← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · wild_bill
Thread ID: 11866 | Posts: 12 | Started: 2004-01-12
2004-01-12 20:53 | User Profile
[All this is going on and US Christian leaders are silent. Oh, but let the hair on a Jew get mussed and they scream. Fallwell, Robertson, and the rest couldn't care less as dozens of Christian churches are desecrated/destroyed and tens of thousands of Christians terrorized. And what about our supposed Christian president? Nothing from him either. In fact its the US-supported NATO troops who stand by and allow it to happen!]
SHOCKING: Map of Desecrated, Burned, and Destroyed Churches in Kosovo [url]http://www.kosovo.com/map3.jpg[/url]
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2004-01-12 21:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill][All this is going on and US Christian leaders are silent. Oh, but let the hair on a Jew get mussed and they scream. Fallwell, Robertson, and the rest couldn't care less as dozens of Christian churches are desecrated/destroyed and tens of thousands of Christians terrorized. And what about our supposed Christian president? Nothing from him either. In fact its the US-supported NATO troops who stand by and allow it to happen!] [/QUOTE]
Falwell or Robertson do not speak for me or thousands of other US Christians, bill. Also, as a US citizen Bush is your Christian president and your tax dollars support NATO.
Indeed, I know many US Christians who oppose our crimes in Kosovo. The true problem is that we are just not at the point yet where we are willing to dust off our squirrel guns and collectively head for D.C.
2004-01-12 23:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Falwell or Robertson do not speak for me or thousands of other US Christians, bill. Also, as a US citizen Bush is your Christian president and your tax dollars support NATO.
Indeed, I know many US Christians who oppose our crimes in Kosovo. The true problem is that we are just not at the point yet where we are willing to dust off our squirrel guns and collectively head for D.C.[/QUOTE]
I know there are individual Christians who oppose what's happening, but I have yet to hear any prominent Christian evangelical (or other) leader speak out. Yet when they think Bush is being anything but a dorrmat for Ariel Sharon, these people immediately start warning him to back off Israel. This is a great hypocrisy. They care more about the Jews than their fellow Christians!
Ok, so these are Orthodox churches, but since when are the Jews rated above another Christian of another denomination? Are these people that narrow that they would protect Jews while ignoring Orthodox Christians suffering under Muslem terrorism? Its hard to believe.
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2004-01-12 23:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill]I know there are individual Christians who oppose what's happening, but I have yet to hear any prominent Christian evangelical (or other) leader speak out. [/QUOTE]
I have yet to hear any prominent Christian orthodox leader speak out. Perhaps the problem is just that they don't get the media publicity the great defenders of Israel get?
They care more about the Jews than their fellow Christians!
In extremely rare cases like John Hagee, I'll agree with you. For the great majority of evangelicals though, push come to shove I don't think this is the case no matter how things may appear through the media looking-glass.
Ok, so these are Orthodox churches, but since when are the Jews rated above another Christian of another denomination? Are these people that narrow that they would protect Jews while ignoring Orthodox Christians suffering under Muslem terrorism? Its hard to believe.[/QUOTE]
NATO (US) bombing of Serbia was all about Clinton's political image. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that opposition was not as strident and as vocal as it should be just goes to show how D.C. power is a lot of folks true God and not Jesus Christ.
Bottom line, I dare say there is no one active on this board who was not just as outraged as you on this one, for whatever reason. Needless to say, we share the same frustration getting our message out and effecting change and justice.
2004-01-12 23:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]I have yet to hear any prominent Christian orthodox leader speak out. Perhaps the problem is just that they don't get the media publicity the great defenders of Israel get?[/QUOTE]
No doubt that is a large part of it. Can anyone even name an "Orthodox leader" that's ever seen on US tv? I can't. Plenty of Orthodox in Europe speak out, however. The Kosovo website is part of the Serbian Church's effort.
[QUOTE] In extremely rare cases like John Hagee, I'll agree with you. For the great majority of evangelicals though, push come to shove I don't think this is the case no matter how things may appear through the media looking-glass.[/QUOTE]
I'm only basing my opinion on what I've seen. The Serbian situation isn't my top concern, but I have been following it (with disgust) for at least three years. I think what bothers me also is that I have actually heard more protests about Washington's support of the KLA from right-wing Jews, many of whom are pro-Serb/anti-Muslim, than the US Christian leaders.
[QUOTE] NATO (US) bombing of Serbia was all about Clinton's political image. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that opposition was not as strident and as vocal as it should be just goes to show how D.C. power is a lot of folks true God and not Jesus Christ.
Bottom line, I dare say there is no one active on this board who was not just as outraged as you on this one, for whatever reason. Needless to say, we share the same frustration getting our message out and effecting change and justice.[/QUOTE]
My criticisms are not against anyone here, but against the hypocrisy of Bush and his Christian supporters. We know what Clinton did was despicable, but what can we expect from such an immoral degenerate? But what has the supposedly Christian Bush done? Nothing. Its not even on his radar. This is an even more obvious question given the present Muslim Jihad happening. I think if Bush were really serious about weakening Muslim terrorism and expansion, he could be doing something, even if its just applying back-channel diplomatic pressure, to help out the Serbs in their fight against the Muslims.
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2004-01-13 00:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill]But what has the supposedly Christian Bush done? Nothing. Its not even on his radar. [/QUOTE]
After soaking his brain in alcohol all those many years, I think Bush does good just to get up each morning and manage to dress himself.
2004-01-13 00:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill][All this is going on and US Christian leaders are silent. Oh, but let the hair on a Jew get mussed and they scream. Fallwell, Robertson, and the rest couldn't care less as dozens of Christian churches are desecrated/destroyed and tens of thousands of Christians terrorized. And what about our supposed Christian president? Nothing from him either. In fact its the US-supported NATO troops who stand by and allow it to happen!] [/QUOTE]
To those judeaizers and opportunists the Orthodox don't count. Truly a measure of their "Christianity".
Judeo-"Christians" = :dung::dung::dung:
2004-01-13 00:40 | User Profile
Tex,
Russian Orthodox Church has made public statements regarding Kosovo. You won't see this on televitz, other than in an "approrpiate" context and with an "appropriate" commentary.
2004-01-13 08:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Tex,
Russian Orthodox Church has made public statements regarding Kosovo. You won't see this on televitz, other than in an "approrpiate" context and with an "appropriate" commentary.[/QUOTE]
Well what makes you or wild bill think it is any different for evangelical protestants?
With one minute of googling I found two Decision Today updates on Serbian Orthodox church bombings on Billy Graham's web site:
[url=http://www.billygraham.org/mediaPlayer/default.asp?clipid=12554]Recent Attacks in Kosovo[/url] > Regional correspondent Stefan Bos reports that in the month of November there were two major bombings of Serb Orthodox churches in Kosovo. There have also been reports of attacks against Serb Christians as NATO-led peacekeepers withdrew from several checkpoints around religious sites. The Orthodox leadership believes these attacks are a part of an ethnic Albanian-led "campaign." The United Nations Secretary General, Kofi Annan, has urged the Muslim Albanians to respect their neighbors. Building a tolerant society might be difficult, but there is still hope for reconciliation.
[url=http://www.billygraham.org/mediaPlayer/default.asp?clipid=12557]Decision Today 12/11/2002[/url]> Recent attacks in Kosovo bring unrest to the Christians there
So here we have on the web site of Rev. Billy Graham, probably the closest thing to an American national protestant evangelical religious leader/figurehead, not only reporting on recent tragedies in Kosovo, but also clearly referring to the Serbian Orthodox there as Christians.
Doesn't quite jibe with the picture you and wild bill try to paint of evangelicals, does it?
2004-01-13 14:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Well what makes you or wild bill think it is any different for evangelical protestants?
With one minute of googling I found two Decision Today updates on Serbian Orthodox church bombings on Billy Graham's web site: [/QUOTE]
This is a matter-of-fact news report. The tone certainly isn't one of rallying to the defense of fellow Christians. And notice the scare quotes they put around the word "campaign", as if the Kosovo Christians are imagining something that doesn't exist or making more of it than it really is.
I'm looking for a statement of condemnation by any protestant against the Muslims for their terrorism and the US government for its support of the program of ethnic and religious cleansing happening in Kosovo. I have never heard anything like that.
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2004-01-13 16:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill]I'm looking for a statement of condemnation by any protestant against the Muslims for their terrorism and the US government for its support of the program of ethnic and religious cleansing happening in Kosovo. I have never heard anything like that.[/QUOTE]
Billy Graham himself could call you on the telephone and I still don't think that would cause you to rethink the matter, wild bill. I'm done on this one.
2004-01-13 17:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Billy Graham himself could call you on the telephone and I still don't think that would cause you to rethink the matter, wild bill. I'm done on this one.[/QUOTE]
No, you're wrong on that. A condemnation from Graham or any evangelical leader would be welcome. Nonetheless, in case you have forgotten, my interest in this particular issue is not only the disinterest of Protestants, in particular evangelicals, in the desecration and murder Christians and churches in Kosovo, but in the hypocrisy of that in juxtaposition with their obsessive concern with the Jews and Israel. I say that knowing that the Jewish obsession is found mainly among dispensationalists and not shared by many Protestants.
Let me make it clear that my comments are not directed towards you or anyone on this list. I think we are more or less of the same mind on this and other related issues.
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