← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Buster
Thread ID: 11292 | Posts: 22 | Started: 2003-11-28
2003-11-28 20:35 | User Profile
[url]http://atlblogs.com/republicansfordean/[/url]
I am a conservative former republican seriously considering supporting Howard Dean. I don't believe I am alone.
Dean is the only serious candiate who is credibly anti-war, a prerequisite for my support. If he spells out a more detailed vision for a post cold war foreign policy, he may have me on board.
If you can't control military activism, nothing is going to stop the government from engorging itself at home. Hence Bush is out of the question. My idea is to use Dean to rein in the military, and republicans in control of congress to rein in Dean. Conservatives might then have hope after all.
We may be at the point of the reversal of the cold war formula for split government--this time republicans would control the congress and the democrats the presidency. That is to say, conservatives may find this the most opportune situation. With government growth under Republicans now at outrageous levels, and Bush making Woodrow Wilson sound like a pragmatist, this may be the best option.
2003-11-28 22:33 | User Profile
If I had to vote for a Republican or Democrat in the upcoming presidential race, Dean would likely be the one I'd pick as well. But that's moot as far as I'm concerned, since I'm never going to vote for a Republican or Democrat for president again (unless by some miracle Ron Paul is nominated by the GOP). Both major parties are anti-freedom and anti-Constitution; both are controlled by the Israel-first lobby; and each has its own list of special interest groups to suck up to. The American political system is so screwed up now that nothing short of an armed guerrilla uprising can make it right again.
2003-11-28 23:37 | User Profile
Do you guys realize Howard dean is married to a Jew?
[url]http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/000671.html[/url]
2003-11-29 02:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]Do you guys realize Howard dean is married to a Jew?
[url]http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/000671.html[/url][/QUOTE] I'd have to agree, not voting is a better choice than giving a seal of approval to any of those slime running.
2003-11-29 16:05 | User Profile
As I mentioned, Dean will have to spell out a comprehensive new foreign policy plank before I'll support him. I think the far left of his party will demand it as well.
His backbone so far has not been impressive. He grovelled after the "confederate flag" comment; he backed off after calling for a more "balanced" Middle East policy, etc.
He is wrong about just about everything, but we have to re-orient our foreign policy some time, and if he sets about doing it, we may have to hold our noses and give him the opportunity.
Guerillla warfare might be a greater possibility in Europe, with smaller countries, smaller media outlets and smaller security forces. Plus a long history of de-Judaizing.
2003-11-30 06:05 | User Profile
Supporting Dean would be a mistake. His wife and children are Jews; thus, he is the true Jew candidate in this race.
2003-11-30 12:08 | User Profile
I didn't realize that Dean had those Jewish connections in his family. That certainly does change things -- although I did say in my previous post that I will almost certainly never vote for a Democrat or Republican again anyway. That includes Dean.
We can't rely on our votes to change the system in any case. Even if someone like Ron Paul were elected president, he wouldn't be able to single-handedly prevent Congress from overwhelmingly approving all kinds of crap. Too many so-called Americans support aid to Israel, gun control, drug prohibition, social security, and countless other forms of unconstitutional legislation in this tyranny-of-the-majority we now live in.
2004-01-14 23:09 | User Profile
I started this thread, but reading Dean's position on immigration makes me loathe to admit it. Here it is:
"America is an immigrant nation. As President, I will recognize and respect the vital role immigrants have played in building the American community.
Candidate Bush promised that he would be a different kind of Republican, supportive of immigrants and their desires to achieve the American Dream. Candidate Bush promised to revamp the naturalization process so that immigrants who met the requirements could obtain their citizenship in six months or less. In 2001, President Bush said he would work with President Fox of Mexico to develop a new immigration policy that recognized the economic contribution of immigrants, particularly those from Mexico, and that would respect the human rights of these migrants.
Unfortunately, President Bush has not kept these promises.
While he made these promises and invited mariachis to play at the White House, his Attorney General, John Ashcroft, was deputizing local police authorities as junior INS agents to track down undocumented immigrants. Instead of exercising leadership to achieve comprehensive immigration reform, President Bush has turned his back on Mexico and other Latin American countries. He has ignored the dreams of millions of immigrants to become a legitimate part of our society, and not simply its unseen workforce. Instead of revamping and streamlining the immigration agency and its processes, the President has allowed the agency to be swallowed up into the Department of Homeland Security, where immigrants are routinely treated as terrorists until proven otherwise.
We need a White House that will lead Congress to enact real immigration reform. As President, I will work tirelessly to achieve that goal.
*
I will work to ensure that people who work hard, pay taxes, and otherwise obey the rules can become full participants in our society, including becoming citizens.
*
I will work to regularize the inevitable future migration of labor in a way that makes economic and humanitarian sense. Deaths in the desert do neither.
*
I will propose reforms that ensure we can meet our economyââ¬â¢s need for workers at all skill levels, without pitting foreign workers against U.S. workers and while respecting workers' rights including the right to organize.
*
I will work to forge stronger partnerships with countries from which immigrants migrate -- especially Mexico -- so that in the long run, fewer people will be driven by desperation to break laws and risk their lives for basic opportunities that every human being deserves.
*
I will work to ensure that immigrants who are detained by the Department of Homeland Security are afforded their basic civil rights and that our concern for national security does not become another excuse for racial profiling.
*
I will build on our countryââ¬â¢s long history of welcoming immigrants in ways that reflect our need for security but do not sacrifice the basic ideals upon which this nation was founded."
2004-01-15 01:23 | User Profile
"I am a conservative former republican seriously considering supporting Howard Dean. I don't believe I am alone."
You're not. While I'm technically a Democrat (on St. Patrick's Day of last year, a couple of days before we invaded Iraq, I switched my registration from Republican to Democract, both as an anti-Bush/anti-neocon protest and in order to give myself some small say in who the Democrats nominate for President), I definitely identify far more as a Republican. I'm convinced Dean, despite his myriad "liberal" faults, would be a superior President as compared to Dumbya. Dean's opposition to the invasion of Iraq is far more conservative than the Bush administration's seemingly Trotskyite policy of endless war against every nation on Earth, other than Israel, the U.K., Turkey, Kuwait and Australia....
2004-01-15 13:59 | User Profile
Yep you are not alone...My fiance is working for the Dean Campaign, and he is right wing libertarian.
I am more conservative than he is, so i am having a harder time of it. At first i seriously considered voting for Dean, i am so desperate to get that socialist Bush out of office.
I voted for Bush mistakenly believing he was conservative, i will not make the mistake of voting republican again, now that the party has been hijacked by neocons..these people are no better than thugs. I have actually had the misfortune of talking on bulletin boards with some of these people, for the most part they are rude, nasty, and incredibley shallow thinkers...and they think that Bush is annointed by God..
Our entire system has been at the mercy of the industrial military complex on one hand (which is why we have endless bloodletting for no REAL reason, while our enemies slowly infiltrate our borders and run the corporations that owns our congress)or on the other hand of the huge banking establishment that impoverishes the middle class by inflating the money supply.
Aside:(I watched Greenspan speak the other day and was gratified when someone FINALLY called him on it. He was warning that protectionism would "threaten this recovery" and that globalization was the key to expanding wealth creation..(what recovery..and wealth for whom?)Someone stood up and told this Bankster Bufoon that most americans could tell him that his policies had NOT created wealth for them, and that the times in america's history we experienced the greatest wealth and prosperity were actually during times when we had the greatest protectionist measures in place, and it had made us the envy of the world..)
Okay back to Dean, i like him because he is anti-establishment...the beltway political parasites here in DC are afraid of him, which is what made me seriously consider voting for him..
Yes, Dean's wife is Jewish (i believe his kids are being raised Jewish), other democrats that are stealth Jews (of course lieberman is open about it) are Kucinich, Clark (had a Rabbi father, i think i read that) , Kerry (his parents or grandparents converted to catholicism).
2004-01-15 14:40 | User Profile
Interestingly Charley Reese in the following column has all but endorsed Dean. Despite his conservative views he is still a registered Democrat because he states that he would rather deal with an honest socialist than a republican who tries to cover up his socialism. There is something wrong with his logic here, for there is no such thing as an honest socialist. Socialism and it brother Communism are built on nothing but deception, lies, and blood. I find it also illogical to me that many of you and your friends who are normally conservative would vote for Dean, who is a thorough liberal. It is more logical to find a party that you believe in and vote for the candidates there. I have never been a member of any party but have always voted Republican but this time I will vote for candidates of the Constitution Pary and am thinking about joining it.
Well, here is Charley's most recent column:
A Year For Youth
When the voting age was lowered to 18, there was a great expectation that youth would flock to the polls. It's been an unfulfilled expectation.
This year, however, could be the year of youth, if young people respond to Howard Dean's appeal to their idealism. Dean is telling people that the only way to beat the super-rich and their toady, George Bush, is for people who have turned their backs on politics to get involved. That most certainly includes the 18-to-24 set. Instead of inviting people to $2,000-a-plate fund-raisers, he asks people to send what they can afford, even if it's just $10.
So far, about half-a-million people have responded. The jaded political reporters can say what they like, but Dean is a phenomenon. An obscure governor from an even more obscure state has raised more money and attracted more support that the Washington Establishment Democrats. And brother, are they dumbfounded and ticked off. Republicans won't have to write any attack ads; the other Democratic candidates are writing the ads for them.
But the Energizer Bunny, with his boyish smile, just stays right in their face and at the top of the polls. People should ask themselves why. What is this guy doing that has caused such an unusual public response? Don't buy the Washington bilge that it's just because he's against the war. Dennis Kucinich is against the war, and even Rep. Dick Gephardt and the blowhard senators, sanctimonious Joe Lieberman and the comically pompous John Kerry, have tried to backtrack from their war votes.
No, it's not the war in Iraq. I think what people are responding to is that for the first time in a long time, they have a genuine human being ââ¬â a guy who gets mad at the right things, a guy who says what he thinks, and a guy who doesn't talk in the tired political platitudes that have virtually killed any real communication inside the Washington Beltway. Lieberman, Gephardt and Kerry haven't had an original thought in decades.
Sure, Dean has said some things and then had to clarify. That's what human beings do. It's not what professional politicians ââ¬â who won't go to the bathroom without checking with their pollster ââ¬â do. But if you look closely at what Dean has said, he has not backed up one inch. He has admitted that he used words people misinterpreted ââ¬â in most cases, deliberately. He changed the words, not the thought.
I was surprised on a recent visit home to find both sons sporting "Dean Dude" T-shirts, and even my elderly sister is changing her registration from Republican to Democrat so that she can vote for Dean in the Florida primary. All of this happened with no input from me.
I'm not endorsing the guy. That's not my job, but political journalists in this country cover politics like it was a sport. They are interested in the race, not in the issues and the substance. I was infuriated the other day when some Republican was allowed to get away with saying that Dean has not offered anything but criticism and anger.
Heck fire, go to [url]www.deanforamerica.com[/url], and you will find out that Dean has spelled out his positions on practically every issue. Whether you agree with him or not is your business, but don't buy this barnyard rubbish that the guy has nothing to say. If he had nothing to say, he wouldn't be where he is today.
It's easy to be cynical about politics, but, folks, if you give up on politics, you are giving up on democracy. There are basically only two choices for choosing leaders ââ¬â bullets or ballots. I much prefer ballots. There is not a candidate in the race who takes all the positions I would like to see a candidate take, but we have to live in the real world. I prefer the world of Jefferson Davis, but come November, neither he nor anyone remotely like him is going to be on the ballot.
So get involved and vote for the man you think is best. You young people ought to realize that my generation has pretty well screwed things up for you. It's time for youth to step up to the plate and take a swing. You certainly can't do worse than we have.
[url]www.reese-kingonline.com[/url]
2004-01-15 14:54 | User Profile
True, in general the boomers have made the USA a wreck. I always tell my dad I don't appreciate the immigration act of 1965, he barely even knows what I'm talking about.
"Jay, nobody voted for that law. THey musta just passed it w/o us knowing" Well whatever dad, thanks for the band of Mexicans that just drove into my suburb and stared down my wife.
As for Dean, I'd never vote for him. He was so busy kissing black/hispanic BUTT the other nite, I almost vomited. Then again, my #1 concern is immigration. The war ranks about #44 down the list. ONE ISSUE means everything, to me.
2004-01-15 16:22 | User Profile
Dean is not an ideal candidate/politician, but I'm voting for him over Dumbya, that's for sure. 3rd party, where are you?? They know it's life and death this time, and if Jorge is re-elected, we're all dead.....that's a fact. Actually, if you read Dean's visions and attitudes towards immigration in the post above (thanks, Buster), it is realistic and if put into place would be better for Americans than Bush's come-one-come-all policy. I'm not saying Dean's positions are perfect, no way, but if you think there's a politician capable of being elected while promising to deport every illegal or even legal immigrants, you're dreaming.
[QUOTE]* I will propose reforms that ensure we can meet our economyââ¬â¢s need for workers at all skill levels, without pitting foreign workers against U.S. workers and while respecting workers' rights including the right to organize.
*I will work to forge stronger partnerships with countries from which immigrants migrate -- especially Mexico -- so that in the long run, fewer people will be driven by desperation to break laws and risk their lives for basic opportunities that every human being deserves.
*I will build on our countryââ¬â¢s long history of welcoming immigrants in ways that reflect our need for security but do not sacrifice the basic ideals upon which this nation was founded."[/QUOTE]
If Dean can stick to this and make it policy, it's 1000x better for Americans than what Bush has in store for us if re-elected.
GEORGE W BUSH MUST GO. PERIOD!!!
2004-01-15 17:14 | User Profile
Tweedles Dum & Dee
[url]http://www.carolontheweb.com/links/dee.html[/url]
I get great mail - from garden variety ****-yuus ââ¬â to Sunday school admonitions, and Israeli generated spam.
There are patient, indulgent, professionals, who remind me that the internet is an 'unforgiving medium' and thus, I simply must use ââ¬Ëstandardââ¬â¢ punctuation, if Iââ¬â¢m to retain the lofty imperiousness central to successful political blogging.
I get mail from neener-neener-Jews, and a ââ¬Ëreasoned hand upââ¬â¢ from academics willing to tutor me on the errors of my logic.
But my mainstay ââ¬â is from venomous, disillusioned former readers.
As a constituency of one, I always get around to offending somebody, sometime. And this week - it was White Racialist Bushies. They offered me photos of Howard Deanââ¬â¢s dreadful looking Jewish wife - complete bioââ¬â¢s on both of em. --- ââ¬ÅTheyââ¬â¢re owned, you know."
Well, of COURSE theyââ¬â¢re owned! Nobody gets to this level of national politics withOUT being owned ââ¬â by the people, and interests who live and breathe politics.
The rest of us have lives apart from such nefarious doings, so we aren't privy to the inside dope. We are 'otherwise engaged' in our ordinary lives, whilst the governing classes plot, profile, scheme and make war.
They are no better than feral dogs. Politicians gravitate to politics rather than industry, because its where the money is. And the power.
There are no white hats - no heroes. Your mayor and councilmen didn't join government to ââ¬Ëserveââ¬â¢ you dildoes. And political candidates are not people. They are FACES - selected to be the 'front' for coalitions of interests that manufacture candidates for our consumption. Then they manufacture an election. They run on a 'platform' that tells us who gets the money once they win.
Anything I said about Dean was within this narrow context. Dean is a politician first, and a living breathing, caring person, somewhere much farther down the list.
--- aaaaall I said in ââ¬ÅThe Deans Listââ¬Â is that Tweedle Dean -- appeals to me more than Tweedle Dum. The present ââ¬Ëadministrationââ¬â¢ is a jumble of crazed internationalists and neocons who want to take over the Middle East, steal the oil, and prop up their crazy relatives in Israel as 'custodians'.
The problem with this plan is that colonial occupation as a war strategy stopped working over a century ago. Vietnam was the last gasp for the new, improved, American brand.
But how could this president know that? ââ¬â He doesnââ¬â¢t read. Unless there is a coup on those whispering into his ear, America is destined to bankrupt itself, clashing and colliding with a world filled with unfriendly natives, who don't want razor wire democracy.
The rest of the 2004 presidential field is pretty much YES people, parroting the neocon resolve to continue the occupation, regardless of the cost, using pre-emptive strikes against any who resist the acid bath of our 'liberation'.
Listen to the 'candidates' - they all sound like Bush-lite -- America is a 'liberator', and all who resist are 'terrorists'. We are being conditioned to support this madness, out of fear of the enemies THEY create for us, with each cluster bomb dropped on somebody's neighborhood.
The only candidate that has been openly hostile to continuing this death march is Dean.
So what if heââ¬â¢s married to a Jewess? All candidates must have SOME attachment to Jews. This makes him more acceptable to them, since they put out the bucks to buy the elections. If he's married to one, he's ââ¬Ëokayââ¬â¢ - on board - a stealth operative - whatever you want to call him.
A useful goy -- thatââ¬â¢s it.
Connections to Jews - boys and girls- is a GIVEN in American politics - from dog catcher to sock puppet in chief. It's a given. The Hebes exercise complete veto power over any canditate.
We get candidates labeled only tweedles dum and dee at the national level. Free-thinkers who might challenge the 'system' are culled at the Board of Education level.
-- Iââ¬â¢ll amend that to - independent thinkers are culled at the COLLEGE level in America.
So, no, there are no 'renegade heroes' in any election. Anybody who thrives at the local level, is already corrupted. To achieve national status, candidates not only suck, they swallow.
I do pine for the Taki type national candidate, not unlike Pim Fortuyn - who unfortunately had to be Lady-Died before he did any REAL damage the EU power elite.î
2004-01-15 17:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]
If Dean can stick to this and make it policy, it's 1000x better for Americans than what Bush has in store for us if re-elected.
GEORGE W BUSH MUST GO. PERIOD!!![/QUOTE]
Ummmyeah, i agree.
However what concerns me is that we may being played for suckers.
What concerns me is that Bush has been so disasterously horrific for America..(except for the .00001% of CEOs of multinational businesses) That the only people that will still vote for him are the lobotomized Fox and Fiends Fanbase..
This smells like manipulation to me.
Maybe my thinking is just far too twisted, convoluted, and screwed up...but something doesm't sit well about this with me...call it a hunch.
You have a President who comes into town pretending to be conservative, promising to turn the white house back into a place of integrity..and what happens?
You have one of the worst disasters(9-11) to ever occur on american soil..followed by A COVER UP..alot of fingerpointing with NO EVIDENCE.. (keep in mind bin Laden is famous for taking credit for things he was never involved in)
All of a sudden we have legislation pushed through that is deleterious to our constitution, and we declare war with no evidence being presented...
Then we have the president lying to the american peole about going into Iraq...lying about many things..
**now please bear in mind that our media is completey controlled so the ALLOWED these things to "leak" out.....WHY?
I deeply suspect it is to convince an entire generation to never vote for a "conservative" again..the entire country is falling apart and we have an idiot "conservative" president who has two losing wars going, grows the fedgov by 27%, the list of idiocies is fairly comprehensive.. etc...
This is too pat, too convenient...and TOO DARNED STAGED FOR MY TASTE..SOMETHING IS JUST NOT RIGHT**
If you can get the real conservatives or budding conservatives to embrace socialism because a "conservative" president has nearly destroyed the country..THEY WIN.
That is why i got so darn nervous about my fiance being so quick to embrace the liberal credo...(and he was quite the conservative) under the pretext that SOMEONE HAS GOT TO PROTECT THE WORKING CLASS FROM THE BIG MULTINATIONAL CORPS..
Something just is not right about this...and it has mass manipulation written all over it.
2004-01-15 17:28 | User Profile
Politics is mass manipulation.
2004-01-15 17:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]"I am a conservative former republican seriously considering supporting Howard Dean. I don't believe I am alone."
You're not. While I'm technically a Democrat (on St. Patrick's Day of last year, a couple of days before we invaded Iraq, I switched my registration from Republican to Democract, both as an anti-Bush/anti-neocon protest and in order to give myself some small say in who the Democrats nominate for President), I definitely identify far more as a Republican. I'm convinced Dean, despite his myriad "liberal" faults, would be a superior President as compared to Dumbya. Dean's opposition to the invasion of Iraq is far more conservative than the Bush administration's seemingly Trotskyite policy of endless war against every nation on Earth, other than Israel, the U.K., Turkey, Kuwait and Australia....[/QUOTE]
Interesting. Since you're on felony probation, I would assume you're not allowed to vote in CA. Why bother switching or even belonging to any political party?
2004-01-16 05:06 | User Profile
Bush has done much more damage to America than Slick Willie Clinton. Hell he makes Clinton look good! We need to get rid of Bushie!
2004-01-16 07:04 | User Profile
I don't think policies will be interrupted, regardless. Emphasis will. If I had to scrape up a preference, I'd lean toward the one who was most obvious at bumbling idiocy. Besides, second terms are notoriously disillusioning.
2004-01-16 12:32 | User Profile
Faust,
There are only two reasons I can see for possibly voting for someone like Dean. One is to bring gridlock back. Unlike NAFTA where the Republicans were trapped by their free trade nonsense into supporting it, there is a chance without the nitwit in the Whitehouse they might actually act like Republicans in the past and block this.
As for Dean I think that there is an outside chance he might actually avoid starting any additional wars. While I wouldn't want to bet on that I believe that if Bush gets a second term we will not only see the amnesty pass, but further Jew inspired wars.
For me there is one more reason for possibly doing this and that is payback. I want to see the present cabal of Jews and traitors sent back to their think tanks where they can squall about how their sock puppet (and them) were rejected by an ungrateful people who can't appreciate their genius.
2004-01-16 20:11 | User Profile
One thing that does make Dean attractive is people like the Clintons, Clark and Leiberman all seem worried about him. It seems as if he really believes in the antiquated idea that liberals are supposed to care about working class people and even if he can't do anything about it, that still scares the hell out of elitists like Hillary.
I don't know if I like Dean or not, but for the record he is not that angry and he is not even the most liberal Democrat in the race. Look at Kucinich and Sharpton, and then there is Gephardt, who wants to resurrect the Clinton health care plan. The Democrats are roasting Dean for saying that Medicare was one of the worst government programs; That's what I like to hear.
I doubt I'll vote for Dean(I've never voted for a democrat actually) but I wouldn't mind seeing him win. His anti-war rhetoric will make it impossible for him to keep our troops in Iraq and be re-elected. One impressive thing he has said is that America needs to reject a policy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." I could hardly believe a modern politician had the guts to put his finger on the philosophy that allows the military industrial complex to export so much violence and instability to other countries. Both Saddam and Osama were built up to weaken our enemies. The idea that we can win wars by building up the enemies of our enemies has always resulted in disaster. (Even the Persians tried it against the Greeks; it paved the way for the Macedonians to arise and conquer Persia.) If Dean had the guts to change this one aspect of foreign policy, he would be worth voting for.
-LLen
2004-01-16 21:01 | User Profile
Faust said: "Bush has done much more damage to America than Slick Willie Clinton. Hell he makes Clinton look good! We need to get rid of Bushie!"
True so true..I am aware that it matters not who we vote for because the powers that be are out to take america down through whichever puppet gets elected.
(Aside:did you catch the greenspan speech and the surprising contestant number three who happened to be a proponent of LaRouche and irritated Sir Allen by telling him that he WOULD BE the LAST reigning head of the Fed? (oh it was pwecious..if you want the transcript i could put it up somewhere, or economica posted it on rumormillnews))
Anyway..perhaps i should abstain from voting..voting democrat might cause me a heart attack ...or...i could just go on a shooting spree..either way.