to see his character on full display I recommend the documentary (I saw it on HBO, I think) about the first Ali / Frazier fight in NYC. He tops my list; even other celebs fawn over this guy.
Anyway, boxing puts white fighters at a disadvantage; less reach, slower reaction time, glass jaw...and RULES. Whites dominate the various no-holds-barred tournaments. Ohh...to see Ali strut and bark in the ring with the likes of Frank Shamrock or Bas Rutten. It'd be short but sweeeet!
My other nominee: [B][COLOR=Red]Bill Buckley[/COLOR][/B]
Ugh...when I think of how I once admired this fraud, coward, and traitor!
To XMetalHead: I'm with you on Clapton. I saw him during the "from the cradle" tour. He had a talented band, but the egomaniac took EVERY solo. I kid you not...EVERY LAST ONE...and they were all four or five choruses! He lacks the vocabulary to be interesting for even two choruses.
David Gilmour is truly a great guitarist. Other underrateds: Lindsey Buckingham (the MOST underrated, in my view), and Joe Walsh. Beautiful tone and phrasing, always playing in the service of the song. Mature musicianship. You should listen to Robben Ford, too.
2004-02-05 20:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Eric Clapton gets my award for the most overrated guitarist who ever lived. This guy is good, but damn, he's hossan'd as the second coming of the great guitar god-in-the-sky. He, himself, grovels before the shrine of "O-great-black-man, you taught me everything and there'd be no rock and roll without your Holy guidance"....give me a f'king break. He plays a few notes in a pentatonic scale, couple of bends and a little vibrato and the sheep all fall down on their knees. I don't get it, I really don't. After his days with Cream, he's done nothing that impressive to deserve god-like status. There's hundreds of guitarists who blow him away.
On the opposite scale, I'd say David Gilmour of Pink Floyd is the most [B]underrated[/B], least praised of guitarists, who blow away Clapton.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Clapton is way over-rated.
Ditto on Pink Floyd.
2004-02-06 05:23 | User Profile
Damn, this is a toughie. It would be far easier for me to list the relative handful of people I don't think should be Mineshafted, but I'll take a crack at it......
Coretta Scott Kang 'n' her brood of Mini Mahtin Loofahs: The most insufferable of all the Pro Nigras; the way every kahnservantive political ho from Curious George on down performs public cunnilingus on Big Mama in the laughable hope that the jazzbo electorate will suddenly think "Dese Republimicans is PHAT!" gives me the dry heaves. These scum have been gorging on Mike's bloated carcass so long, they're probably reduced to using his skull to add a little nigfunky flava their black-eyed peas.
Madonna: That gap-toothed old stank- eh, why bother....
Big Abe Foxman: I have a very special hatred for Abie Baby. Oh yes, I do....
Moe Seligman Dees: See Foxman, Big Abe
"Sumner Redstone": "Murray, it's just a friggin' shower, for God's sake! Hey - would I shit you?"
Edgar Bronfman: Whack! Whack! WHACK!!
Liz Taylor: Never met a death-spreading turd burglar she didn't like.
Rabbi Marvin Hier: I'll never forget the way this ugly-ass jewwwboy runt said the name "Buford" with classic Brooklyn yid goy-contempt when Furrow snapped a few years back - as if he was talking about an inbred character from Deliverance. This from a creature named Marvin.
Gloria Allred: Sick of seeing/hearing the hideous old jewhag. Literally.
Charles Krauthammer: I'm sure Hell is wheelchair accessible.
George Will: May he scream for all eternity for his rejoicing in the mass murder of Southerners and Germans.
Karl Rove: a race traitor Buddy Lee.
I agree with the Clapton-Gilmour sentiments: Clapton isn't bad, but he hasn't put out anything great since Derek & the Dominoes. His nig-fawning makes me want to puke as well. Gilmour, on the other hand, is a wonderful guitarist. Such feeling in his playing - and far more consistency than the ballyhooed Mr. Clapp.
2004-02-06 05:58 | User Profile
This is fun, I am sure I could think of a lot more given time...
-Andrew Lloyd Weber - Awful -Tom Hanks - There're worse actors in Hollywood but none more acclaimed. -Disney - Not exactly family entertainment anymore. -Woody Guthrie - Anyone who thinks working class people in the 30's listened to music this monotonous and sterile is a blockhead. Listen to The Sons of the Pioneers for some real country roots. -Jim Carey - Still trying to prove he's a 'serious' actor. -Kurt Cobain - Main accomplishment : provided a new format for the mass production of rock after the glam-rock model had been run into the ground. -Any performer who thinks there is something unique about "rap/rock fusion" even though its been around as long as rap itself. -Alvin Toffler - The Third Wave said less in 300 pages than Marshal McLuhan had said in three pages 15 years earlier. -Maya Angelou - Bad compared to even other black poets like Countee Cullen -Karl Marx - How the hell was humanity's good side going to create socialism if all past society was built on domination and oppression? -Noam Chomsky - Well qualified to discuss linguistics, not much else. -Seinfeld - The show about how people obsess over nothing. -Quentin Tarantino - This makes me laugh.. -James Cameron - Spent so much time and effort to make the set of Titanic authentic, only to have it ruined by casting a bunch of hollywood snots totally incapable of genuinely acting according to the values and mannerisms of turn of the century Europeans. -Hell, might as well throw in Picasso, Dali was a greater artist but wasn't quite as palatable to the leftists.
I feel a little better now...
-LLen
2004-02-06 08:43 | User Profile
Wow, what a cool topic. So many to choose from and so little time in which to do the choosing. Here are a few that must be mentioned (though most probably already have been):
Journalists: Virginia Postrel, David Frum, Jonah Goldberg, Stephen Schwartz, David Brooks, Max Boot, Michelle Malkin, Rich Lowry, Linda Chavez, Charles Krauthammer, William F. Buckley
Politics: Alan Greenspan, Rudolph Guliani, John McCain, William Bennett, FDR, JFK, MLK, Edward Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Newt Gingrich, Bob Dole, the entire Bush family, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Carol Mosley-Braun, Janet Reno, Robert Rubin, Ed Koch, Harold Washington, Angela Davis (more of a Bay Area nuisance than a national one, but she deserves mention - she's currently a "professor human consciousness," whatever the Hell that is, at U.C.-Santa Cruz)
Actors: Tom Hanks, Michael Keaton, Danny DeVito, Robin Williams
Musicians: Jimi Hendrix, Elvis Presley, John Lennon, Eric Clapton, Kurt Cobain, Courtney Love, Phil Collins, any member of the Jackson family, any other negroes
Artists: Pablo Picasso, Andy Warhol, Jackson Pollack, Georgia O'Keeffe (a genuinely talented artist who's also a close relation of mine, but who's talent has been WAY overblown just because she lacked a Y chromosome, so to speak)
Athletes: All of them (especially the negroes, and among those, especially the ones who play basketball - I swear, when I lived in San Diego, I half expected to turn on the news see the sports guy on KNSD vigorously masturbating while calling out the names "MAGIC JOHNSON! MICHAEL JORDAN!" over and over again. The way this guy so clearly obsessed on those two trousered apes was truly appalling and I don't think I'm just kidding about the homoerotic content - I seriously believe the guy wanted to BED those two animals!)
2004-02-06 09:08 | User Profile
After further consideration, I've decided to commute the Kennedys' sentence from an enternity in the Lake of Fire to a mere 10,000 years in Purgatory.
This because they were really just shanty micks whose Da made it big when the Sassanachs of Boston stupidly tried to tell the Micks and the Pollacks they couldn't drink. They were newly rich, in a word, and treated the whole thing like a couple of green kids playing their first poker game. While certainly morally culpable, under the circumstances I think that an eternity in Hell is a tad excessive.
Therefore, in my capacity as OD's Grand Inquisitor, I hereby commute their sentence to 10,000 years in the darkest pit of Purgatory. :alucard:
Yours truly,
Walter Cardinal Yannis
2004-02-06 12:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Eric Clapton gets my award for the most overrated guitarist who ever lived. This guy is good, but damn, he's hossan'd as the second coming of the great guitar god-in-the-sky. He, himself, grovels before the shrine of "O-great-black-man, you taught me everything and there'd be no rock and roll without your Holy guidance"....give me a f'king break. He plays a few notes in a pentatonic scale, couple of bends and a little vibrato and the sheep all fall down on their knees. I don't get it, I really don't. After his days with Cream, he's done nothing that impressive to deserve god-like status. There's hundreds of guitarists who blow him away.
On the opposite scale, I'd say David Gilmour of Pink Floyd is the most [B]underrated[/B], least praised of guitarists, who blow away Clapton.[/QUOTE] I totally agree that Clapton is one of the most (if not THE most) overrated guitarist. I've gotta disagree with you about David Gilmour, though. I do like his music, but I don't think his playing is anything special. I've never heard him play anything that I couldn't figure out pretty easily. I don't have all of Pink Floyd's albums, though, so maybe I've missed his best work.
Other guitarists that I think are very overrated include Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Joe Perry, Kirk Hammet (damned sell-out), and quite a few others. It's also worth mentioning that 99% of guitarists who play for any "alternative" band really don't know anything other than a few simple chords and how to bleach their hair.
For the most underrated guitarist, my vote goes to Andy LaRocque of King Diamond. That guy is !!PHENOMENAL!! His speed, articulation, and feeling are just stunning.
2004-02-06 13:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Clapton isn't bad, but he hasn't put out anything great since Derek & the Dominoes. His nig-fawning makes me want to puke as well. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I agree.
What do you think of John Mayall, who if memory serves discovered Clapton?
Walter
2004-02-06 14:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Artists: Pablo Picasso, Andy Warhol, Jackson Pollack, Georgia O'Keeffe (a genuinely talented artist who's also a close relation of mine, but who's talent has been WAY overblown just because she lacked a Y chromosome, so to speak)[/QUOTE]
I agree on O'Keefe - she was talented but over-hyped.
I visited the Picasso museum in Barcelona last summer, and while I agree that most of his stuff was ideologically-driven manufactured crap, he had genuine talent that resulted in some very interesting things. My impression is that some of his early stuff - I mean when he was in his early 20's and studying art - were very, very good. I think that he then ruined himself by buying into a lot of shite about what art is supposed to be.
Mrs. Yannis forced me to drive her from Barcelona north damned near to the French border to the Dali museum. Now there was a guy who was 90% promotion. Also, I must admit, a very talented man, but a lot of his stuff was just trite nonsense. The ceterpiece of his museum is a statue of an enormous naked woman holding somehow the reigns to a Studebaker (I think it was a Studebaker) with a middleclass family inside. I mean, who could possibly give a rat's ass about that?
A week later we were standing agape before the greatest paintings in the world housed in the Prado museum in Madrid. This is ASTONISHING, and something every European must see if at all possible. Our race produced towering geniuses - so why waste your time with trite circus barkers like Dali?
Answer: my wife loves it!
What can I do? If the chick had good taste she wouldn't have married me!!!
Walter
2004-02-06 14:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]I totally agree that Clapton is one of the most (if not THE most) overrated guitarist. I've gotta disagree with you about David Gilmour, though. I do like his music, but I don't think his playing is anything special. I've never heard him play anything that I couldn't figure out pretty easily. I don't have all of Pink Floyd's albums, though, so maybe I've missed his best work.
Other guitarists that I think are very overrated include Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Joe Perry, Kirk Hammet (damned sell-out), and quite a few others. It's also worth mentioning that 99% of guitarists who play for any "alternative" band really don't know anything other than a few simple chords and how to bleach their hair.
For the most underrated guitarist, my vote goes to Andy LaRocque of King Diamond. That guy is !!PHENOMENAL!! His speed, articulation, and feeling are just stunning.[/QUOTE]
Another miserably UNDERRATED guitarist is Johnny Marr from The Smiths. Shameful. He was so amazing. Another one is Warren Haynes-Gov't Mule/Allman Bros.
I do agree with you, Angler, on the miserably OVERRATED guitarists you mention, especially Joe Perry. I saw Aerosmith back in the late '80's and he was terrible and couldn't put a phrase together to save his life. Another honorable mention for OVERRATED guitarists: Richie Blackmore. What was all the fuss about him? Yngwie Malmsteen blew him outta the water any day. La Rocque, from Mercyful Fate/King Diamond was amazing, I agree. Also the lead guitarist in the band Accept was woefully underrated.
2004-02-06 18:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Another honorable mention for OVERRATED guitarists: Richie Blackmore. What was all the fuss about him? Yngwie Malmsteen blew him outta the water any day.[/QUOTE]
Heresy!
Oh,well, everybody's got their own overrateds, I suppose. But as far as I'm concerned, Malmsteen is an unimaginative super-speed-merchant who plays with zero feel, and couldn't write a song at gunpoint. I was one of his earliest fans, going back to Alcatrazz & Steeler, but the man never developed in [I]any [/I] worthwhile direction: it's all lightning-scales and arpeggio sweeps, housed in hack metal-cliches of the worst order. His entire career could be dubbed THE SOLO REMAINS THE SAME, and he only 'blows away' Blackmore if speed, and not taste, is the quality being measured.
2004-02-07 02:55 | User Profile
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[IMG]http://www.thememoryhole.org/crime/unabomber.jpg[/IMG]
"Mayhap my services could be utilized here...?"
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2004-02-07 05:57 | User Profile
Blackmore is a very musical player; Rainbow was one of the best hard rock bands of all time, bar none.
Oh - and Blackmore once said that Yngwie was the greatest of all rock guitarists. Malmsteen's only real problem is that he just doesn't know when to stop playing: I have his Live in Brazil video, and although I never fail to be dazzled by his obviously vast knowledge and incredible dexterity, there are times when I roll my eyes and think "Yeah, yeah - we GET it, for God's sake! Move on to the next tune!" Plus, I don't care for a lot of his canned "Why yes - I AM a Viking guitar god!" stage moves. He must spin the Strat over his shoulder at least a dozen times in the tape. Cheesy as fondue.
As I've said before, if you want the perfect combination of mindblowing ability and tasteful musicality in one player, Eric Johnson is The Man.
On Jimmy Page: he's not a good technician by any means (his live playing is sloppy as hell), but he's the Master of the Hook, the greatest hard rock songwriter of them all - and the coolest rock star ever to strap on an double-neck SG.
On Joe Perry: I used to like him when I was a kid in the 70s, but now I know what a mediocrity he is. Aerosmith really sucks the Big One now; their godawful sappy ballads may make tasteless wimmin swoon, but they make me retch. Should've been put out to pasture in '79.
Walter: I know very little about the Bluesbreakers.
2004-02-07 18:21 | User Profile
The last Malmsteen cd I bought...after a long layoff during which I'm positive I didn't miss anything I hadn't heard from him already - was INSPIRATION, his late-90's 'covers album' paying tribute to his influences. Nine tracks, and FOUR of them are Blackmore covers, which ought to tell you something. And nearly every track is marred if not ruined by his million-notes-per-minute soloing. You should hear what he does to poor Allan Holdsworth - and that's by far the best cover [I]on[/I] here! Yngwie is to guitar what Patti Labelle is to singing - for the love of God, Montresor, gimme a hand and help me wall them [I]both [/I] up in the wine cellar so we can get some blessed peace & quiet!
But agree with the General on Page & Johnson [AH VIA MUSICOM is better than Malmsteen's entire back-catalog...let's face it!], and XMH on Warren Haynes. Speaking of Eric, NB, he sat out the latest G3 tour with Vai & Satriani, 'replaced' for the duration by ol' Yngwie hisself. Even [B]I'm [/B] curious about how that turned out.
And if we're starting a folder for Underrated Players, you can tab Martin Barre, Steve Hackett and Ed Wynne (of the Ozric Tentacles) for my contributions. In the pure-metal category, I always thought the late Chris Oliva of Savatage was consistently superb and consistently overlooked.
2004-02-07 20:38 | User Profile
"Aerosmith really sucks the Big One now; their godawful sappy ballads may make tasteless wimmin swoon, but they make me retch. Should've been put out to pasture in '79."
Bravo! Their old stuff still has charm, when taken in moderation, but all (and I mean ALL) of their stuff since they re-united back in 1985 (they've been re-united for about twice as long as they were ever originally united) sucks. Miserably. "Dude Looks Like a Lady?" "Jamie's Got a Gun?" I'd rather put my eardrums out with an icepick that listen to that stupid noise.
2004-02-08 07:45 | User Profile
Harriet Tubman W.E.B. DuBois George Washington Carver Alice Walker Toni Morrison Maya Angelou James Baldwin Sidney Poitier Morgan Freeman Spook ... oops, I mean ... Spike Lee Louis Armstrong (I remember Life magazine naming him #69 on their "100 People Who Made the Millenium" list -- above Faraday and Lavoisier. He played a frickin' trumpet, for crying out loud [note to all jazz fags: I think jazz sucks, so please don't waste any bandwidth trying to convince me otherwise. ok?]) Jimi Hendrix Arthur Ashe Elvis Presley (Ain't nothin' but a hound dog? More like, ain't nothing but an obese, philo-semitic, negrophiliac, drug-taking slob). Walter Williams/Thomas Sowell (both are basically the same, as they both exist solely to prove conservatives aren't racist. If they were White, you never would've heard of them.) Pablo Picasso Albert Einstein Leornard Bernstein Barbra Streisand
2004-02-08 10:58 | User Profile
Speaking of Eric, NB, he sat out the latest G3 tour with Vai & Satriani, 'replaced' for the duration by ol' Yngwie hisself. Even I'm curious about how that turned out.
Read all bout it here. Scroll down:
[url]http://www.yngwie.org/news/index.html[/url]
Hey, IR: Did you see E.J.'s bombshell first appearance on Austin City Limits in '85? Simply incredible. Even panty-wearin' "Prince" was blown away - he had his record company sign him up. Johnson has appeared on the show several times since and he's always tremendous, but the first was the best.
More musical nobodies and some historical figures I loathe:
Joe Cocker: Ya know - I think this spastic buffoon actually believes he can sing!
Dave Matthews: This smart-aleck punk's whiny "voice" goes through my head like a nail.
Jimmie Vaughn: His "minimalist" approach to the guitar was always supposed to make him a "discriminating fan's" favorite, but it leaves me cold. I preferred his more ferocious coon-worshipping brother.
Thaddeus Stevens: Full tank of gas? Check. Map with graveyard circled? Check. Bowels charged full to bursting with Virginia ham 'n' grits? Double check.
Charles Sumner: Good Ol' Preston is caning his pus-filled noggin in the Ether as I write this.
William Lloyd Garrison: One quick glance at a photo of this self-righteous piece of Yankee Abolitionist filth speaks volumes.
Lyndon Baines Johnson: If this ugly-ass race traitor scumbag supreme wasn't a crypto-Marrano, he damn sure ought to have been.
2004-02-08 14:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]And if we're starting a folder for Underrated Players, you can tab Martin Barre, Steve Hackett and Ed Wynne (of the Ozric Tentacles) for my contributions. In the pure-metal category, I always thought the late Chris Oliva of Savatage was consistently superb and consistently overlooked.[/QUOTE]
Yes! Ed Wynne's work on Ozric Tentacles' [I]Arboresence[/I] plain blew my mind when I first heard it 10 years ago. Since then though, I don't think he's equalled it.
Hackett is underrated because of his relatively low profile... he always seemed to play second fiddle in Genesis, and apart from brief chart success with GTR, his other (solo) material has been largely esoteric.
2004-02-08 20:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Ed Wynne's work on Ozric Tentacles' Arboresence plain blew my mind when I first heard it 10 years ago. Since then though, I don't think he's equalled it. [/QUOTE]
Probably not; I also think ARBORESCENCE was their last great cd. But you never know with the Ozrics - they refuse either to change [I]or [/I] to go away and may well have another peak or two left in them.
[QUOTE]....apart from brief chart success with GTR, (Hackett's) other solo material has been largely esoteric.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, but the whole span of work from FOXTROT to PLEASE DON'T TOUCH is pretty prime. Hey, if [I]Johnny Marr [/I] can be a guitar hero, why can't Hackett?
2004-02-09 01:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Marlowe]My nominee: [COLOR=Red][B]Cassius Clay, a.k.a. Muhammad Ali[/B][/COLOR]
Liston took a dive, as anyone who sees the film footage can plainly see.
Ali was an obnoxious loud-mouthed bully, which is to say, a typical Nigger athlete. He had good fighting, no, BOXING skills, but to see his character on full display I recommend the documentary (I saw it on HBO, I think) about the first Ali / Frazier fight in NYC. He tops my list; even other celebs fawn over this guy.
Anyway, boxing puts white fighters at a disadvantage; less reach, slower reaction time, glass jaw...and RULES. Whites dominate the various no-holds-barred tournaments. Ohh...to see Ali strut and bark in the ring with the likes of Frank Shamrock or Bas Rutten. It'd be short but sweeeet!
My other nominee: [B][COLOR=Red]Bill Buckley[/COLOR][/B]
Ugh...when I think of how I once admired this fraud, coward, and traitor!
To XMetalHead: I'm with you on Clapton. I saw him during the "from the cradle" tour. He had a talented band, but the egomaniac took EVERY solo. I kid you not...EVERY LAST ONE...and they were all four or five choruses! He lacks the vocabulary to be interesting for even two choruses.
David Gilmour is truly a great guitarist. Other underrateds: Lindsey Buckingham (the MOST underrated, in my view), and Joe Walsh. Beautiful tone and phrasing, always playing in the service of the song. Mature musicianship. You should listen to Robben Ford, too.[/QUOTE]
How did I miss this thread? I'll have to come back tomorrow when I have some time - have to run in a minute - it's dinner time! BUT - I will comment on Ali/Clay. Fraud. Liston was ordered to take a dive in order to put Clay at the top. Why? Boxing was dying. Attendance was down. Clay's clowning brought in the crowds. The day Liston was to have a meeting with an SI writer, and come clean on a lot of the stories - he was found dead at home. Gee, what a coincidence. Whites are at a disadvantage in boxing due to not having skulls that are over an inch thick like those of mestizos and blacks. (Read about the exams given to Duran and Hagler before their fight - their skulls were found to be over an inch thick - which the doctors probably acted surprised about - and the muscle over Hagler's temples was found to be over an inch thick, average for a black - it's about a 1/4 inch thick on the average white) Whites actually have faster reactions than blacks, but slower reflexes, generally. Whites dominate NHB fighting because it depends more on strength and endurance than skull thickness. How many times have you seen white fighters winning a boxing match, but finally losing after taking too many shots to the noggin? On the other hand, various groups have been trying to get some of the rules changed in NHB contests to help the non-whites. It's helped them a bit, but for the most part, bet on the white guy in an NHB fight. Most of the Brazilians who do well are usually of Portuguese extraction like the Gracies, etc., although the Brazilians aren't doing all that well now that so many wrestler/strikers have jumped into the sport.
That's enough for now. I can't resist coming back later to throw in my two cents on this, even if it bores the Hell out of everyone.
2004-02-09 10:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Lyndon Baines Johnson: If this ugly-ass race traitor scumbag supreme wasn't a crypto-Marrano, he damn sure ought to have been.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree with you more on LBJ. The man was evil.
But he was nevertheless a man, and he had the good sense of dying at a reasonable age.
The one I really DESPISE is his butt boy Robert McNamara. What a self-righteous know-it-all weasel who is still, unfortunuately stinking up the place with his living presence.
As luck would have it, I cut & paste below an article appearing 07 February 2004 in Counterpunch. [url]http://www.counterpunch.com/[/url]
Walter
McNamara: the Sequel By ALEXANDER COCKBURN
Apparently to McNamara's mortification, Errol Morris, whose film The Fog of War I recently discussed here, passes over his subject's thirteen-year stint running the World Bank, whither he was dispatched by LBJ, Medal of Freedom in hand.
McNamara brandishes his bank years as his moral redemption, and all too often his claim is accepted by those who have no knowledge of the actual, ghastly record. No worthwhile portrayal of McNamara could possibly avoid his performance at the World Bank, because there, within the overall constraints of the capitalist system he served, he was his own man. There was no LeMay, no LBJ issuing orders.
And as his own man, McNamara amplified the blunders, corruptions and lethal cruelties of American power as inflicted upon Vietnam to a planetary scale. The best terse account of the McNamara years is in Bruce Rich's excellent history of the bank, Mortgaging the Earth, published in 1994.
When McNamara took over the bank, "development" loans (which were already outstripped by repayments) stood at $953 million and when he left, at $12.4 billion, which, discounting inflation, amounted to slightly more than a sixfold increase. Just as he multiplied the troops in Vietnam, he ballooned the bank's staff from 1,574 to 5,201. The institution's shadow lengthened steadily over the Third World.
From Vietnam to the planet: the language of American idealism was just the same. McNamara blared his mission of high purpose in 1973 in Nairobi, initiating the World Bank's crusade on poverty. "The rich and the powerful have a moral obligation to assist the poor and the weak." The result was disaster, draped, as in Vietnam, with obsessive secrecy, empty claims of success and mostly successful efforts to extinguish internal dissent.
At McNamara's direction the bank would prepare five-year "master country lending plans", set forth in "country programming papers". In some cases, Rich writes, "even ministers of a nation's cabinet could not obtain access to these documents, which in smaller, poorer countries were viewed as international decrees on their economic fate".
Corruption seethed. Most aid vanished into the hands of local elites, who very often used the money to steal the resources-pasture, forest, water-of the very poor whom the bank was professedly seeking to help.
In Vietnam, Agent Orange and napalm. Across the Third World, the bank underwrote "Green Revolution" technologies that the poorest peasants couldn't afford and that drenched land in pesticides and fertilizer. Vast infrastructural projects such as dams and kindred irrigation projects drove the poor from their lands, from Brazil to India. It was the malign parable of "modernization" written across the face of the Third World, with one catastrophe after another prompted by the destruction of traditional rural subsistence economies.
The "appropriation of smaller farms and common areas," Rich aptly comments, "resembled in some respects the enclosure of open lands in Britain prior to the Industrial Revolution-only this time on a global scale, intensified by "Green Revolution agricultural technology." As an agent of methodical destruction, McNamara should be ranked among the top tier earth-wreckers of all time.
Back in 1994 (you can find the remarks on page 409 of my The Golden Age Is in Us) I had a conversation with Noam Chomsky, in which McNamara's name cropped up. "If you look at the modern intelligentsia over the past century or so," Chomsky said, "they're pretty much a managerial class, a secular priesthood. They've gone in basically two directions. One is essentially Leninist. Leninism is the ideology of a radical intelligentsia that says, we have the right to rule. Alternatively, they have joined the decision-making sector of state capitalist society, as managers in the political, economic and ideological institutions. The ideologies are very similar. I've sometimes compared Robert McNamara to Lenin, and you only have to change a few words for them to say virtually the same thing."
True enough.
"Management," McNamara declared in 1967, "is the gate through which social and economic and political change, indeed change in every direction, is diffused throughout society." Substitute "party organization" for "management" and you have Lenin. From "democratic centralism" to bureaucratic centralism.
The managerial ideal for McNamara was military dictatorship. McNamara threw money at Pinochet's Chile after Allende's overthrow and at the military dictators of Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, the Philippines and Indonesia. The darker the dictatorship, the more lavishly McNamara rewarded it.
He showered money on Romania's Ceausescu-$2.36 billion between 1974 and 1982. As McNamara crowed delightedly about his "faith in the financial morality of socialist countries", Ceausescu razed whole villages, turned hundreds of square miles of prime farmland into open-pit mines, polluted the air with lignite coal , and turned Romania into one vast prison, applauded by the bank in a 1979 economic study as being a fine advertisement for the "Importance of Centralized Economic Control".
This same report hailed as "an essential feature of the overall manpower policy" Ceausescu's stimulus of "an increase in birth rates". The reality? Ceausescu forbade abortions and cut off distribution of contraceptives. Result: tens of thousands of abandoned children dumped in orphanages.
In the weeks after Errol Morris's film was launched, McNamara scurried to Washington to participate in forums on the menace of nuclear destruction with the same self-assurance with which he'd gone to Vietnam and Cuba to review the record.
He and Morris turned out for a dog-and-pony show at the Zellerbach auditorium at the University of California, Berkeley. "Condemned out of his own mouth" indeed! If Morris had done a decent job, McNamara would not dare to appear in any public place. It's as though Eichmann had launched a series of lecture-circuit pillow fights with a complaisant biographer.
2004-02-12 12:48 | User Profile
Ragman:
I should mention that this is the coolest idea for a thread I've seen in years.
Yahoo! just posted an article on Joyce. It seems that there's a reaction against Ulysses from some serious contemporary Irish writers.
[URL=http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040211/people_nm/ireland_ulysses_dc_2]Joyce[/URL]
I think that A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is a great, great novel. Dubliners is a monumental anthology, and contains some of the greatest short stories ever written in English. I also like some of Joyce's poetry, but I know that reasonable minds differ as to how great it is.
But Ulysses and Finneagan's Wake leave me cold. In fact, they pi$$ me off. They're written so impossibly densely that they clearly weren't meant to be read. At least, not by anybody who wasn't a genius philologist, as was Joyce. I also don't need a novel without a plot, and a lot of dense prose.
As luck would have it I was talking to a German colleague about Joyce - seems he's a Joyce fanatic. He was aghast that I didn't like Ulysses and looked at me like I'd just told the Pope I didn't like the Pieta. Also, I had a good acquaintance back in college who was a total Joyce crazy man, and I really respect his literary opinions, and so maybe I'm just missing something.
I therefore nominate James Joyce in the writer's category for the Ragman Razzy in Writing for the discussion of the panelists.
Full disclosure: I got about half way through Ulysses and gave it up. I read a couple of pages of Finneagan's Wake and didn't even bother.
Give me the Russians anyday. Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy. Get the text out of the way so that your imagination can groove on the scenes painted.
Anyway, here's the article.
Walter
Joyce's 'Ulysses' Under Fire in Centenary Year
Wed Feb 11, 9:37 AM ET
By Gideon Long
DUBLIN (Reuters) - James Joyce's "Ulysses," regarded by many as the greatest novel of the 20th century and by some as the finest work ever written in English, is under attack.
AP Photo As Ireland gears up to celebrate the centenary of Bloomsday -- the day in June 1904 on which the novel is set -- some disgruntled writers and columnists say they are sick to death of the impenetrable book and its cult following.
By elevating him to the status of literary God, Joyce's fans are doing other Irish writers a disservice and creating a "Joyce industry" which has more to do with tourism and money-making than literature, they say.
Roddy Doyle, author of comic best-seller "Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha" and the screenplay for the hit film "The Commitments," opened the literary Pandora's Box last week with a scathing attack on Ulysses and its devoted followers.
"Ulysses could have done with a good editor," Doyle told a literary gathering in New York. "People are always putting Ulysses in the top 10 books ever written, but I doubt that any of those people were really moved by it."
Continuing his attack in an Irish newspaper interview at the weekend, Doyle said Joyce's legacy cast a long and pernicious shadow over Irish literary life.
"If you're a writer in Dublin and you write a snatch of dialogue, everyone thinks you lifted it from Joyce," he said. "It's as if you're encroaching on his area...it gets on my nerves."
Doyle's comments struck a chord with populists.
Writing in the Irish Times Wednesday, columnist Kevin Myers described Ulysses as "one of the most unproductive cul-de-sacs in literary history."
"It is about 400,000 words long, which is probably about 250,000 words too many," he complained.
A NOVEL WITHOUT A PLOT?
Journalist Sean Moncrieff, writing in the Irish Examiner, said Ulysses would never see the light of day if written now.
"What happens in Ulysses?" he asked.
"Well, not much. Bloom has breakfast. Goes to a funeral. Wanders around Dublin a bit. Stephen Dedalus does the same. Gets pissed (drunk) and makes a fool of himself. They both go home."
"Send that plot outline to any modern publisher and see how far you get."
But Joyce's fans hit back.
"It's unfair to say that no one is moved by Ulysses," said Helen Monaghan, director of the James Joyce Center, a museum in Dublin dedicated to the writer and his works. "Many people enjoy Joyce's work and are moved by it."
"Our aim has always been to create an awareness and understanding of Joyce's work," she told Reuters, saying everyone, not just intellectuals, could find pleasure in Joyce's daunting prose.
Ulysses is widely regarded as one of the most inaccessible works in English literature.
Stuffed full of meandering, unpunctuated sentences, classical references, snatches of song and even the occasional diagram, it tells the story of advertising salesman Leopold Bloom's wander around Dublin on June 16, 1904.
Toward the end of the book, Bloom meets Stephen Dedalus, an aspiring young writer modeled partly on Joyce himself.
The novel's plot is minimal and the beauty of the book, for its fans, lies in Joyce's ostentatious use of language.
Thousands of people flock to Dublin on June 16 each year to retrace Bloom's footsteps, and this year the celebrations will be bigger than ever.
Some 10,000 people are expected to savor a Bloomsday breakfast on Dublin's O'Connell Street and there will be dozens of readings, Joyce-inspired art exhibitions and other Ulysses-related events in the city over the coming months.
2004-02-13 04:01 | User Profile
N.B.F.: Jimmie Vaughn: His "minimalist" approach to the guitar was always supposed to make him a "discriminating fan's" favorite, but it leaves me cold. I preferred his more ferocious coon-worshipping brother.
We (Neo and I) consider his coon-worshipping younger brother to be the guitar god of the world! (But Jimmie leaves me cold, too -- there's just no "there" there!
(hiyah Nat. Bed.!) Avalanche
2004-02-14 04:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Avalanche] We (Neo and I) consider his coon-worshipping younger brother to be the guitar god of the world! (But Jimmie leaves me cold, too -- there's just no "there" there!
(hiyah Nat. Bed.!) Avalanche[/QUOTE]
Hi, sweetie. Once again, you and that lucky hubby of yours have displayed the good sense & taste we've all come to expect: SRV really meant every note; his Texas Flood debut floored me when I heard it, and I generally prefer more complex "progressive" guitar music to the blues.
As for Jimmie, I'll paraphrase Richard Harris on Michael Caine: "A master of inconsequence masquerading as a profound musician".
Hey - I love Michael Caine! Quiet, Richard!
2004-02-14 07:36 | User Profile
Stevie Ray always struck me as the second coming of Johnny Winter in his '69-'74 prime. (Don't get me wrong, that's a [I]good [/I] thing!) Must be that whole Texas gestalt. I was amazed that he lived as long as he did, since he was apparently in the habit of dumping sizable amounts of cocaine into a water glass full of Chivas or Jack, stirring it up, and knocking back what [I]had [/I] to be an Esophagal Death Cocktail. Even if he went the route of finding Jesus and/or Betty Ford, there are certain kinds of damage you don't recover from - like cocaine recrystallizing in the lining of your stomach, nightly. (Nightly! I'm sure I'd die if I tried that even [I]once[/I].)
Insofar as white blues artists go - particularly if feel and soulfulness are priorities - my favorite is still the English combo Free, though they'd definitely fall into the minimalist camp....but in their case, "minimalist" signifies simplicity, economy, and a kind of pastoral calm. Though they were trying to ape apes, so to speak, what ended up on the half-inch tape was the definitive white blues sound. And there has never been a more effortless virtuoso at taking a simple, even dopey lyric, and making it either moan and cry or strut like a king rooster, than Paul Rodgers. Man, if you couldn't coax the bra and panties off her with a Free record spinning on the turntable, they may as well have been [I]welded [/I] onto her. (If either you or the lady is past 40, however, go directly to a Delbert McClinton cd and repeat the process.)
2004-02-14 09:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Avalanche]We (Neo and I) consider his coon-worshipping younger brother to be the guitar god of the world! (But Jimmie leaves me cold, too -- there's just no "there" there![/QUOTE]
Assuming this is a reference to Vaughan, Stevie Ray, then yes, he's clearly the best guitair player of the last 20 years or so.
2004-02-24 21:24 | User Profile
I'm glad the Tiger Woods worship has subsided in recent years. Talk about overpraised. And man, Billy Crystal [I]just ain't funny[/I].
2004-02-25 03:29 | User Profile
Billy Crystal belongs at the top of the list. He has a big bag of nothing.
2004-02-25 11:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mwdallas]Billy Crystal belongs at the top of the list. He has a big bag of nothing.[/QUOTE]
He did a pretty fair immitation of Fernando Lamas.
2004-02-25 13:05 | User Profile
Paul Rodgers is the greatest rock singer in the world, period. He sings like a man, by God. The only other singer who gives me the same sort of thrill whenever I hear him is the late, great Roy Orbison. It's a totally different style, but when when I hear him hit the high notes of Crying with that otherworldly near-castrato voice of his, it has the blissful effect of a shot of aural heroin.
My favorite "rock" singer-songwriter is Van Morrison - a sublime genius.
2004-02-25 13:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE]My favorite "rock" singer-songwriter is Van Morrison - a sublime genius.[/QUOTE]
Ditto, and a prolific one at that.
The album he did with the Chieftains "Irish Heartbeat" is still my favorite.
Walter
2004-02-25 13:15 | User Profile
The consistent excellence of his work is nothing short of awe-inspiring.
2004-02-28 04:07 | User Profile
Yes, N. B., I agree.
But ditto Bon Scott, Don Henley/Glen Frey, and some others...
2004-03-02 00:18 | User Profile
Some of these have already been justly condemned, but I'll offer my observations anyway:
Cher: Can't act, can't sing, can't direct. Not very pretty. Owes her post-Sonny success entirely to feminist PR that paints her as a "strong womyn."
Jane Fonda: Stunningly beautiful since she was twelve; did a great job of acting (largely by playing herself) in one otherwise mediocre film ([I]Klute[/I]). Other than that, her only achievement has been to be a neurotic, loudmouthed far-leftist, for which Hollywood and the entire governmedia establishment will eternally adore her.
[This one is [I]really[/I] gonna piss folks off] Elvis Presley: Couldnââ¬â¢t sing, couldnââ¬â¢t act, was instrumental in acclimatizing Americans to the crudest negroid music that began with rockââ¬â¢nââ¬â¢roll and continued on into ââ¬Åhip-hop,ââ¬Â screwed every woman he could get his hands on, took drugs, drank heavily, wallowed in a hedonistic lifestyle. And yet is adored by legions of conservative Christians (including many White nationalists) to this day.
Jack Kerouac: Wrote one great book ââ¬â [I]On The Road[/I] ââ¬â that brilliantly tells what it was like to be a proto-hippie in late-forties postwar America. Every word he wrote after that was childish, boozy, self-indulgent crap. Drunkard, occasional homosexual, unable to hold either a job or a stable relationship with a woman, chronic mamaââ¬â¢s boy. Darling of leftist/queer/hebraic social historians and literary critics for the past fifty years.
Jack Kennedy: If he hadnââ¬â¢t been assassinated, would he even be remembered today?
Jackson Pollock: Drink six cans of paint; vomit on a canvas. Youââ¬â¢re jewish, so itââ¬â¢s ââ¬Åart.ââ¬Â
Walter Cronkite: Pompous leftist and NWO globalist who somehow managed to get himself accepted as a father figure by two generations of Americans.
My God, how can I ever find time to list them all?
2004-03-23 10:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Eric Clapton gets my award for the most overrated guitarist who ever lived. This guy is good, but damn, he's hossan'd as the second coming of the great guitar god-in-the-sky. He, himself, grovels before the shrine of "O-great-black-man, you taught me everything and there'd be no rock and roll without your Holy guidance"....give me a f'king break. He plays a few notes in a pentatonic scale, couple of bends and a little vibrato and the sheep all fall down on their knees. I don't get it, I really don't. After his days with Cream, he's done nothing that impressive to deserve god-like status. There's hundreds of guitarists who blow him away.
On the opposite scale, I'd say David Gilmour of Pink Floyd is the most [B]underrated[/B], least praised of guitarists, who blow away Clapton.[/QUOTE]
Clapton made "racist" and "anti-immigrant" comments back in the 70's.
2004-04-17 14:32 | User Profile
Excellent thread idea. Here are some off the top of my head:[u]
Abraham Lincoln[/u] -- opportunistic, amoral, power-grabbing sonfabitch who is always referred to as if he is a bonafide saint. "Father Abraham"? Give me a break.
[u] The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Junior[/u] -- do I really need to explain this one?
[u] Ronald Reagan[/u] -- not bad, as far a modern presidents go, but he does not deserver the near-deification that many people lavish upon him. He wasn't even that conservative; he just wasn't terribly leftist.
[u] Jazz[/u] -- I like some of it, but many people act as if it is the end-all, be-all of music, and that if you don't hang on every awkwardly improvised note, then you must be a musical philistine. Like I said, some of it is okay, but I'll take something with a melody, thank you.
[u] All Professional Athletes[/u] -- these guys get payed obscene amounts of money to play games. Do we really need to act like they are heroes, as well?
[u] All Actors[/u] -- these folks get payed obscene amounts of money to make believe. Do we really need to act like they are heroes, as well?
[u] New York City[/u] -- yes, I've been there. Yes, it does have fine restaurants and theatres. Yes, it still sucks.
[u] Hannukkah, Kwanza, and All Other Holidays That Compete With Christmas[/u] -- these were all either minor or non-existent holidays that are now ceaselessly promoted in order to undermine Christmas. Happy Holidays? No, thanks, I'll stick with Merry Christmas.
[u] Rush Limbaugh[/u] -- complete and utter buffoon. He is not a conservative at all, but merely a Republican Party shill, who has no principles he wouldn't sell out for political expediency.
[u] Neil Boortz [/u]-- see Limbaugh, Rush.
[u]California[/u] -- whenever I meet someone from CA, all they can do is go on and on about how "cool" CA is, and how they do it "this way" in CA, etc. etc. Attention! California is being overrun by Mexicans, it has an actor for a governor, and it was never that cool anyway. You were just mistaking libertinism for coolness. So get over it already!
I guess that's enough for now. Maybe we should have a thread for underrated things next time.
2004-04-17 18:02 | User Profile
Overrated:
Tiger Woods Kurt Cobain John Lennon* The Beatles The (Right) Rev. Dr. (Almighty) Martin (Michael) Luther King, Jr. Oprah Winfrey Nelson Mandela Rosie O'Donnell Divas (read: any female who is put on imaginary pedestals by those too ignorant to see reality for what it is) Any hip-hop artist of your choice Rudy Giuliani
*-The Beatles should go down as the most overrated music group in history, but John Lennon post-1968 is a separate entity in itself, reaching its zenith with his murder in 1980.
2004-04-17 18:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill] [u]California[/u] -- whenever I meet someone from CA, all they can do is go on and on about how "cool" CA is, and how they do it "this way" in CA, etc. etc. Attention! California is being overrun by Mexicans, it has an actor for a governor, and it was never that cool anyway. You were just mistaking libertinism for coolness. So get over it already![/QUOTE]
A quarter of a century ago, California was almost like a paradise. The nonWhites (who are now the majority - they were perhaps 20% of the population in 1980 and generally de facto segregated away from the real Californians in the sort of squalid, urban ghettoes that are their natural environment within the Western context) and the multinational corporate gangster class have utterly ruined it, of course.