← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Sertorius
Thread ID: 11298 | Posts: 16 | Started: 2003-11-29
2003-11-29 14:29 | User Profile
'Southern' identity grows less assertive Norman Arey - Staff Saturday, November 29, 2003
"I'm Southern and proud of it" has slowly evolved into "I'm Southern and I'm feeling a bit guilty and a little ashamed."
A decade of research distilled by Vanderbilt University suggests the number of proud Southerners is declining, with some rejecting the label of "Southerner" while the idea of what a Southerner might be is being diluted by newcomers.
The South --- the home of good ol' boys and pickup trucks, the stereotypical images recently mentioned by Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean; of yellow dogs with grease spots on their backs; of front porch swings --- may still be around, but Southern pride is disappearing, the study suggests.
Between 1991 and 2001, those living in the South who thought of themselves as Southern declined from about 78 percent to 70 percent, according to Vanderbilt sociologist Larry Griffin.
His study analyzed responses to 19 polls conducted during the period by the University of North Carolina. The polls asked about 18,000 people in 13 Southern states whether they considered themselves Southerners. More than 10,000 had lived their entire life in the South, and all but 1,800 had lived in the South at least a decade. Nearly 2,800 African-Americans and about 12,500 whites were among those interviewed.
None of the polls --- conducted in the 11 states of the Confederacy, plus Kentucky and Oklahoma --- pursued the responses further to learn why people felt as they did, and the polls did not offer a definition of "Southern."
Georgia author Terry Kay, a Royston native whose novels about the South include "To Dance With the White Dog" and "The Year the Lights Came On," says he knows why: "It's because we have made this migration from the rural South to the urban South," he said. "When you leave that rural place, you leave the South. We don't retain our Southern expressions, our Southern values."
Since 1995, more than 1.8 million people have migrated from other parts of the country to the South, according to the Census Bureau.
Griffin, the Vandy sociologist, says his personal definition of being Southern is a sense of belonging. "The label 'Southerner' has always had such strong historical and emotional resonance," he said. "A Southerner is we who are grounded by and out of a Southern region. It's not mint juleps, and it's not racists. To be Southern is to be part of a very special place. That place is both good and bad; it's almost contradictory. Being Southern is within one's self."
Griffin said, ''For persons of color, the poor, for political liberals or Democrats, it may be an image they reject.''
Individual opinions
So the Journal-Constitution put the Vanderbilt study to an unscientific test in Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee.
Why are we feeling less Southern?
"The only thing I can figure is the past traditions," said Raymond Scott, an African-American UPS driver in his hometown of Cleveland, Tenn. "I know years ago in the South, it was known to be racially slow to change. A lot of black people migrated out because of it. I remember trying to vote and how hard it was in earlier days."
"Here in the South, life was different," said Earlene Harper, an Alabama native and a volunteer at the Cherokee County Museum in Centre, Ala. "We've had a lot of cameras on us in the South because we at one time had slaves. I myself feel a little bit guilty."
Jeremy Hannah, who is from Atlanta but now works in a Cleveland, Tenn., clothing store, says he feels the area's struggle with racism is what causes Southerners to shun the label. "I think that's why some people consider [being Southern] to be degrading," he said. "Other people say Southerners aren't as bright, not as clean. I think people are saying 'no' because of that stereotype. . . . But I don't agree [with the stereotype]. I'm Southern, and I'm proud."
In the study, males tended to have a higher denial rate (9.2 percent) than females (6.2 percent). Whites backed away marginally more (5 percent) than blacks (4 percent) but not as much as Asians and Native Americans (9 percent) or Hispanics (19 percent).
People in small towns and rural areas felt less Southern (8 percent) than those in cities and suburban areas (6 percent). "I'm not sure why," said Dr. Harry Watson, director for the UNC Center that did the polls. "We did find that the strongest Southern identity was for those who had moved away --- or moved away and moved back."
Stigma of racism
Staunch in their Southernness were mainline Protestants and those with no church affiliation, political conservatives, Republicans and the most affluent.
Tim Sanders, originally from Michigan, moved first to Atlanta and then to Alabama. "I think a lot of the older folks are dying out, the kind of people who sit down at a [restaurant] and tell racist jokes; you just see a lot less of it," he said. "There's been kind of a stereotypical negative about black people and Southerners. I can tell you that Alabama was a joke in Michigan. I would assume that due to the media coverage; folks down here are much more aware of the negatives."
Bill Hain, another transplant from Michigan and a general store owner in Cleveland, Tenn., thinks some of the decline might be attributed to the debates in some Southern states about removing Confederate symbols from state flags.
"There are people up here driving down the street with a huge Confederate flag flying behind them." he said. "But I feel comfortable. I think Midwesterners and Southerners have a lot in common. . . . But some of the traditions down here in the South are changing."
Stereotypes and the South's lagging willingness to desegregate haven't helped the image, said Centre, Ala., banker Neil Compton. "If you talk to some people up North, we're put down because of our accent, the race riots here and because of George Wallace," he said. "I went to school in Georgia, and I was looked down upon because I was from Alabama. I didn't see much difference between Georgia and Alabama."
Low test scores and near-bottom rankings in national academic achievement tests were on the mind of Bobby Connell of Gaylesville, Ala.,
"I feel some embarrassment and shame because of how underfunded our school system is," said Connell. "You've got a lot of older people who want to stick to the old-fashioned way of doing things. You mention any kind of tax [for the schools] and they think it's just terrible."
Still others have grown into being Southerners, by a personal definition.
"If you live in one place for so long, you feel like you're home," said Salvador Loza, 34, a native of Mexico employed by Downtown Jewelers in Dalton. "I was 17 when I came here, and I enjoy the quiet and the opportunities. Yes, I feel Southern."
Yesenia Medina, 19, also from Mexico and a salesclerk in Dalton, said, "I feel comfortable here and [in Mexico]. I consider myself both Southern and Hispanic, I guess."
Griffin concluded his paper with this: "The South of tomorrow will be more urban, home to more newcomers and display greater religious and ethnic diversity. Southern identity's core constituencies have shrunk. Most groups of Southerners --- including some of those usually more closely identified with the South --- have cooled somewhat in their enthusiasm for the label 'Southern.' "
Perhaps Hodding Carter III's proclamation in 1990 that the South is dead is true. Carter, a former Mississippi newspaper editor and U.S. State Department spokesman, said, "The South as South, a living, ever-regenerating, mythic land of distinctive personality, is no more. What is lurching into existence in the South is purely and contemporaneously mainstream American, for better and for worse."
SOUTHERNERS Here's the average percentage of "yes" responses over an 11-year period to a University of North Carolina survey that asked, "Do you consider yourself to be a Southerner or not?":
Alabama........90% Arkansas...... 94% Florida........51% Georgia........80% Kentucky...... 73% Louisiana......88% Mississippi....90% North Carolina 81% Oklahoma...... 53% South Carolina 84% Tennessee......86% Texas..........69% Virginia...... 64%
CHUCK BLEVINS / Staff
[url=http://www.ajc.com/saturday/content/epaper/editions/saturday/metro_f38c94f1f58251741080.html]http://www.ajc.com/saturday/content/epaper/editions/saturday/metro_f38c94f1f58251741080.html[/url]
2003-11-29 17:58 | User Profile
It's important to remember that the established elite has done all in its power to deracinize and trample the South. The South being the exemplar of values and traditions that the elite despise and wish to was out of existence. This attack has been going on, and has been largely successful in shaming a people about its past.Fortunately, large numbers of people are on to this ruse and have held fast, but the numbers are decreasing. Above all it must be remembered that the people in the media, academe, churches , temples , mosques, who have conspired in this insidious warfare are the arch enemies of western man, and the white race. The Blacks alone could never in their wildest dreams embark upon and be successful in such a campaign.
2003-11-29 18:56 | User Profile
Gentleman, two excellent post's, yes indeed. There is a 1961 movie by Roger Corman and starring William Shatner "A pet" titled "The Intruder" This movie was a 40th Anniversary editon sold in 2001. I don't have cable but I have a few DVD's, but this movie blew my mind. There is a 40 minute section were Roger Corman and Shatner, are sitting on two chairs in a studio in 2001 remembering the details making the movie 40 years ago. Where corpulent Shatner and Corman bragg on, about how rightious they were in the theme of the movie and how they had made this a pro intergration anti- Southern movie.. It was written by Hugh Beaumont, who wrote for TV, Twilight Zone, and I think some Leave it to Beaver.. But there a is prowhite speech by the character in the movie, that was Profectic! Really GOOD! I paid ten filthy reserve notes for it.. If you can see this one, it is something to bedhold..I am chucking thinking about it.. As Hooey Weird knew exactly what they were doing.....
2003-11-29 19:16 | User Profile
I personally make it a point to avoid regionalism, but when I read articles like this one and ones that accuse my ancestors of being traitors I will say something. For years "liberals" have been attempting to deracinate the South to no avail. Then 12 year ago, the N.A.A.C.P. discovered that they were running out of money and renewed that attack. I note that in addition to the usual suspects that the neocons were quick to jump on this bandwagon and have been just as bad if not worse than the N.A.A.C.P. People like Norman Podhoretz seem to think that the only history worthwhile is that of his tribe flooding the U.S. from eastern Europe at the turn of the 20th Century. It was nothing but darkness until they arrived to be to us peasants the "light unto the world."
I think that what we have here is an "[I]americanized"[/I] version of denazification. They certainly equate the Old South with Nazi Germany and believe that becaused it worked so well there that it will here too. I didn't think that and I hope that this article is wrong for if they succeed, they will go onto rewrite the rest of American History as well.
The article notes that alot of people who live in the South aren't native born. That is one big reason for the change. The other of course is sheer brain washing. As for the Mexicans, I have a sneaking suspicion that one of the reasons why nothing is done about immigration here (and elsewhere) is that they want to ruin this region.
2003-11-30 02:33 | User Profile
[southern accent]: "Them southern boys done be castrated by the Jew, just like everyone else. 'Course, them Jewboys used Blacks as the weapon of choice against the South, but nonetheless, them southern boys are now 'fraid of their own shadows, if ya ask me.......but it's o.k., 'cause the modern, conservative judeo-churches will fix everything in America......right? Right?"
Suuuure. Hey, ya wanna buy some real estate in the Florida Everglades? Real cheap. $100,000 per square inch, plus, ya gotta buy a reeaallyy big water pump. Howz that? Sound good? Send me the money -- cash only.
2003-11-30 20:33 | User Profile
This article is a bunch of garbage and typlifies the arrogance of the elite in their disdain for traditional American values. Being from Alabama, I think the Southern Identity is still strong despite the efforts of the elites.
However, the worst of society is always the most easily brainwashed. I imagine the white trash who embrace our decadent pop culture no longer identify themselves as Southern; but can their opinions be taken seriously? Of course recent Northern transplants into the South will not identify themselves as Southern either.
From my experience the wealthier and more traditional the upbringing, the more likely someone is to identify themselves as Southern.
2003-12-01 03:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Being from Alabama, I think the Southern Identity is still strong despite the efforts of the elites. [/QUOTE] The poll doesn't really do that much to support the thesis that Southern identity is weakening. North Carolina and Georgia have experienced huge immigration from the North, plus Mexican immigration. So they sit around 80%. Oklahoma nad most of Texas aren't part of the South, so they're at 53% and 69%. Kentucky and Virginia are border states that have been encroached upon, so their numbers are in the 60's. Florida -- well, Jacksonville and Tallahassee are Southern, but most of the state is not. So Florida's in the 50's.
2003-12-01 08:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]'Southern' identity grows less assertive Norman Arey - Staff Saturday, November 29, 2003
"I'm Southern and proud of it" has slowly evolved into "I'm Southern and I'm feeling a bit guilty and a little ashamed."
SOUTHERNERS Here's the average percentage of "yes" responses over an 11-year period to a University of North Carolina survey that asked, "Do you consider yourself to be a Southerner or not?":
Alabama........90% Arkansas...... 94% Florida........51% Georgia........80% Kentucky...... 73% Louisiana......88% Mississippi....90% North Carolina 81% Oklahoma...... 53% South Carolina 84% Tennessee......86% Texas..........69% Virginia...... 64% [/QUOTE] Well coming from a state just two points above Florida, I can't say much about what's making Southerners lose their Southerness, because here I never really saw that much of it to begin with. I guess Okies view themselves more as midwesterners.
Of course a lot of old-line rural Okies moved here from the South. Mabe that's the whole key. Moving from someplace doesn't make you a native of that place, unless you have ties that bind. Maybe Okies don't have much ties to anything it seems, but are just as Steinbeck described "tumbleweeds blown by the wind".
Worlds a changin, and with globalization and urbanization bet there are a lot more tumbleweeds blowing around in the future.
2003-12-01 13:13 | User Profile
Okie,
Don't let Michael A. Grissom hear you say that!
2003-12-01 17:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Okie,
Don't let Michael A. Grissom hear you say that![/QUOTE] I'll have to look him up.
I think seriously though that regional ties and identities are tough in this day and age to keep up unless there is some nagging cultural factor that keeps them going. The football/economic rivalry across the Red River is one thing that keeps Texas and Okies going.
I wonder if the reason southern identity is more pronounced in the southeastern states is the similar rivalry built up over the years with the northern states like Illinois and Michagan where a lot of rural southerners went to look for jobs, and in the process were stigmatized somewhat, and in turn jawboned back against the deficiencies of their new homes.
Okies and Texans don't really have any similar dialectical relationship with states to the Nawth. They all moved to California, which is a whole nother can of worms, or at least fruitcake.
2003-12-01 17:56 | User Profile
Okie,
He wrote a book entitled Southern by the Grace of God and he is from Oklahoma.
I think the thing that keeps the South with its own regional identity is the War for Southern Independence. People still remember that despite the current brainwashing. Most folks down here dislike being look down upon and treated the way a poor relative is by some of the more ignorant people who hail from other parts of the nation. Interestingly enough, I wasn't insulted by Dean's comment. I believe that I understood what he meant. Instead, I was more insulted by the neo-cons who tried to capitalize on this when it is they who have said equally ugly things about Dixie in an attempt to get the vote of people like me.
Texans don't really have any similar dialectical relationship with states to the Nawth. They all moved to California, which is a whole nother can of worms, or at least fruitcake.
You just ain't whistling Dixie to that! :lol:
2004-06-13 00:06 | User Profile
Sertorius,
Sadly very True! [QUOTE]I think that what we have here is an "americanized" version of denazification. They certainly equate the Old South with Nazi Germany and believe that becaused it worked so well there that it will here too. I didn't think that and I hope that this article is wrong for if they succeed, they will go onto rewrite the rest of American History as well. [/QUOTE]
I will say what made the South Great was it was Old America; were the culture of the W.A.S.P. was still strong and ready to fight. It sad to the most right-wing part of this nation being destroyed by Afros and Mexicans.
2004-06-13 04:49 | User Profile
Might not this decline follow the proliferation of mini dishes into rural area's. Areas that were previously protected from cable coverage by cost and low population density.
2004-06-14 13:14 | User Profile
"Where corpulent Shatner and Corman bragg on, about how rightious they were in the theme of the movie and how they had made this a pro intergration anti- Southern movie.. It was written by Hugh Beaumont, who wrote for TV, Twilight Zone, and I think some Leave it to Beaver..."
We look bad to the as-yet-racially-unaware when we don't get our facts straight.
[I]Hugh[/I] Beaumont was an affable B-movie actor who achieved fame as Ward Cleaver in the long-running TV series [I]Leave It To Beaver[/I]. He died of lung cancer in Germany, in 1982. His writing credits were few, and mostly limited to an epsode of his own show: [url]http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0064604/[/url]
[I]Charles[/I] Beaumont, prolific science-fiction/fantasy writer with a short, rather sad, life, was a frequent contributor to [I]The Twilight Zone[/I]: [url]http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Charles-Beaumont[/url]
It was [I]Charles[/I] Beaumont who wrote the loathsome, self-righteous, White-self-hating film [I]The Intruder[/I]: [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055019/[/url]
2004-06-14 17:23 | User Profile
It probably is true that some of the younger generation feel themselves less Southern, mostly due to the influence of the government schools. In general, however, the results of this survey are likely due to the influx of Yankees and Mexicans into the South. You can hardly expect foreigners to feel Southern, now can you?
2004-06-15 01:05 | User Profile
[font=Times New Roman]I consider myself a Southerner in spirit though I am Californian by accident of birth. It's really a state of mind. Whenever people ask me about my "nationality" and expect me to say something other than "American", I tell them I'm Confederate.[/font]