← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Okiereddust
Thread ID: 11656 | Posts: 28 | Started: 2003-12-29
2003-12-29 22:01 | User Profile
The far right understands rural people's alienation and exploits it, transforming their bitter desperation into political action that suits the right’s own broader agenda. So what that their tangle of pseudo-legal procedures and quasi-religious doctrines is half-baked? So what that those that follow their advice end up either off the land or in jail-or dead like Art Kirk? The far right as least offers the possibility of salvation, and to the forgotten farmers and small-town residents that is sometimes enough.
Author James Coates suggests that many Americans have been “softened up” by the rhetoric of new-right leaders – especially by Fundamentalist ministers Jimmy Swaggert, Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson-and made more susceptible to the similar but far more hateful message of the far right. Jerry Falwell’s assessment that “Jews are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior” as well as the preachers words to another audience, " a few of you here today don’t like the Jew. And I know why. He can make more money accidentally than you can on purpose” are embryonic forms of the rabid anti-Semitism of the fanatic fringe.
And clearly, Pat Robertson has added weight to the Identity call for a “Christian Republic” by saying, “The minute you turn [the Constitution] into the hands of non-Christian people and atheists people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that’s what’s been happening.
But CDR’s ([url=http://www.thecdr.org/]Center for Democratic Renewal[/url])Leonard Zeskind argues that Americans don’t need a Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell to soften them up with “soft-core” anti-Semitism. “There’s already 1000 years of Christian history on that” he explains. The connection between the far right and the new right isn’t casual, rather they both arise from a preexisting and extensive body of anti-Jewish thought. As one theologian pointed out, “It is clear that anti-Jewish ideology is much more deeply rooted in Christian preaching and even in some parts of the New Testament than had once been thought.” ** from "Broken Heartland", Chapter 6, by Osha Gray Davidson
Quite obviously regarding Christianity, the left is aware of something that much of the far right is not. Maybe that's why the far right is such a failure.
Alex Linder and his VNN cohorts are, at the very least, fools.
2003-12-29 22:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Quite obviously regarding Christianity, the left is aware of something that much of the far right is not. Maybe that's why the far right is such a failure.
Alex Linder and his VNN cohorts are, at the very least, fools.[/QUOTE]
How do these go together? They don't. There is no middle groud anymore. If you are against Jews and Christian Zionists, you are on one side of the fence -- the American. If you are for jews and Christian Zionism, you are on the other side -- anti-American. Which side is Okie on? People keep posting up on this issue as if there weren't lives at stake, and lots of them.
2003-12-29 22:34 | User Profile
Well, for once Robertson was right.
But the big problem with the happy-clappy Fundamentalists isn't antiSemitism, it's the worship of the Jewish race.
But while you are right to say Christian Zionists are on one side of the fence, it is unproductive to insinuate "Jews" can be catagorized as a homogenious political force. Some of the greatist enemies of the malodorous neocons and ignorant happy-clappy Fundamentalists are Jews.
2003-12-29 22:37 | User Profile
[QUOTE=TexasAnarch]How do these go together? They don't. There is no middle groud anymore. If you are against Jews and Christian Zionists, you are on one side of the fence -- the American. If you are for jews and Christian Zionism, you are on the other side -- anti-American. Which side is Okie on? People keep posting up on this issue as if there weren't lives at stake, and lots of them.[/QUOTE]
"The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who, in a time of moral crisis, maintain their neutrality." ~ St. Thomas Aquinas
"Do not think that heresies could have arisen from a few beggarly little souls. Only great men have brought forth heresies." ~ St. Augustine
2003-12-29 23:58 | User Profile
Bwa-ha-ha-ha! [sarcasm] Ohhh, yeeeaaah, anti-Semites are just popping up everywhere due to mainstream Christianity! Yep-yep-yep. I just heard one today on the radio! [end of sarcasm].
Name just one mainstream preacher who names-the-Jew on a regular basis. JUST ONE. C'mon. Just one.
Can't? Bwa-ha-ha!
2003-12-30 00:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Name just one mainstream preacher who names-the-Jew on a regular basis. JUST ONE[/QUOTE]
Franco, name one 'mainstream' person of the white race who names the Jew on a regular basis. Just one.
Now I can think of several blacks who do or have like Sharpton and Farrakhan. According to your omnipotent, 'name the Jew' measuring stick, that must mean that blacks are superior or more advanced than whites.
How was your Kwanzaa? :afro:
2003-12-30 00:20 | User Profile
James Coates is a moron.
The "far right" in America rose decades before anyone heard of Robertson or Falwell, and had very few religious connections. In the early days there were people like Robert Bolivar DePugh (who started the Minutemen in 1965, granddaddy of all militia movements) and George Lincoln Rockwell (to put it mildly, no Christian.) Their descendents today are antigovernment activists who attend gun shows -- which is where it all started, come to think of it.
"Far right" was a Second Amendment baby.
The label "far right" was appropriated by dumb liberals in the 50s and 60s to refer to chatting clubs such as the John Birch Society and anything William F. Buckley was connected with. This is just plain mislabelling. Since leading liberals back then, as now, were often Jewish, any connection between the "far right" and Christianity was played up far bigger than it actually was. As a good example, ask anyone under 35 or so if they remember what the Christian Anti-Communist Crusade was all about.
2003-12-30 00:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Franco, name one 'mainstream' person of the white race who names the Jew on a regular basis. Just one.
Now I can think of several blacks who do or have like Sharpton and Farrakhan. According to your omnipotent, 'name the Jew' measuring stick, that must mean that blacks are superior or more advanced than whites.
How was your Kwanzaa? :afro:[/QUOTE]:lol: Is that why Franco was talking jive on one of his last posts? Like all the brutha's?
I think it was a pretty good act actually. :afro: Franco, are you sure you don't have any black blood in you? :lol:
2003-12-30 00:24 | User Profile
Tex -- hey, ya gots ta admit that my racial "measuring stick" be powerful, bro! So powerful dat peepo tremble when I wave it around on da web! Word!
Everyone gots ta have a measuring stick, bro.....if'n they didn't, how would you separate da wheat from da chaff? Ya knows? Word! You gots ta categorize da peepo! Label them peepo, so dat other peepo knows what dey be! Everyone gots ta have a label.
2003-12-30 00:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Oliver Cromwell]Well, for once Robertson was right.
But the big problem with the happy-clappy Fundamentalists isn't antiSemitism, it's the worship of the Jewish race.
But while you are right to say Christian Zionists are on one side of the fence, it is unproductive to insinuate "Jews" can be catagorized as a homogenious political force. Some of the greatist enemies of the malodorous neocons and ignorant happy-clappy Fundamentalists are Jews.[/QUOTE]Like most uninformed people on this board, you equate "Fundamentalist" and "Christian Zionist".
Most black militants are anti-semitic. By the same logic, I should be able to equate all of you to the term "black militant".
2003-12-30 11:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Oliver Cromwell]Well, for once Robertson was right.
But the big problem with the happy-clappy Fundamentalists isn't antiSemitism, it's the worship of the Jewish race.
But while you are right to say Christian Zionists are on one side of the fence, it is unproductive to insinuate "Jews" can be catagorized as a homogenious political force. Some of the greatist enemies of the malodorous neocons and ignorant happy-clappy Fundamentalists are Jews.[/QUOTE]
That's very insightful.
My understanding is that Orthodox Jews (followers of the Kabbalah) believe that Jews possess uncreated souls that are shards of light that somehow chipped off of God when the universe was created. Gentiles in contrast have created souls like animals.
Jews claim in essence to be what Christians claim for Christ - they claim to be "God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God . . ." Judeo-Christianity is an attempt to replace Christ with a worship of the Jews as a collective.
And it's working very well.
One might ask why it's working. Why do Freepers, for example, who mostly claim devotion to Christ in fact worship His enemies? The answer, I think, is that Freepers and their ilk need to feel the love of the rich and powerful. They need to feel that they're basking somehow in the light of Earthly power and glory. They know instinctively that Jews run the world, and so they do everything they can to suck up to them. And if they have to sell out the Saviour to the Sanhedrin do it, well, they won't think twice about it.
Think of that group of them marching a couple years ago through Jerusalem as Ariel Sharon shouted "you're our best friends!" Such cheap ego strokes from the man who actually runs the world is a powerful incentive for these fools.
That's made much easier of course by the media that tells them that Jews are really victims despite their vast wealth and power and Dispensationalism, which tells them falsely that their treason isn't real. But they are convicted by the plain evidence of our eyes, and their betrayal of Christ is every bit as real as if they hadn't sold him out under this hypocritical smoke screen of theology-as-image.
God help us all.
Walter
2003-12-30 16:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]
How was your Kwanzaa? :afro:[/QUOTE]
I almost spit out my coffee at this one.....that afro smiley, man alive, what a great idea!
-Jay
2003-12-30 22:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Tex -- hey, ya gots ta admit that my racial "measuring stick" be powerful, bro! So powerful dat peepo tremble when I wave it around on da web! Word![/QUOTE]
Powerful? Maybe, but what good is it if it applies to no one? What does that say about your perception of reality, Franco? Seriously.
2003-12-31 02:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Tex -- hey, ya gots ta admit that my racial "measuring stick" be powerful, bro! So powerful dat peepo tremble when I wave it around on da web! Word!
Everyone gots ta have a measuring stick, bro.....if'n they didn't, how would you separate da wheat from da chaff?[/QUOTE] Franco, are we sure wez ain't talking about some other type of stick? You may be proud of yo "racial "measuring stick", but I be sure it ain't no more than haf de size of a real bro stick, and all you'ze phony jive talkin can't change dat.
You be a white bo, bro, and like all de white bo, I be sure yoo'z can't dance, can't rap, and bo, you got to take out you'z "racial measuring stick" when yooz got some real mans wok to do.
2003-12-31 02:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Powerful? Maybe, but what good is it if it applies to no one? What does that say about your perception of reality, Franco? Seriously.[/QUOTE]
Seriously? You are talking to the people who want to take what the ADL thinks is the best source of gentile solidarity against alienism re:
There’s already 1000 years of Christian history on that(anti-semitism)” he explains. The connection between the far right and the new right isn’t casual, rather they both arise from a preexisting and extensive body of anti-Jewish thought
And basically junk it for some Hitlerite/pagan mumbo-jumbo.
Either they're incorrigable fools, or more likely, there are some serious diversionary tactics at work among VNN planted by perhaps the anti-hate action groups of the ADL. I don't know if I'd rule out Linder himself. He certainly is an ex-neocon who has amazingly deep sources of money, and so far, in spite of a large member base at VNN, has managed to do exactly nothing besides split the white movement, and enrich his own pockets.
2003-12-31 02:58 | User Profile
Okie wrote:
Either they're incorrigable fools, or more likely, there are some serious diversionary tactics at work among VNN planted by perhaps the anti-hate action groups of the ADL. I don't know if I'd rule out Linder himself. He certainly is an ex-neocon who has amazingly deep sources of money
**Attention, all moderators: the neocon movement is a Jewish RACIAL movement. Given that fact, what exactly is Okie saying about Linder? And the rest of us WNs who read VNN daily?
Come on. Gimme a break. If Okie thinks that we WNs are false flags, then I invite him to give just one example of us WNs behaving as such. Come on -- give me concrete proof of your theories about us regular WNs, Okie. Come on. You think I am not real? Is that it? Hmmmmm?
This matter is funny, in an odd way. **
2003-12-31 17:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]**Attention, all moderators: the neocon movement is a Jewish RACIAL movement. Given that fact, what exactly is Okie saying about Linder? **
Everyone knows Linder came from the neocon American Spectator magazine. Undoubtedly he is a rhetorically gifted writer. Its his judgement I question.
**And the rest of us WNs who read VNN daily?
Come on. Gimme a break. If Okie thinks that we WNs are false flags, then I invite him to give just one example of us WNs behaving as such. Come on -- give me concrete proof of your theories about us regular WNs, Okie. Come on. You think I am not real? Is that it? Hmmmmm?
This matter is funny, in an odd way. **[/QUOTE]
No, I don't have any copies of checks signed by Abe Foxman to Linder or any other VNN guys, if that's what you mean. Of course we very seldom do, whenever we're speculating about people who's bona fide loyalty have been questioned, such as the JBS, AFP(although I've read hints here), or whatever. Even Pat Buchanan has been criticized for supposedly just hoarding campaign fnance money.
VNN is not immune from criticism, just because they bluster and talk louder. If you're going to speculate, the tough talkers could just as easily be agent provocateurs as the softies could be neocon plants.
You always said the test of something was its results. Many WN's say paleo groups and personalities are, at the minimum, failures because all they ever do is talk. What then do VNN people ever do besides talk?
2003-12-31 18:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]VNN is not immune from criticism, just because they bluster and talk louder....What then do VNN people ever do besides talk?[/QUOTE]
Heretic! Blasphemy!
How dare you question His Most High Supreme Leader of the VNN People's Temple!
Drink the Kool-Aid and stop questioning, danggit!
:ohmy: :lol:
2003-12-31 21:25 | User Profile
I always get a chuckle when I see a Christian Zionist Jew-worshiper, who whinks Sharon is King of Isreal rather than Jesus, accused of being anti-Jew for letting an academic Christian point slip out, like "Jews need Jesus, too."
2004-01-01 08:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Happy Hacker]I always get a chuckle when I see a Christian Zionist Jew-worshiper, who whinks Sharon is King of Isreal rather than Jesus, accused of being anti-Jew for letting an academic Christian point slip out, like "Jews need Jesus, too."[/QUOTE] Good point, concise and well said.
2004-01-01 08:21 | User Profile
I consider Falwell and Robertson modern day Pharisees instead of actual Christians. Interesting how they perform roles that would make Apostle Paul cringe. Occasionally they say the right things as part of their cover. If accuracy means anything, the "far right" of the media is just a label to condemn political adversaries and has no base in fact or reason.
Yes, the irrational aggression of the black militant can easily be compared to those in lockstep with Falwell and Robertson followers. If you notice, both are constanly "outraged", while Christians are more often at peace, regardless of the circumstances.
2004-01-01 20:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Happy Hacker]I always get a chuckle when I see a Christian Zionist Jew-worshiper, who whinks Sharon is King of Isreal rather than Jesus, accused of being anti-Jew for letting an academic Christian point slip out, like "Jews need Jesus, too."[/QUOTE] Well its hardly an academic point, if you are a committed Christian. It's the heart of your faith.
While Falwell and Robertson, along with other reliable Christian conservative organizations like the Southern Baptist Convention, have, in comparison with the mainline Churches, until recently at least (re Falwell and Robertson) this, in the eyes of jewish groups, had always been offset by their firm insistence on the necessity of faith in Jesus for salvation. Of course this passes modern National Socialists, who are nincompoops regarding religious matters.
Like jewish groups, National Socialists seem to have both a lack of basic understanding of Christianity and a totalitarian rigidity toward it.
2004-01-01 20:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Heretic! Blasphemy!
How dare you question His Most High Supreme Leader of the VNN People's Temple!
Drink the Kool-Aid and stop questioning, danggit!
:ohmy: :lol:[/QUOTE] Seriously, as I reflect over the year upon the attitude of VNN toward Christianity, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, just from a political standpoint. Why, when recruiting new members is the key, do you start out by alienating the vast majority, especially in the USA, of your potential member base?
It might make sense or at least be understandable if you thought Christianity was no longer a big deal anyway, like for European nationalist groups operating in a very secular environment. But that's not the position VNNers take at all. The don't discount Christianity because there seems so little of it, rather they, like Franco, assert they feel it is a force of major force in numbers and respect.
If you've ever read about the actions of agent provoceteurs, one of their main objectives is simply to sow dissension, discord, and disunity, by stirring pointless internal fights, distrust, exploiting subtle existing cleavages etc. When this is not possible, they'll just try to stirring up personal antogonism, like seducing fellow members wives. Knocking other people's religion might not be quite as disruptive as provoking marital infidelity, but its close, and of course for only line groups the latter is rather difficult. That's why I wonder about the boorishness of the manners and crudeness of the attacks so often practiced by the National Socialists on religious conservatives.
Whatever Linders original religious beliefs, he certainly seems to have picked up a strong anti-Christian bias during his association with neoconservatives that has carried over to his VNN career, and which is very harmful to the cause of WN. Linder claims of course to see no such harm, but whether this is outright deception or just self-deception, in my question he is at least in this regards undoubtedly a harmful figure whose actions greatly harms the movement in the USA.
2004-01-01 20:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Heretic! Blasphemy!
How dare you question His Most High Supreme Leader of the VNN People's Temple!
Drink the Kool-Aid and stop questioning, danggit!
:ohmy: :lol:[/QUOTE] Seriously, as I reflect over the year upon the attitude of VNN toward Christianity, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, just from a political standpoint. Why, when recruiting new members is the key, do you start out by alienating the vast majority, especially in the USA, of your potential member base?
It might make sense or at least be understandable if you thought Christianity was no longer a big deal anyway, like for European nationalist groups operating in a very secular environment. But that's not the position VNNers take at all. The don't discount Christianity because there seems so little of it, rather they, like Franco, assert they feel it is a force of major force in numbers and respect.
If you've ever read about the actions of agent provoceteurs, one of their main objectives is simply to sow dissension, discord, and disunity, by stirring pointless internal fights, distrust, exploiting subtle existing cleavages etc. When this is not possible, they'll just try to stirring up personal antogonism, like seducing fellow members wives. Knocking other people's religion might not be quite as disruptive as provoking marital infidelity, but its close, and of course for only line groups the latter is rather difficult. That's why I wonder about the boorishness of the manners and crudeness of the attacks so often practiced by the National Socialists on religious conservatives.
Whatever Linders original religious beliefs, he certainly seems to have picked up a strong anti-Christian bias during his association with neoconservatives that has carried over to his VNN career, and which is very harmful to the cause of WN. Linder claims of course to see no such harm, but whether this is outright deception or just self-deception, in my question he is at least in this regards undoubtedly a harmful figure whose words and actions greatly harms the movement in the USA.
2004-01-01 21:15 | User Profile
Okie et al.
Seems Linder has published his creed vis-a-vis Christianity at VNN, I am posting it here:
[url]http://vanguardnewsnetwork.com/lettersOct-Nov03/123003letters.htm[/url]
Ed. Note: Hey, buddy. Let go - Let God. Nuf said. NOT. You're quite right. Why spend all those years in the lab working when you can reach a subjective conclusion and go spread the word about this wonderful burning in your bosom? Religion fills the bill for dumb and lazy people. It gives them pat answers to questions they are incapable of puzzling on their own. It's a way for a segment of the sharps to mulct the masses; it also provides a comfortable means for social control, which is not a thing to be scoffed at. Religion is bad and good. Some form of it is inevitable, so no point in getting too worked up about it. At best religion can provide a structure of sound morals to live by, a structure for human tomato plants to grow up around, and knock a stick in people's heads when they think too much of themselves. That's old-tyme religion. The new fangled fags-first, self-esteem uber alles, where-do-I-dump-these-Somalis? religion isn't religion at all, but a poisonous politics that must be destroyed. Religion is strict and concerned solely with the soul of the individual, or it is worse than nothing. A church without stiffness and formalism is unworthy of the name. There are some people who are highly enough evolved they can educe the discipline needed for highest achievement, but ordinary people require the structure a good church and religion can provide. It really doesn't matter overly whether the religion is "true." Such things are hard to say, mostly just a jumble of feelings. But the fact is that people have been around for a long time, and they've always exhibited more or less the same nature. Since the beauty of being a human, unlike a nigger or an attractive animal, is that we can pass on knowledge from generation to generation, this ought to allow us to devise forms that guide fresh young in proper channels, that they can make the most of their minds and bodies and lives. Finding these forms hollowed, destroyed, replaced with their evil opposites was a large part of my motivation in starting VNN. I had as many advantages as probably 95% of the people reading this site in life in terms of coming from a stable family, and having a "good" education. But I still found that what I sought simply was not there. And there was no one to tell me how to find it. I had to dig it out on my own, puzzle it out by finding bits and pieces -- and thinking them into order. I never ran into any professors sympathetic to to my thoughts. I say this not because my experience was unique, but because I suspect is absolutely common, absolutely par for the course. I suspect there are very few genetically intelligent whites out there who don't realize that something is fundamentally wrong with the American system. I think that what the jews have done to the traditions of our people is, well, I dislike using moral language, but I'd have to call it evil... [color=blue]ed. note: skipping "kill the jews" part -- madrussian[/color]
2004-01-01 21:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=TexasAnarch]How do these go together? They don't. There is no middle groud anymore. If you are against Jews and Christian Zionists, you are on one side of the fence -- the American. If you are for jews and Christian Zionism, you are on the other side -- anti-American. Which side is Okie on? People keep posting up on this issue as if there weren't lives at stake, and lots of them.[/QUOTE]
I don't think thats true. I for one am against the US government. Not Americans as a people, although some things about you folks do tend to make me cringe lol ...
However I am defintely against Jews and Christian Zionists.
I think its more like if you are against the Jews then you are on the white side of the fence.
Maybe I read your post wrong though... I just don't see how being pro American goes hand in hand with being against zionism when the American government is nothing but a puppet for the Zionists to control at this point.
2004-01-02 01:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Demigorgona]... I just don't see how being pro American goes hand in hand with being against zionism when the American government is nothing but a puppet for the Zionists to control at this point.[/QUOTE]
It's a natural confusion here, I think, because even American nationalists don't quite grasp how history did a double-whammy on the US back in 1947.
In that year (with a few months slopping over before and after) both the National Security State and the State of Israel were born. There is a huge connection between those two entities; America's "security" agencies and the "nation" of Israel are joined at more than the hip.
With this as a given, discussing "Israel" and "America" gets ridiculous fast. It's why Eric Thompson coined "ZOG" even though nobody is really happy with that one anymore either. The whole trouble stems from the fact that the Izzy-US connection is basically dishonest. The elites want us to believe the fiction that they are two seperate entities; the conspiracy buffs want us to believe the equally absurd notion that Israel is the tail wagging the American dog.
Fact is, we got a real JerUSAlem on our hands here. There's two places on the map, for sure, but they got one head. (The easier to chop it off...?)
2004-01-02 02:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Okie et al.
Seems Linder has published his creed vis-a-vis Christianity at VNN, I am posting it here:
Religion is bad and good.
[url]http://vanguardnewsnetwork.com/lettersOct-Nov03/123003letters.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
Well that ambivalence about sums it up it seems to me. Linder's stream of consciousness/ one paragraph style is interesting, but somewhat obscufatory when it gets to discussing matters of real depth. At least he seems to be cognizant that it is a matter of some complexity, not only philosophical but social and political, ad a complexity he appears to give some leeway. Complexity of course is frustrating to the totalitarian mindset desirous as it is of "simple answers to complex problems".
Seperate and apart from transcendent calculations, it is clear that any society requires some sort of ethos, and any such ethos independent of the nation/state always bears the possibility of being manipulated against the nation/state. However state control of religion eventually destroys it, so the recognition of some pretense of independence always seems to be acknowledged by the all states, except the most extreme totalitarian ones, like Maoist China, Albania, or Pol Pot's Cambodia.
Anyway thanks for posting what appears to be a good representation of Linder's ramblings.