← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Ed Toner
Thread ID: 11526 | Posts: 7 | Started: 2003-12-18
2003-12-18 21:52 | User Profile
The Hitler-Hess Deception [url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007141181/qid=1071777590/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_0_2/026-6459292-2090829[/url]
I'm stunned!!
Tonight, at 8:15pm on NTV in the show 'TECHNIK & TRENDS' we were shown an Interview with the English Historian MARTIN ALLEN, in which he very clearly stated that according to documents he found in the British Archives, Rudolf Hess flew to Gt Britain with Hitler's knowledge and with a 7 Point peace plan from Hitler in his pocket.
Hitler's Peace Plan included:
a) Withdrawal of all German Troops from Poland, Belgium, France & Holland.
b) Reimbursement for war damage to those countries
c) Total German disarmament
d) Destruction of all German war weaponry.
This offer threw the British Govt. under Churchill who had ready made plans to force Germany into a war into a turmoil and the British knew they couldn't accept Hitler's offer, so they threw Hess into Prison and tossed away the key.
What also came out of the interview was the fact that the British were not worried about Nazi 'brutality' at all but the extremely successful model of government the Germans (Hitler) had devised.
Martin Allen has written all this in his latest book.
And THIS on German TV....heads will roll!!
[url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0304355259/ref=pd_bxgy_text_2_cp/026-8074348-3662030[/url] The '45: Bonnie Prince Charlie and the Untold Story of the Jacobite Rising
Reviews
Book Description The first full history of the '45 Synopsis This work addresses a crucial episode in British history: the last time that a British monarch stood a serious chance of being unseated by a dynastic rival at the head of an army. The '45 Rising has been romanticized over the centuries in many books and films, and still arouses strong emotions in Scotland. Based on original research in all available archives, including Swedish, French and German records, this work makes nonsense of the many popular histories based on self-serving accounts written by a few of the key participants. But it is no dry academic analysis. Christopher Duffy writes a vivid narrative that overturns many accepted "facts" about The '45. His text is supported by numerous maps and a comprehensive guide to the key sites that can be visited today.
2003-12-18 22:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ed Toner]The Hitler-Hess Deception [url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007141181/qid=1071777590/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_0_2/026-6459292-2090829[/url]
I'm stunned!!
Tonight, at 8:15pm on NTV in the show 'TECHNIK & TRENDS' we were shown an Interview with the English Historian MARTIN ALLEN, in which he very clearly stated that according to documents he found in the British Archives, Rudolf Hess flew to Gt Britain with Hitler's knowledge and with a 7 Point peace plan from Hitler in his pocket.
Hitler's Peace Plan included:
[B][COLOR=Blue]a) Withdrawal of all German Troops from Poland, Belgium, France & Holland.
b) Reimbursement for war damage to those countries
c) Total German disarmament
d) Destruction of all German war weaponry.[/COLOR][/B]
This offer threw the British Govt. under Churchill who had ready made plans to force Germany into a war into a turmoil and the British knew they couldn't accept Hitler's offer, so they threw Hess into Prison and tossed away the key.[/QUOTE]I have long felt there was far more involved with Hess that never was made public. I do not know if I can believe all 4 points, most especially total German disarmament, but I am quite sure Hitler wanted to strike a deal with the British.
2003-12-19 05:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ed Toner]The Hitler-Hess Deception
I'm stunned!!
... the English Historian MARTIN ALLEN, in which he very clearly stated that according to documents he found in the British Archives, Rudolf Hess flew to Gt Britain with Hitler's knowledge and with a 7 Point peace plan from Hitler in his pocket. [/QUOTE]
This is a new angle on the Hess story. But I find it hard to believe because the Brit. government would NEVER allow such information leek out...or at least not deliberately? John
2003-12-19 10:51 | User Profile
Personally, I give Hitler credit for having more intelligence than to ever seriously contemplate implementing points c) and d). There are after all other world powers besides (then) Great Britain to consider, and, of course, Barbarrosa loomed.
Whether Hitler knew of Hessââ¬â¢s mission beforehand is a genuine enigma. Nor is the matter settled by unveiling British records based on something that Hess said while in their captivity. Doubtless he was highly motivated and thought the prospect for a negotiated peace between the two countries a good one--the daring flight alone attests to this--but it is not out of the realm of impossibility that he ââ¬Åadjustedââ¬Â his tactics, and quickly, perhaps implying that more German sweets would be forthcoming, when British indifference became apparent to him.
What is certain is that the British people, and indeed the world, was denied the opportunity to know the full extent of concessions that Germany, then nearing the height of its powers, was willing to make to end the war that we now know signalled the death knell of western civilization.
2003-12-19 14:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sisyfos] .... Nor is the matter settled by unveiling British records based on something that Hess said while in their captivity. [/QUOTE]
The point that the author MARTIN ALLEN contends is that Hess arrived in Britain - quoting him - with a [I]"with a 7 Point peace plan from Hitler in his pocket."[/I]
If this documentary evidence is being kept secret by the British authorities by hiding it in their archives and if knowledge of this somehow is made officially public then this is a lot more than just settling speculation about whether Hitler knew or not. It is then deception by the British government on a massive scale. No politicians on either side of the Atlantic - or the other end of the Mediterranean for that matter - can afford to let this one out of the bag. The National Socialist regime of Hitlerââ¬â¢s Germany would be cast in a completely different light.
DZ
2003-12-31 22:41 | User Profile
I have no problem believing Britain encouraged war, as it has done repeatedly throughout its history in order to keep its competitors weak. But as others have commented, I can't believe Hitler would authorise the disarmament of Germany. Also Abert Speer in his autobiography, [I]Inside the Third Reich[/I], plainly states that Hitler was shocked by the news of Hess's flight. I suppose one could argue that Speer didn't know the whole story and Hitler was only shocked at the result of the flight. However, Speer actually says that upon finding out about the flight, Hitler expressed hope that Hess would crash and drown in the North Sea! Not what one would expect had Hitler known ahead of time. Hitler was also afraid the Japanese would turn against him if he were perceived as extending peace feelers. Speer recalls Hitler lamenting that no one would believe that he had [U]not[/U] known of the flight. I suspect there is more to this story, I'll admit it doesn't make sense for Hess to have flown off on his own, but the above explanation doesn't quite fit.
-Llen
2004-01-01 18:41 | User Profile
Hitler's Peace Plan included: a) Withdrawal of all German Troops from Poland, Belgium, France & Holland. b) Reimbursement for war damage to those countries c) Total German disarmament d) Destruction of all German war weaponry.
[QUOTE]Personally, I give Hitler credit for having more intelligence than to ever seriously contemplate implementing points c) and d). There are after all other world powers besides (then) Great Britain to consider, and, of course, Barbarrosa loomed.
I guess there is a mistranslation. I found the following text in the journal "Der Preuße" (The Prussian) issue September/October 2003.
[URL=http://www.preussenderfreistaat.de/index2_mit_werbung.htm]Preußen der Freistaat[/URL]
Das Angebot von deutscher Seite:
Treffen der Vertragsparteien auf neutralem Boden unter der Schirmherrschaft eines neutralen Staates wie der Schweiz oder der Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika.
Wiederherstellung der Unabhängigkeit von Norwegen, Dänemark, Holland, Belgien und Frankreich zur Wahl ihrer eigenen Verfassung und Regierung gegen den Ausschluß einer feindseligen Haltung gegenüber Deutschland und die Zusicherung, auf Vergeltung zu verzichten. Rückzug der deutschen Streitkräfte ohne Anspruch auf militärische Zugeständnisse durch die genannten Länder und Bereitschaft, über die im Krieg entstandenen Schäden einen Wiederherstellungsvertrag abzuschließen.
Zerstörung aller Angriffswaffen und Abbau aller Streitkräfte auf ein Maß, welches den wirtschaftlichen und strategischen Bedürfnissen der einzelnen Länder entspricht.
Rückgabe der früheren deutschen Kolonien unter Verzicht auf darüberhinausgehende koloniale Ansprüche ...
Wiederherstellung der nationalen Selbständigkeit des polnischen Staates mit Ausnahme der von der UDSSR besetzten Gebiete. Nichtbehinderung der Tschechoslowakei hinsichtlich der Pflege ihrer völkischen Eigenheit unter dem Schutz des Deutschen Reiches.
Verfolgung einer erweiterten europäischen Gemeinsamkeit und Lösung wichtiger wirtschaftlicher Fragen im Verhandlungsweg und mit nationaler europäischer Zustimmung.
[SIZE=4]Translation:[/SIZE] * The concessions of the German war party:
Meeting of the negotiating parties on neutral territory under the surveillance of a neutral state like Switzerland or the United States of America.
Reestablishment of the independance of Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium und France with the freedom to chose their own constitutions and forms of government under the provision of nonhostility against Germany and the reassurance to renounce any retaliation. Withdrawl of all German forces without any demand of military concessions by the countries involved and the willingness to sign treaties dealing with reimbursement for war damage.
Destruction of all weapons allowing the waging of a war of aggression as well as a reduction of troops to a level that is in accordance to the economic and strategic necessities of the individual countries.
Return of the former German colonies with the renunciation of all further colonial claims ...
Reestablishment of the national sovereignity of the Polish state with the exception of the territories occupied by the USSR. No policy hindering Czechoslovakia from maintaining its ethnic particularity under the protection of the German Empire.
Pursuit of a deeper European cooperation with the solution of important economic questions by means of negotiations and with a national European agreement.*
I guess points c) and d) are due to mistranslations. I guess point 3. means a general European disarmament, not a unilateral German one.