← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Chest Rockwell
Thread ID: 11283 | Posts: 36 | Started: 2003-11-27
2003-11-27 12:39 | User Profile
I'm posting this as a new thread because it has to do with just a part of a response from another thread and my questions take the subject in a direction unrelated to the original post.
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Again, I think you need to free your mind from the counter-productive and destructive doctrines of a polemicist like Linder. Haven't you already witnessed enough of the real-world disastrous results of his vaunted approach? Doesn't it make you question whether or not his goal is one to actually achieve success and build something sustainable and worthwhile, or simply to tear-down and impede upon effective growth and coalition building? So far the track record is not very good, to say the least. You may not admit it here on this board, but I know in your heart of hearts you know it is the truth.[/QUOTE]
What are "the real-world disastrous results of [Linder's] vaunted approach" you refer to, Texas Dissident?
I ask because I think VNN is a great site. It's hilarious and scathing. But, I'm deeply disappointed to say, I'm not aware of how VNN or any other pro-white anti-jew site or group has done anything in the "real world" to achieve any kind of "result" whether pro or con.
Based on what I've read, I'd say the basic political "approach" of VNN is pretty simple: 1) Name whites as a group with group interests. 2) Name jews as the conscious, organized enemy of these interests. 3) Do not allow the issue under consideration to be framed in jewish/liberal/anti-white terms. 4) Attack, do not defend. (Never lose sight of the fact that the jews and their mouthpieces are the sadistic, genocidal criminals and you are justly resisting their lies and tyranny).
VNN is also rife with slurs, but that seems more part of the site's personal "style" than its prescribed political approach. Examples in defense of this distinction: Linder rips on Buchanan for failing to act on each of the above 4 elements of what I see as the VNN approach, but not because he refuses to call blacks blue gums or jews sheenies. The photo I've seen and accounts I've read of Linder at a public presentation show him looking and sounding extremely professional. Linder's great esteem for and constant praise of Kevin MacDonald is further evidence that the slurs and various forms of rhetorical hyperbole are not VNN political prerequisites. MacDonald is as slur-free, professional, and generally respectful and respectable as Buchanan, but MacDonald passes VNN's four-fold test. MacDonald, therefore, could be said to embody VNN's approach but not its style. MacDonald has not conjured any real-world "disasterous results."
So I guess I have two questions: 1) As asked above, what are "the real-world disastrous results of [Linder's] vaunted approach" you refer to, Texas Dissident? 2) Who specifically besides MacDonald is implementing VNN's approach, and are the "disastrous results" they achieve due to the approach per se or something else (e.g., Duke satisfies VNN's 4 elements but is instantly discredited for his Klan leadership.)
These are serious questions for me as I, like so many others coming to grips with America's predicament, am trying to make heads or tails of the situation and figure out the most constructive ways to act.
CR
2003-11-27 21:01 | User Profile
Number 4 and Kevin MacDonald, is reality........
2003-11-27 21:17 | User Profile
I also admire VNN and Linder greatly. There are new stories every day, on everything from the unemployment situation to world finance to music to you-name-it. There's news you won't get anywhere else in this country because we're so censored. Anyone hear anything about Switzerland's Nationalist party winning their elections largest majority lately? Not in the US you won't! And yet this is routine news everywhere outside the US. VNN is entertaining, inspiring, maddening, and a very good news source in censored AmeriKwa all rolled into one!
This is a different flavor of forum, not a place for Razor cartoons for instance, but we should certainly value VNN and recognize that VNN may be what brought many of us here and "enlisted" us in the fight.
2003-11-28 07:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Smedley Butler]Number 4 and Kevin MacDonald, is reality........[/QUOTE]
I don't understand what this means. ???
2003-12-01 04:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell]I don't understand what this means. ???[/QUOTE]
I hope some more folks will see and comment on this after the holidays.
2003-12-01 05:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell] So I guess I have two questions: 1) As asked above, what are "the real-world disastrous results of [Linder's] vaunted approach" you refer to, Texas Dissident? 2) Who specifically besides MacDonald is implementing VNN's approach, and are the "disastrous results" they achieve due to the approach per se or something else (e.g., Duke satisfies VNN's 4 elements but is instantly discredited for his Klan leadership.)[/QUOTE] That's a thoughtful post. I'm not aware of any disastrous results in the real world, but something that goes beyond a matter of style would be Linder's occasional references to killing Jews. Is that part of the "approach"?
I have no quarrel with any of the 4 points you listed, except that the use of "conscious" in point 2 is definitely superfluous and in many cases inaccurate.
2003-12-01 08:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell]Linder's great esteem for and constant praise of Kevin MacDonald is further evidence that the slurs and various forms of rhetorical hyperbole are not VNN political prerequisites. MacDonald is as slur-free, professional, and generally respectful and respectable as Buchanan, but MacDonald passes VNN's four-fold test. MacDonald, therefore, could be said to embody VNN's approach but not its style. MacDonald has not conjured any real-world "disasterous results."
So I guess I have two questions: 1) As asked above, what are "the real-world disastrous results of [Linder's] vaunted approach" you refer to, Texas Dissident? 2) Who specifically besides MacDonald is implementing VNN's approach, and are the "disastrous results" they achieve due to the approach per se or something else (e.g., Duke satisfies VNN's 4 elements but is instantly discredited for his Klan leadership.) [/QUOTE] Firstly, I do not closely study exactly what Linder says everyday. But his approach may be self-evidently assumed to be the same as with all National Socialists. That is that unquestioning loyalty to National Socialist principles is required first and foremost, and anyone who questions this view is basically a traitor to the movement. That is why we call them totalitarians.
Do not be confused by Linder's seeming effusive praise of MacDonald. MacDonald is praiseworthy because he is a political philosopher, and can be praised freely in the abstract sense, just like Nietzsche, or Junger, or the lyrics of White Power bands, or the works of Wagner, etc, can be, as they just represent poetry or literary verbiage without any real political authority.
The instant these writers venture into statements with real political significance they go from being absolute friend to absolute enemy. We can see that even with Triskelion in his remarks on MacDonald. When I showed him something MacDonald said on the Third Reich that wasn't sufficiently complimentary Triskelion basically said MacDonald (regarding the Third Reich) was an idiot who didn't know what he was talking about. And Triskelion is a very moderate and reasoned National Socialist compared to Linder.
My take on Linder praising MacDonald is that it is meaningless. I doubt Linder really understands MacDonald, and to the extent he does understand him I'd put forth his praise contains a large amount of deception.
Praising MacDonald may be good PR, but its not good NS politics. We'd find this out if Linder ever obtained more power than that of what is basically an internet blogger.
2003-12-01 08:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell]I hope some more folks will see and comment on this after the holidays.[/QUOTE] What does it mean.. Read the "Culture Critique" by Kevin MacDonald, or go to his site.. Number four could mean many things to many different people.. I see it like this, if you want the right for all public jobs to be filled by the most qualified, and you are called a racist, that should be turned around with a reply, that they are vengeful, hateful, and supremecist, as such a person believes in hiring people based on RACE, and "not merit".. see ex-asst: sec.of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts article on how this illegal system started hiring all the hiring discrimination for the last 38 years. At A cost that is un-told.. Read it at [url]www.vdare.com[/url] in the archive at 8-06-02 for Mr. Robert's article which is filled with FACTS that would floor any intelligent person, because all of it was done with out color of law, or due process, and no authourity other than huffing and puffing...
2003-12-01 16:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Firstly, I do not closely study exactly what Linder says everyday. But his approach may be self-evidently assumed to be the same as with all National Socialists. That is that unquestioning loyalty to National Socialist principles is required first and foremost, and anyone who questions this view is basically a traitor to the movement. [/QUOTE] Insistence on loyalty to national socialist principles? I don't see that at all. In fact, Linder doesn't even come across as a national socialist.
I suppose what you're getting at is his insistence that no one pull his punches. That may be productive or counterproductive, but it's not national socialism.
2003-12-01 16:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mwdallas]Insistence on loyalty to national socialist principles? I don't see that at all. In fact, Linder doesn't even come across as a national socialist.
I suppose what you're getting at is his insistence that no one pull his punches. That may be productive or counterproductive, but it's not national socialism.[/QUOTE]As far as I know that's not what anyone else who's studied him thinks.
To the extent that his positions have any coherent meaning and point and aren't just ranting, I don't see how they are anything else but National Socialism. And to the extent they aren't possessed of any coherent meaning, Tex's criticism of Linderism as destructive weigh even heavier.
It is an interesting critique though. Maybe it puts the critique of Triskelion on Linder in a somewhat different light - to some extent Linder is criticized not because he is too doctrinaire, but because he is not ideologically pure NS enough. But I really don't have time to get involved in either the fine points of Triskelionism or Linderism, so I'll just have to stop with this general observation that this could be a possibility.
2003-12-01 18:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Do not be confused by Linder's seeming effusive praise of MacDonald. MacDonald is praiseworthy because he is a political philosopher, and can be praised freely in the abstract sense, just like Nietzsche, or Junger, or the lyrics of White Power bands, or the works of Wagner, etc, can be, as they just represent poetry or literary verbiage without any real political authority.
You dissemble, of course. MacDonald is an evolutionary psychologist, Linderââ¬â¢s praise was contingent upon MacDonaldââ¬â¢s "naming the Jew," and MacDonaldââ¬â¢s "political authority" has nothing whatsoever to do with Chest Rockwellââ¬â¢s point.
My take on Linder praising MacDonald is that it is meaningless. I doubt Linder really understands MacDonald, and to the extent he does understand him I'd put forth his praise contains a large amount of deception.
Deception? Look in the mirror, Okie.
I think Linder understands MacDonald at least as well as you do:
"Up at dawn, nice chorrizo for road, feeds taken care of. Mountains beautiful but winding slow. Get lost. Start cursing. Pay a bum a buck for directions. Hit five, head south. Gordon Biersch in Laguna Hills. Cool, dark yuppie place, pretty waitresses, older jewish type walking about as if he owns it. Microbrewery, it's. Gordon and Biersch are two sirnames waitress informs. Read [I]Culture of Critique[/I], wait for author. Drink Hefe-Weizen and flip pages. What kind of asshole reads in bar? Me glumly realize. Says he: [I] I believe that in the United States we are presently heading down a volatile path -- a path that leads to ethnic warfare and to the development of collectivist, authoritarian, and racialist enclaves.[/I] Got that right, I think, look up. Attractive girl, blue-eyed blond. Fat arms for California, beauty by Midwestern standards. Frank gaze. I wonder if she is an actress, or a failed fat one. The physical difference is readily apparent in Californians versus midwesterners, and if I hadn't gone to school out here would have been surprised. Lunch, talk. Tall, slender guy from Wisconsin, late fifties, ex-radical, taught nigs in Jamaica, came to see light about coloreds. In spite of Scottish sirname is 3/4 German, mother sirnamed "Herb." Says names know score about Jews, won't broach it publicly. What's the solution? I don't know. Kill 'em all? See how he'd react. Twists face in wince. That wouldn't be very polite. Maybe we should deny them committee appointments. Doesn't seem like anyone knows what we do. Working on new preface, take a stronger line; working on abridged version. Discuss Pierce a bit, the movement. MacDonald has the caginess, wariness of the typical academic, but hard where it counts, for an academic that's on the page: [I]Multicultural societies with their consequent fragmentation and chronic ethnic tension are unlikely to meet Jewish needs in the long run even if they do ultimately subvert the demographic and cultural dominance of the peoples of European origin in lands where they have been dominant. This in turn suggests a fundamental and irresolvable friction between Judaism and prototypical Western political and social structure[/I]. The "incompatibility" of Judaism and Western culture." - Western Swing, by Alex Linder
2003-12-01 19:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell]So I guess I have two questions: 1) As asked above, what are "the real-world disastrous results of [Linder's] vaunted approach" you refer to, Texas Dissident? 2) Who specifically besides MacDonald is implementing VNN's approach, and are the "disastrous results" they achieve due to the approach per se or something else (e.g., Duke satisfies VNN's 4 elements but is instantly discredited for his Klan leadership.)
These are serious questions for me as I, like so many others coming to grips with America's predicament, am trying to make heads or tails of the situation and figure out the most constructive ways to act.
CR[/QUOTE]
First thing Chest, welcome to the board and thanks for the questions.
With regards to #1, I was specifically referencing the disaster surrounding the Linder/Bill White attack upon the NA. Some of Linder's comments during that episode can be found [url=http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=8489&page=2&pp=20]here[/url]. Following that was the Linder/White divorce where everything over there got severely discredited wth bad decisions all around. Of course one can take all that with a grain of salt realizing that I am sympathetic to Mr. Strom, not because I agree with his politics or ideology, but rather because he has never publicly attacked me or this board.
As for #2, I don't see where MacDonald is implementing any 'approach', much less Linder's. MacDonald is a social scientist and all that I've read of him relates to the research he has done on ethnic groups and their self-interest as such. In a generic manner, he has made recommendations how to counter jewish interests, but I don't really read any concrete political platforms that are developed by him in his published works. Maybe there are though and I just haven't read it. If so, please correct me.
When I state 'disastrous results' I am speaking of an underlying political approach that is negative and not positive. Nihilism, which is most definitely Linder's philosophy, is a dead-end path that will only lead to disaster and failure for whites. It's just not enough to only seek to tear down for the sake of destruction. One must have something positive and constructive to offer folks to be effective over the long-term. It's basic human nature to want to join up with a movement or organization that is positive in its approach and offers an agenda that is constructive, building on and having as its foundation the good results of what came before it. Unfortunately, surveying the landscape I don't see any real political organization that I would give my endorsement to, so maybe the most practical advice I could give now would be trying to be an effective influence within your immediate sphere of family and community.
2003-12-01 19:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=t_electric]You dissemble, of course. MacDonald is an evolutionary psychologist, Linderââ¬â¢s praise was contingent upon MacDonaldââ¬â¢s "naming the Jew," and MacDonaldââ¬â¢s "political authority" has nothing whatsoever to do with Chest Rockwellââ¬â¢s point.
Deception? Look in the mirror, Okie.
I think Linder understands MacDonald at least as well as you do:
Working on new preface, take a stronger line; working on abridged version. Discuss Pierce a bit, the movement. MacDonald has the caginess, wariness of the typical academic, but hard where it counts, for an academic that's on the page: .....The "incompatibility" of Judaism and Western culture." - Western Swing, by Alex Linder[/QUOTE]
Linder passes on a chance to attack MacDonald, but not everyone does.
[quote=triskelion][quote=okiereddust]We would have to look at what he said in detail and carefully to be sure exactly what he said. But to go to calling the greatest writer that has ever hit American WN at least in recent memory "grossly dishonest and moronic" and one you've personally gone to jail for (to your great credit) means I think you've had a long day.ââ¬Â
It is grossly dishonest and moronic to say that the NSDAP regime is a mirror image jewry. MacDonald is an excellent authority on evolutionary psychology with regards to jewry in the Occidental world. He is not an expert on the Third Reich, the ideology of the regime or any sort of NR thinking or history
[url]http://forums.originaldissent.com/showpost.php?p=65387&postcount=109[/url]
See what Trisk thinks about MacDonald when push comes to shove. And Trisk is the saint of rationality and moderation compared to Linder - in fact he got so mad at my not sufficiently distinguishing himself from Linder that he left the forum.
Wake up and smell the coffee. Linder likes a few things MacDonald says for now, so he puts up with him. This no more makes him a real friend to MacDonald than it makes National Socialists Christians for occasionally citing approvingly bible versesthat attack the jews.
2003-12-01 20:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Linder passes on a chance to attack MacDonald, but not everyone does.
There was no chance to pass. MacDonald met Linder's criteria for "naming the Jew."
[I]See what Trisk thinks about MacDonald when push comes to shove. And Trisk is the saint of rationality and moderation compared to Linder - in fact he got so mad at my not sufficiently distinguishing himself from Linder that he left the forum.[/I]
MacDonald is not an authority on the Third Reich. His equating National Socialism to Jewry is a 'career sustainingââ¬â¢ move allowing him to plausibly deny the inevitable "naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews" accusation. Understandably, this comparison offends the honorable, self-employed Triskelion.
[I]Wake up and smell the coffee. Linder likes a few things MacDonald says for now, so he puts up with him.[/I]
This is speculation, of course.
2003-12-01 22:10 | User Profile
Okie it seems is intent on attacking Triskelion at every opportunity and lying constantly about everyone that disagrees with him. I have been reading VNN for years while Okie is as dishonest about VNN as he is about my long term comrade. Linder has never claimed to be a National Socialist of any form and in fact has economic and social beliefs far closer to a libertine then to Hitler or any NS figure I know of. Okie simply lies by claiming the contrary with no support and then falsely say all NS people are like him.
As to Triskelion, he never said MacDonald was an idiot (more lies from Okie) but he did say that MacDonald was no expert on the Third Reich, National Socialism of any sort and he doesnââ¬â¢t care about his view of those things not in his expertise. He did say that to It is grossly dishonest and moronic to say that the NSDAP regime is a mirror image jewry. To say that is the same as calling MacDonald a idiot is a perfect example of just how dishonorable Okie is. I know for a fact that Triskelion has spoken highly of MacDonald, they write each other and that he went to jail for defending him. For Okie to act this way in public is contemptible.
I have talked with Triskelion a great deal about what he thinks of VNN and Linder and I know that Okie prefers to lie about that rather then address it. His complaints of Linder have nothing to do with ideological purity but with the style of VNN, Linderââ¬â¢s near total disregard for real world politics and failure such produces. Note that his differences have not stopped him from helping VNN and that he has been far more polite to Linder then Okie is to him. Both Triskelion and I spend a great deal of time helping those we not agree with for a cause that is greater then all of us yet Okie says Triskelion is doctrinaire which given his abuse means he doesnââ¬â¢t accept Okieââ¬â¢s undefendable positions. Expected is such slander from anyone that says ââ¬ÅBut I really don't have time to get involved in either the fine points of Triskelionism or Linderismââ¬Â which given he clearly lies about what both say is no different then saying ââ¬ÅIââ¬â¢m to intellectually lazy and corrupt to understand what others say so I just boldly lie and present what they say as a distorted vestige of beliefs I refuse to consider.ââ¬Â
Reading a few recent posts by Okie it is clear that he slanders and lies about NR activists with the same methods that the anti-European establishment does. In fact, during his last trial I heard the prosecutor use exactly the same methods to pervert what Triskelion stands for and some how it is more obscene to see such from someone that claims to be a conservative. After seeing so much slander against someone that has given so much to me, saved my wife from rape and sacrificed so much for his beliefs I simply canââ¬â¢t post here in good conscience. Being associated with such a forum blackens me so I will leave here and not read such poison as seen here again and I will tell everyone that this is no place for real NR activists of any sort.
2003-12-01 22:33 | User Profile
It seems as if Okie is the person who is not on the same page as the rest at OD. Julius Streicher testified at Nuremburg that Nazism did indeed borrow MANY things from the world's oldest group of bigots -- Jews.
I know that Okie -- and the so-called God Squad at OD -- dislikes us Linderites, but let him and others be more fair about the origins of Nazi ideology. KMacD has it right.
2003-12-01 22:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=OlafLynckner]Being associated with such a forum blackens me so I will leave here and not read such poison as seen here again and I will tell everyone that this is no place for real NR activists of any sort.[/QUOTE] Olaflynckner, I agree with your post... Please ponder that every forum that has an opinion that differ's from the controlled media is monitored, and most likely has trolls of every writing style wandering through it. Many people in the U.S. still believe the Japanese attacked U.S. with out provocation, and have almost 0 knowledge that 90% of white U.S. men where totally against the War Europe and wanted no part of Stalin etc., as of Dec. 1, 1941, along with our Rep's too. It is that treason that was used against U.S. that is at play today.. The enemy of U.S. has Millions of dollars that are tax free and they train our police forces too. I hope you understand my point.. I hope you don't leave this forum as that is the goal of certain forces.. I further say that any one who has time and ability to post should always do so, while we can, as every avenue to post is important to us all. So, as I do not blame you for being angry, I say kept checking back and post once and while. Remember there are vistors' and the posts of counter views and revelations about trolls or liar's are of the most value...
2003-12-01 22:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=OlafLynckner]Being associated with such a forum blackens me so I will leave here and not read such poison as seen here again and I will tell everyone that this is no place for real NR activists of any sort.[/QUOTE]
Give us a break, Olaf, and don't be a sissy. I've had every one of my cherished beliefs ridiculed and called every name you can think of here on this board (which in this case Okie did not do), yet I keep it going and plugging away.
I hope all Euros aren't so delicate as the majority we seem to attract here on this board.
2003-12-01 23:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]It seems as if Okie is the person who is not on the same page as the rest at OD. KMacD has it right.[/QUOTE]
That was Okie's point, Franco.
2003-12-01 23:41 | User Profile
Oh.... oops. Sorry, Okie. My mistake...
2003-12-02 04:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Oh.... oops. Sorry, Okie. My mistake...[/QUOTE]For clarification, my point was that MacD was right. So if that's you're point, then you're on the same page with me.
Hope that doesn't blacken your reputation. ;)
2003-12-02 04:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=OlafLynckner]Being associated with such a forum blackens me so I will leave here and not read such poison as seen here again and I will tell everyone that this is no place for real NR activists of any sort.[/QUOTE]Olaf, we hardly knew ye, except that you have an awfully thin skin. Guess we'll never know now if not knowing you was good or bad.
2003-12-02 07:44 | User Profile
Several people have said to me that I should not leave just because Okie acts like scum. I should not write in a moment of anger like I did last time and give the notion that the other people here are like him. I will post from time but simply avoid those that prove themselves to be enemies of that which I stand for.
"Olaf, we hardly knew ye, except that you have an awfully thin skin. Guess we'll never know now if not knowing you was good or bad." Some one hiding behind a screen name that admits they don't know me calls me a coward because I am sickened by his behavior to the point of leaving in a burst of anger. That he says such things combined with his hateful treatment of Triskelion tells me everything I need to know about Okie.
2003-12-02 15:36 | User Profile
Originally Posted by mwdallas Insistence on loyalty to national socialist principles? I don't see that at all. In fact, Linder doesn't even come across as a national socialist.
As far as I know that's not what anyone else who's studied him thinks. [/QUOTE] How about studying him yourself?
He's an antisemite, but I've never seen him say anything that would suggest he's a national socialist. In fact, [I]your[/I] political leanings, from what I know of them (statism, protectionism, etc.) bear a closer resemblance to national socialism than do Linder's.
2003-12-02 16:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mwdallas]How about studying him yourself?
He's an antisemite, but I've never seen him say anything that would suggest he's a national socialist. In fact, [I]your[/I] political leanings, from what I know of them (statism, protectionism, etc.) bear a closer resemblance to national socialism than do Linder's.[/QUOTE]Give me a break. The man started his WN public life as a National Alliance member, from whence formed VNN. Not for any ideological reasons, just for organizational ones. And it seems he stilll retained some role in the NA, might still retain some now I think.
2003-12-02 16:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mwdallas]He's (Linder) an antisemite, but I've never seen him say anything that would suggest he's a national socialist. In fact, [I]your[/I] political leanings, from what I know of them (statism, protectionism, etc.) bear a closer resemblance to national socialism than do Linder's.[/QUOTE]
I disagree, mwd. From his attacks on the leadership style of the NA to his non-stop effusing praise for Hitler and Nazis in general, coupled with the totalitarian streak, definitely put him in the national socialist camp. I think Okie is right on this one.
2003-12-02 18:09 | User Profile
Stop. Please, stop!
MacDonald is a social scientist; Linder is a social satirist. Some of their ideas overlap/intersect but they're working two different streets, and NOT two sides of the same street.
They have their supporters (and detractors, too) but - things being what they are - they're going to inevitably attract a certain percentage of obsessed fan-boys as well. It's an inevitable side-effect of the Cult of Celebrity and to blame either for the excesses of their most disturbed and/or excitable camp-followers is ludicrous. (Of course, given the sober tone of most of whayt K-Mac publishes, he's going to dowse fewer nuts out of the ground.)
Okie is simply the anti-Franco. One beats a strawberry roan to death, the other flogs a bay.
2003-12-03 04:36 | User Profile
Il Ragno:
Duhhhh...what dat mean...?
2003-12-03 05:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Okie is simply the anti-Franco. One beats a strawberry roan to death, the other flogs a bay.[/QUOTE]
They only thing I ever beat on is a few jackasses ;)
2003-12-03 11:04 | User Profile
Yeah, you're fighting a never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American Way.
Well, don't look now, Superman, but Lois Lane's dating a jig behind your back, Perry White changed his name from Weiss, the DAILY PLANET's running a series on The New Anti-Semitism....and a thoroughly disgusted Jimmy Olsen's registered on the VNN Forum.
2003-12-03 15:20 | User Profile
No reason party and PAC are opposed. Both could be done. Infiltration is fine, but I prefer overt, loud, obnoxious, repetitive, public, and in-your-face. I'd rather send my money to someone naming the jews and explaining the problem than to Pat Buchanan and hoping he was speaking in code. And then feeling like a used fool when he picked a nigger running mate. Fenris says something about a landslide -- well, jeezuz, if there ever was a cause for a political revolution, this is it, huh? America doesnt need a third party, it needs a second party. And that party must be White. Hell, call it the Hate Party. I'd sign up in a minute. What I want, and believe many others want, is people saying what they read on VNN in public. Giles did a very good job in the speech I heard. But I want something even more inflammatory. Utterly aggressive, unashamed, unembarrassed, unforgiving, no-quarter -- an Al Sharpton for White people. I don't want people naming the jew as though it were some inevitable duty, like eating your vegetables, but a glorious call to reclaim mastery over the land our people built. We should directly appeal to the heroic in people. Our reasons are secondary. We must go after the young, and inspire them to join our cause. Because it is hard. Because it is noble. Because it is right. If we try to figure out what people want and give it to them, we're lost. That's just like appealing to women. What we need to do is lead. Say here's where we're going. Join us. We know going in we will be smeared by jews regardless of our wording or crudeness or genteelness. The System defines our views as illegitimate, and the media are part of the System. Anybody who thinks he can slick this is a fool. That doesn't mean one should necessarily be crude -- crudeness is a gift that doesn't light on everybody, after all -- but it does mean one should go for the marrow: pull people with emotions. Emotions are stronger than reason. It so happens that reason is in our corner, and 1001 White sites document our case, but our appeal must be instinctive: 1) something is deeply wrong with the country; 2) we heroic Whites are going to reclaim our legacy. JOIN US. We need to show the people something "ganz anders," something radically new that blows their minds. We need to quit worrying about our hair and makeup on camera, and worry about getting behind the yid and pulling the plug, or blowing up 30 Rock, so to speak. As the Italians say, eating makes appetite, and the people don't know they're hungry because no one is feeding them. We're right. We don't need to quibble, we need to drive forward as powerfully as possible. Right now we need an organization. I don't know the form. I have asked lawyers regarding PACs and parties, but I have no information back yet.
The problem we have at the moment is that we are divided into two camps. The respectables, who think we can nice our way out by copying the minorities with their civil rights groups, and the radicals, who are, to too great an extent, comparatively resourceless working class folks or out-and-out lumpenbums. The former will not publicly associate with the latter, and until they give up the illusion that the jews will let them climb the latter they set out for black destroyers, we'll continue in the same direction. What must happen is some kind of crystallization. I've done that intellectually as best I can. But now it needs to become real. We need lots of lawyers and some money to take the next step: build an organization that can fight legally and politically. An organization with an overtly military arm that can in time put physical pressure on our jewish oppressors. The jews need to fear us physically. That is when the tide will turn in our favor. They call me a nazi, but I'm not. I believe that the individual is important, but the context, the community, is more important. And anything that threatens the hive is more important than the individual ant. We need a dictatorship that can handle our racial problems, and no need to be ashamed to declare this. Not a totalitarian autocrat, but a dictator who does not allow the race to be destroyed because some businessman makes money that way. Beneath that, I'm an American: I like the freedoms affirmed in the constitution: a country where you MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. But not a country where business is what the country's all about. Economically we should follow a policy of scourging the NWO elite selling out the country, and on the flip side, we should push a very low flat tax for funding national government. People would prefer a safe, freeish America in which they can live out of their neighbor's pocket. But second best is a safe, freeish America where the tax rates are low enough they can keep the money they make, and improve their physical circumstances. So our party should push repeal of White slavery: physical, economic, and moral.
Hate Party will not allow:
black and brown criminals to destroy our people, rape our women.
burrocrats to force us to work half our hours to line their pockets.
jews to portray the descendants of the white males who built America as evil bad guys.
these should be pushed politically. and at the same time, we need some men with military background and brains to organize men into squads capable of dealing retribution to our enemies -- violent colored predators, the jews who loosed them on us, and the white race traitors who accede in this nasty business because it feathers their nest.
I agree that infiltration is not likely to work. Better to build national prominence and real power, which will have the effect of creating infiltrators as people already in positions of power (cops, lawyers, burocrats, etc.) come to accept our views. We Aryans are generally not jewish enough to pull off jewish tactics. We lack the money and media, too.
I disagree with the idea we need value-neutral language. That's throwing away our big weapon: the absolutely outrageous betrayal of our race by white traitors and the jews who suborned them. Sam Adams didn't use value neutral language. He encouraged Americans to hate and throw off the British oppressor. He described revolution as lighting brushfires in men's minds. This is what we must do in White minds, light them on fire against the guilty yid. I disagree that facts alone will win out. What will bring people over is the gut instinct that we mean what we say.
There's a great focus in our jew-produced culture on what is "real." People will do anything to affect it. We are real. That is our unique selling point. We offer an honest-to-God real alternative to the System. We offer something hard and true and worthy of ultimate dedication -- beating-heart life, not just money and time.
People are cynical because the jews have taught them that nothing is real, everything is presentation, manipulation, and spin. Not just obvious things like the dessicated jew "Kerry" cool-guying it onto Leno on his moped, but mass sporting events are manipulated through refereeing just the way our border invasion is allowed, no matter the rules or democratic desires of the people.
But people want to believe. Yes, they want to be pandered to, but they also want the shit kicked out of them. They are women. You can inspire them like JFK, or browbeat them like RFK, and they like it. They respond. This is what we need. Carrot and stick. Appeal to their glory and honor. We say:
1) Come with me, young white man, and take back the country.
2) What kind of man are you, who allows a fifty-year-old shitskin convicted felon to rape and murder a young white girl?
Goad their cowardice, tweak their honor -- above all, GET THEM MOVING.
Emotion is where it is at, completely. As long as it is backed up by professional organization. That is where the lawyers and the administrators come in. I ASSUME the heroic working-class guts. I know these guys will respond to the call. But the goddam middle-class brains people have to be there to lead them. Getting these people in position has been the most difficult task over the last three years. It is a good sign that increasing numbers of Polignanos begin to appear. It is time indeed to make this real. News and forums and pretty words are necessary, and we need many more, but we need to begin the serious organizing now.
Day to day, we must work to erode whatever credibility the Republicans have. Hard to understand how they have any, given the last fifty years, but they still do, mostly because the people who vote for them are genetically limited to following Authority, at least to a very high threshhold of pain. We must relentlessly present ourselves as the only legitimate option. But to do that we need more than words, we need an overtly political party. Whether or not it wins elections.
I'm against any claim that we are where we are because we have failed to manipulate the system properly. Our failing is not mechanical. And I say that as one with no predisposition to whine and blame others, but because it is objective fact. Our failure is what the system is designed to produce. The System is set up to crush any opposition to the jewish agenda. Duke is the perfect example. The "two" parties shed the mask to reveal their single ugly face as the party of jew-tooled egalitarianism. The media have shown by their actions how to treat them. Spit at them. No word you use, no suit you don, no hairstyle will make them treat you fairly.
Abuse the jew media. Don't talk to them unless you get something of value in return. The media will seldom quote you accurately. They will blunt any point you make. They will quote you out of context if that helps. They are only looking for filler to pour in their mold. Don't help them! Everytime you talk to these clowns, you're showing them respect. If they want to make money off you, then they can pay you for the privilege. Otherwise, who needs them. To claim the media are run by jews and then work with them for free -- it doesn't back up what you're saying.
We really are in the position of the Palestinians. Imagine a Palestinian thinking he can work within the jewish system. We just don't realize our position yet. The jews and their tools have shown by their actions how they deserve to be treated. Well, treat them that way.
Someone says Whites don't have interests. If they're attacked for being White, then they certainly do, whether that attack is through "affirmation action" or by coloreds on the street. Forgetting that whites have interests -- something no one doubted when it was us and the redskin savages -- and acceding in jewish moralizing against White identification today will only reinforce our third-class status.
All this is pealed from VNN's generally shitty forum but belongs, especially for this thread.
2003-12-03 16:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell]What we need to do is lead. Say here's where we're going. Join us.[/QUOTE] A solid point so Iââ¬â¢ll repeat it here for you in bold.
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell]The problem we have at the moment is that we are divided into two camps. The respectables, who think we can nice our way out by copying the minorities with their civil rights groups, and the radicals, who are, to too great an extent, comparatively resourceless working class folks or out-and-out lumpenbums. [/QUOTE] The problem with the radical wing, as it stands, is that all too many ââ¬Ëradicalsââ¬â¢ are in fact dysfunctionals. However, they are nothing that a prerequisite of hard work wouldnââ¬â¢t cull. Work will set us free ;)
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell]All this is pealed from VNN's generally shitty forum but belongs, especially for this thread.[/QUOTE] It is of surprising value, considering its source forum. The self-discipline deficit, and the fact ââ¬Åcrudeness is a gift that doesn't light on everybodyââ¬Â, sunk that boat on its maiden voyage.
2003-12-03 20:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Yeah, you're fighting a never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American Way.
And what's wrong with that, IR? Truth does exist, justice will one day be served and I'm an American who believes I know the right Way. There's more shame in not fighting than in losing and I hope Okie thinks the same way.
Well, don't look now, Superman, but Lois Lane's dating a jig behind your back, Perry White changed his name from Weiss, the DAILY PLANET's running a series on The New Anti-Semitism....and a thoroughly disgusted Jimmy Olsen's registered on the VNN Forum.[/QUOTE]
In times of instability and uncertainty the collective dark side will always gain its converts, but that doesn't mean those in the right should just give up. Where would we be now if our heroes of the past did that? I'm certain that this is not what you are suggesting.
2003-12-03 21:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell]The problem we have at the moment is that we are divided into two camps. The respectables, who think we can nice our way out by copying the minorities with their civil rights groups, and the radicals, who are, to too great an extent, comparatively resourceless working class folks or out-and-out lumpenbums. The former will not publicly associate with the latter...[/QUOTE]
There are some kernels of truth in the excerpts you quote, Chest, but I think the author spends an inordinate amount of words building up some straw men to strengthen his particular appeal. In reality there are more like three or four camps, the most obvious one he fails to mention are the realists. Those who know the score, but are grounded well-enough in reality to look for solutions that have some practical and realistic expectation to effect change. Those who aspire to an ecumenical approach where assets in specific venues can try to succeed without constant sniping from back-bench purists of some sort or another. I'm very wary of those who spend all their time harping on sympathetic fellow-travelers because they don't completely toe some imagined ideological line. Build-up wherever you can and don't just tear-down. That's critical in my opinion.
2003-12-03 22:47 | User Profile
Great post Chest. Particularly this point here:
[QUOTE=Chest Rockwell]We need lots of lawyers and some money to take the next step: build an organization that can fight legally and politically. [/QUOTE]
That is exactly what we need. I wrote a post to Stormfront and VNN recently where I said that in order to draw the more talented and moneyed Whites, we are going to have to tone down the calls for "Racial Holy War" and keep the militant types in line. Inflaming them too much too early in the game is a recipe for disaster.
Tex, excellent point about keeping the idealogical purists in line. I'm trying to reform myself in that respect and help others to do the same.
We've got to build bridges instead of tearing them down.
2003-12-04 07:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Yeah, you're fighting a never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American Way.
Well, don't look now, Superman, but Lois Lane's dating a jig behind your back, Perry White changed his name from Weiss, the DAILY PLANET's running a series on The New Anti-Semitism....and a thoroughly disgusted Jimmy Olsen's registered on the VNN Forum.[/QUOTE]Good little bit of rhetorical work, Raggy. You sound like you're auditioning for a quote from Linder.
The only thing a little amiss in your metaphor, I'd think you'd realize, is that you Nietzschien VNNers are the people putting all their confidence in Superman. Now if all Superman's buddies at Daily Planet are going to the dogs, or more properly speaking, the Last Men, what exactly at VNN is going to be that much different and make all of them into the Supermen?
(NeoNietzsche having taken a hiatus from the forum, you're going top have to answer that on your own. ;)