← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Avalanche

Men vs. Women

Thread ID: 11832 | Posts: 3 | Started: 2004-01-10

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Avalanche [OP]

2004-01-10 20:02 | User Profile

A follow-on to: How to Awaken a Woman

MadScienceType wrote: [QUOTE]Anyway, yeah, men overall are protecting women less overall and I find that very sad, but who shoved men away en masse with the old, "I am woman, hear me roar" stuff anyway? Chivalry's dying or dead, but it ain't all men's fault. I know NOW might say feminism and chivalry are not mutually exclusive, but really they're just opposite ways of telling you you're wrong!

Tell women they don't need men for anything, lest they become some kind of domesticated animal, yet when they find out rapists don't respect their newfound liberation, they run to state for protection, not men! The very same state that is "manufacturing" the very rapists they fear![/QUOTE]

Ah, but don’t you see, huge numbers of men, maybe most, DO make of their women a domesticated animal!!! The man is a slave in the work world, and the only thing below him is his woman, so he makes her his servant. Even if she is the SAME ‘slave in the work world’ (working as many hours outside the house), he (consciously or unconsciously) expects that she will fulfill all the work and duties of a house servant. (But the real “master” provides the house and financial wherewithal for the house servant to live in and work with -- what is today’s man providing to his wife? A half share in the financial responsibilities AND the job as house servant? No thanks!!)

My husband does NOT see me, or expect me to see myself, as his (or our) servant. I am his princess (to his king) -- and I am NOT responsible for any housework. NeoNioetzsche sees it as HIS responsibility to either hire it done or do it himself (and since we can’t afford a maid, that means he does it himself)! (He DOES occasionally point out that it was a real... unkindness.... for us d@mnyankees to have run off their slaves -- a southern man, he is!) Anything I do around the house is a help to him, but I am NEVER required to do it! He supports and cares for me, he provides for my safety and security, and he provides my house and home. How could I not then love him enough to feel willing and free to make dinner every night? To “pitch in” in house care and yard care and whatever else is needed to make our lives comfortable?!

(This is SUCH a difference from most men, who (may) grudgingly “help out the little woman” but often only when she INSISTS and NAGS and WHINES! But I do not EVER feel guilty for NOT doing anything -- because it’s NEVER my responsibility!)

Patricia Allen, in her book “[I]Getting to I Do[/I]...”, says that a woman should always/only give BACK, and always less than she is given by her man. This is the problem for SO many women, who mistakenly believe that if they only give ENOUGH (time, energy, caring, coddling, cooking, cleaning, listening, and supporting) to a man, he will FINALLY turn around and give back to her... but men don’t DO that! It’s not how they view the world (and women).

Think of it men, do you EVER consider whether or not you’re “giving enough” to your football buddies (time, energy, caring, supporting, or Doritos)? Do you ever concern yourself with a (male) friend feeling slighted because you haven’t seen or called him in a week? Don’t women ALWAYS consider these things with their friends? It’s DIFFERENT for men and women; not one is wrong and one is right; it’s yin and yang and you need both to make a relationship! But when women and men expect the other sex to see and do things the way THEY do, both end up feeling baffled and cheated and annoyed. (Now, mind, Pat Allen is not didactic in her ‘division of sex roles’ -- she lays out the polarized positions, and then discusses how to manage the inevitable preferences for less than 100% compliance. John Gray (“Men are From Mars....”) also says some good things, from a man’s perspective, which differs in some ways from Pat Allen.)

And so, most modern women feel horribly cheated -- because men never ‘balance’ the giving. In our parents’ time, the man was the breadwinner and he provided for the woman, but now the woman has to provide for herself, and then why should she want to give back to a man when she’s not getting from him? (And sorry guys, weekly sex is just NOT enough to balance it all!! Tee hee hee!)

Now, does this sound like it’s a raw deal for the men? They have to support the woman? They have to give more to a woman than they get back? Maybe, if you think of the interaction / relationship between a man and his woman as a “economic” one (and who led you to THAT world view?). When the man is more concerned with “fairness,” with only giving as much to his woman as he gets back, then he is acting more like an adolescent than a grown man. Pat Allen says “A boy’s rite of passage into manhood is when he stops seeing women, children, and animals as sources of personal gratification and instead sees them as recipients of his manful, loving bounty.”

Anyway, I think that the conflict between men and women, and the apparent lack of “womanly” women, is a result of women having to spend their days in the “male sphere,” of women having to provide for themselves, and then refusing (logically I think!) to become house servants for a man who is NOT providing for her well-being and happiness!

Texas Dissident, on another thread, says you need to find you a southern woman. I’m not sure there are many of them left down here either... but the graciousness and gentle caring a southern woman provides to her man is IN RETURN for his chivalrous caring and provision for her health and happiness! I had long since stopped believing there was any such kind of man left (except in romance novels) and, of course, with my jaundiced and hostile attitude toward (all) men, it was unlikely any would bother to show me different. NeoNietzsche, because he got to know about me from my website and letters without facing my (not generally conscious) hostility, was able to consider me as a person, as a woman, before he began to see if I would be ‘tameable.’

(By the way, Mad Scientist? Maybe women run to the state, because the state doesn’t expect the woman to pick up its socks and clean its house!!)

Ragnar

2004-01-10 21:03 | User Profile

MadScienceType's question again:

[QUOTE]Anyway, yeah, men overall are protecting women less overall and I find that very sad, but who shoved men away en masse with the old, "I am woman, hear me roar" stuff anyway? [/QUOTE]

I believe it was Columbia Records, about the time Warner Books and Random House were pumping out books by Gloria Stienem and Erica Jong.

Try to remember feminism was a corporate strategy before it was anything else, although the nut-heretic Henry Makow says it was also a CIA agit-prop exercise, which seems more likely with each passing day.

Not widely known (for obvious reasons, if you know who operates the "know business") is that working class women were quite hostile to feminism when it first came out. It was their college sisters who took the bait without examining it too close.

I can prove it with a close to home example. One of the top female singers in America from the early 50s on was Toledo-born Teresa Brewer. She spoke for many working class girls in the early 70s with an album entitled, "An Unliberated Woman." But who runs the record biz? Teresa's recording career sank like a stone. Her husband, jazz record producer Bob Theil, was able to get her a niche singing old swing music, but as far as the broad public was concerned she was washed up.

"Who did the shoving?" Entertainment corporations, mostly.

wild_bill

2004-01-11 01:24 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Avalanche]A follow-on to: How to Awaken a Woman

And so, most modern women feel horribly cheated -- because men never ‘balance’ the giving. In our parents’ time, the man was the breadwinner and he provided for the woman, but now the woman has to provide for herself, and then why should she want to give back to a man when she’s not getting from him? [/QUOTE]

Without Christ as the center of a marriage, the marriage degenerates into simply a way for two people to get their personal needs and desires met. And if either feels unsatisfied, that justifies a divorce!

Its no wonder the divorce rate is 50% and family life is falling apart.

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