← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Mithras
Thread ID: 10921 | Posts: 55 | Started: 2003-11-04
2003-11-04 17:11 | User Profile
Boulder, CO - At its October 25, 2003 National Committee meeting, the America First Party passed a resolution calling for the impeachment and removal from office of President Bush for taking our Nation to war without proper constitutional authority. This resolution is in keeping with ones passed at the 2002 Convention and in April of this year.
National Chairman John Francis described the party's action: "Unlike Republicans and Democrats, the America First Party believes that the Constitution is the foundation of freedom and good government which we hold so dear. That same Constitution declares that only Congress -- not the President -- may declare war. When President Bush violated his oath of office, and started his war in Iraq, he shredded our Constitution, he trampled upon the very basis of our liberty. The President's betrayal of fundamental principles of American government renders him unfit to hold the office to which he was elected."
The America First Party opposes the war in Iraq, because the regime of Saddam Hussein, brutal and evil though it was, nevertheless did not threaten the people of the United States or their interests.
National Press Secretary Romelle Winters added, "With our own borders unsecured, our United States Armed Forces continue to die policing the streets of Iraq. It is now clear the President's judgment ignores the Constitution, the best interests of our Nation, and the best interests of our troops. It is time to follow President Washington's advice to stay out of the affairs of other nations unless our Nation is threatened. It is time for Congress to do its duty."
The Resolution states in part: "We demand that no actions be taken that would endanger the lives and well being of our troops currently involved in combat; we demand that Congress refuse to fund preemptive wars of colonial conquest; we demand that our government refocus its national security efforts on securing our ports and our borders to prevent future terrorist attacks; and we demand that Congress immediately impeach the President and remove him from office for waging war without constitutional authority."
The entire text of the Resolution Calling for Impeachment of the President is attached to this release, and may also be read on the America First Party web site at "http://americafirstparty.org/impeach.html".
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR IMPEACHMENT OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
Whereas, The America First National Committee has adjudged the War Against Iraq to be an unnecessary, improper, illegal, unconstitutional, and immoral misuse of the power and might of the United States Armed Forces and the brave men and women who have volunteered to serve as protectors and defenders of the United States of America and her people; and,
Whereas, The America First National Committee has adjudged the War Against Iraq sets a dangerous precedent for our nation that must be resisted and never allowed to happen again; and,
Whereas, It is only through assuring that the brave fighting men and women of the United States Armed Forces are not misused that we can best support their mission to protect and defend the United States of America;
Now Therefore Be It Resolved by the America First National Committee on this 25th day of October, in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Three:
That We demand that no actions be taken that would endanger the lives and well being of our troops currently involved in combat; and,
That We call upon the Joint Chiefs of Staff to refuse orders they know to be immoral and illegal as required by the Uniform Code of Military Justice; and,
That We demand that Congress refuse to fund preemptive wars of colonial conquest; and,
That We demand that our government refocus its national security efforts on securing our ports and our borders to prevent future terrorist attacks; and,
That We demand that Congress immediately impeach the President and remove him from office for waging war without constitutional authority; and,
That We pledge to work for the replacement of every member of Congress who aids, abets, or shields the President in these impeachable offenses.
Contacts: John Francis, National Chairman, 1-866-SOS-USA1, ext. 4 Romelle Winters, Press Secretary, 1-866-SOS-USA1, ext. 2
[url]http://www.americafirstparty.org/news/2003/PressRel2003_11_04.shtml[/url]
2003-11-04 17:22 | User Profile
Great news, I'll have to check out the AFP. If it nominates someone like Andrew Jackson for president, it may be the answer to America's problems.
-Z-
2003-11-04 18:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Zoroaster]Great news, I'll have to check out the AFP. If it nominates someone like Andrew Jackson for president, it may be the answer to America's problems.
-Z-[/QUOTE]
Zoro, can I assume you're joking?
[quote=Zoroaster]It appears the American First Party's first impluse is to make itself kosher, and Colonel Gritz is simply too much of an American to speak at its convention. The AFP is just another Buchanan Judas goat. Smart folks who put America first and back third-party movements wil take their support elsewhere.
([url=http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=8714]America First Party Purges Extremists[/url])
BTW I wish our search engine was a little more reliable as this and other good AFP threads don't seem to come up with a search.
In any event it appears that the AFP is adopting the classic tactics of a False Front organization. People really need to be warned about these people. There are a lot of desperate people around looking for someone to support that doesn't seem to be 100% kosher certified. I hate to see such people fall in with the like of Hey, Charles and Co.
2003-11-04 18:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]In any event it appears that the AFP is adopting the classic tactics of a False Front organization. People really need to be warned about these people. There are a lot of desperate people around looking for someone to support that doesn't seem to be 100% kosher certified. I hate to see such people fall in with the like of Hey, Charles and Co.[/QUOTE]
And you don't think the National Socialist Movement is a false front? Sure, let's break out the svastika and do a sieg heil--that'll get you votes. Mahathir once said that Muslims need to develop their brains to fight the existing order. I would extend the same to White Patriots.
2003-11-04 18:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]And you don't think the National Socialist Movement is a false front? Sure, let's break out the svastika and do a sieg heil--that'll get you votes. Mahathir once said that Muslims need to develop their brains to fight the existing order. I would extend the same to White Patriots.[/QUOTE]
So would I Mithras, and FW is hardly an advocate for National Socialists. However, I thought I read somewhere that Mississippi's Hey was taking payoffs from the ADL for information on AFP memberships.
2003-11-04 19:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]Zoro, can I assume you're joking?
BTW I wish our search engine was a little more reliable as this and other good AFP threads don't seem to come up with a search.
In any event it appears that the AFP is adopting the classic tactics of a False Front organization. People really need to be warned about these people. There are a lot of desperate people around looking for someone to support that doesn't seem to be 100% kosher certified. I hate to see such people fall in with the like of Hey, Charles and Co.[/QUOTE]
Apparently there has been some infighting at the AFP since I made the post you quoted. I'll keep your warning in mind, though, chances are I was on the mark the first time and you're right now.
America must suffer more, say, the Great Depression, military catastrophy, or both, before genuine political reform occurs.
-Z-
2003-11-04 19:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]So would I Mithras, and FW is hardly an advocate for National Socialists. However, I thought I read somewhere that Mississippi's Hey was taking payoffs from the ADL for information on AFP memberships.[/QUOTE]
With the exception of a handful of very secretive orders, every group and every party in the world is infiltrated by government agents or other sympathetic parties. So what if some idiot gets information on you. They're going to get it anyway. What we need to be concerned with is content. There is no other party in the US that even comes close to the policies of the AFP. That being considered, there is no alternative. Calling the AFP a false front without any proof whatsoever seems to be something a fed would say. Instead of spreading disinformation about patriotic parties we should be joining them and supporting them and promoting them. America is at rock bottom folks. It can't get any worse than the path it is now on, which is complete destruction.
2003-11-04 19:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Zoroaster]Apparently there has been some infighting at the AFP since I made the post you quoted. I'll keep your warning in mind, though, chances are I was on the mark the first time and you're right now.
America must suffer more, say, the Great Depression, military catastrophy, or both, before genuine political reform occurs.
-Z-[/QUOTE]
But there will be no reform. America will be destroyed, and all Whites will be massacred. That is the future if we don't build a reputable fighting force like the AFP now.
And that's another thing I'd like to point out. Since we aren't supporting these groups en masse the lack thereof makes it all the more easier for feds and disrupters to infiltrate and completely take them over.
Besides, extremists within moderate movements usually are feds. Look at the case of Germany's NPD.
2003-11-04 19:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Zoroaster]Apparently there has been some infighting at the AFP since I made the post you quoted. I'll keep your warning in mind, though, chances are I was on the mark the first time and you're right now.
America must suffer more, say, the Great Depression, military catastrophy, or both, before genuine political reform occurs.
-Z-[/QUOTE]
Actually the subject of thread you and I posted on was this infighting.
[quote=Texas Dissident]So would I Mithras, and FW is hardly an advocate for National Socialists. However, I thought I read somewhere that Mississippi's Hey was taking payoffs from the ADL for information on AFP memberships.
It might have been on the link [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=8659&hl=america%20first%20party&st=40]the America First Party, Pro or Con[/url]" which I link to off the America First Party Purges Extremists thread, however the link is broken, and there's something funny with the html on the America First Party Purges Extremists thread. Tex, is there some way we could get these links back on-line?
[quote=Mithras] With the exception of a handful of very secretive orders, every group and every party in the world is infiltrated by government agents or other sympathetic parties. So what if some idiot gets information on you. They're going to get it anyway. What we need to be concerned with is content. There is no other party in the US that even comes close to the policies of the AFP. That being considered, there is no alternative. Calling the AFP a false front without any proof whatsoever seems to be something a fed would say. Instead of spreading disinformation about patriotic parties we should be joining them and supporting them and promoting them.
There is all sorts of information in these threads. For someone so gung-ho about the AFP, you seem curiously indifferent to all these reports I would think any honest AFP supporter would find very disturbing. Anybody saying you should join an organization and there is no need to check it out thoroughly - that is the type of person you should be suspicious of. :ninja:
2003-11-04 20:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]There is all sorts of information in these threads. For someone so gung-ho about the AFP, you seem curiously indifferent to all these reports I would think any honest AFP supporter would find very disturbing. Anybody saying you should join an organization and there is no need to check it out thoroughly - that is the type of person you should be suspicious of. [/QUOTE]
The link you supplied goes nowhere, and I place no value in hearsay. Have you even read the policies of the AFP? Do you even know who you yourself are trashing without any proof whatsoever through this hearsay? And most of all, you provide no alternative. Do you understand what I am saying when I write:
[QUOTE]Since we aren't supporting these groups en masse the lack thereof makes it all the more easier for feds and disrupters to infiltrate and completely take them over.
Besides, extremists within moderate movements usually are feds. Look at the case of Germany's NPD.[/QUOTE]
The only downside to joining the AFP is that some crackpots in the ADL will get your name and address? It would take but an ounce of courage to sign up as a member. Is that too much to ask? Do you actually fear reprisals for joining a legitimate political party?
If the simple possibility that the ADL or the feds will get your home phone number if you join a party discourages you from participating in politics then [U]the Jews really have won[/U].
2003-11-04 20:14 | User Profile
Rebuilt link: [url=http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=7466]America First Party[/url]
2003-11-04 20:33 | User Profile
Here's another link to a drawn-out AFP thread:
[url=http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=8714]America First Party Purges 'Extremists'[/url]
2003-11-04 21:46 | User Profile
It's time for a little common sense about infiltrators, spies, false fronts and people that unconsciously promote them. The degree to which those things are a problem depends largely upon the way a group presents itself. As an example costume fetish groups like the NSM or SS Action Groups and ultra-extreme groups that have violent rhetoric like the WCOTC/AN/WAR and various Klan and CI groups are bound to attract psychopaths drawn to the associated imagery and the promise of mayhem. Naturally, law enforcement and anti white groups will heavily infiltrate those groups because it's easy to do and an excellent chance exists that people like Burford Furrow or Benjamin Smith circulate within those circles and seek support for doing the sort of things they wind up doing. Obviously those sort of groups are riddled from top to bottom with infiltrators, spies, false fronts and people that unconsciously promote them and are a complete waste of time and a detriment to anyone serious about any form of National Socialism or any kind of folkish renewal.
Groups that go to great lengths to refute "nazis" ( as defined by the establishment) and fail to address racial questions honestly (yet intelligently critque multi racialism unlike the groups mentioned above) while seeking establishment approval are also prime targets for infiltration. The reason is that groups like the ADL/SPLC/Hate Watch etc. now that such groups are an ideal way to promote a faux racialism open to jews and expressing a neutered opposition that will distract possibly productive people from considering possibly productive alternatives to the current order. In short, such groups are simply pressure valves at best and often false flag operations. Infiltrators in the groups mentioned above are there primarily to encourage infighting and criminal conduct to nullify what ever potential those groups might have for forming a viable activist cadre. By contrast, the approval craving faux racialist group is infiltrated primarily to effect the direction the group tales so as to make it non threatening to the establishment in terms of the ideas it promotes. The basic idea is to present the image to those upset about societal destruction that a fundamental rejection of multi-racialism or frankness about jewry equals the Hollywood nazism of the groups above.
The best material about false flag/faux racist phenomena is Oliver's articles about his history in the "patriotic movement" of the ââ¬Ë50s & ââ¬Ë60s and how the Birchers, the Minutemen, the Paul Revere Society, the National Review etc. became dominated by jews and the cowards that serve them. His book "America's Decline: The Education of a Conservative" is invaluable. Also, the Birdman has some good stuff on the subject on his site if you can wade through his boundless arrogance, libertarian flummery and love of moral decrepitude.
Often times, the people that start up faux racialist or populist groups are not attempting to create a false front per say. Rather, they are often attempting to make money and boost their egos. Oliver covers that sort of thing in great detail and others have described how the "militia movement" has a great deal of trouble with those sorts of charlatans as well. The AFP's current leadership definitely fall into that category but they are even worse in that they also do serve as an information clearing house to the ADL/SPLC. Some of the other threads here about them detail those matters quite well and I regret to say, from first hand knowledge, are accurate. The more benign form of an establishment endorsed "pressure valve" is AmRen which clearly does not only not endorse racial separatism and refuses to address the jewish question honestly which in and of itself makes it a dead end organizationally & ideologically speaking. Worse still is that it has ardent jew advocates highly placed as the AmRen e-list threads detailed although some articles in the magazine as well as the statements of Taylor demonstrate this as well. Legion Europa has an excellent article on that subject which all should read.
If an American group were to be created that rejected both the Hollywood nazi set and faux racialism infiltration should not be a significant problem. I say this because such a group would not appeal to self indulgent ultra-extremists or psychotics because a genuine racialist organization rejects Turner Diary style fantasies and demands activism from it's members rather then just mere membership dues. If the general climate within a group is not conducive to the lone wolf mentality they won't come around and government infiltrators will have less fertile grounds for entrapment resulting in there being less of them. Clearly ADL/SPLC types and government spies will exist in any racial group but reporting on legal activities is harmless and a group with a solid ideological core that rejects self indulgent ultra - extremism and gustless pandering is one is one far more difficult to steer down system safe dead ends. While infiltration is a fact of political life it crippling an other wise productive organization need not be.
Public activism is the other part of defeating whispering campaigns and entrapment caused by our enemies and those that assist them. If a group's members are out dealing with the public they are quickly revealed to either be capable activists (or at least have the potential to be) or they are not amking house cleaning easier then just having a mailing list. Real life activism also gets rid of the bunker mentality which produces the paranoia and detachment from reality to so common to the American racist scene. Public activism forces those that care to tailor their message to what their lansmen think and develop real solutions to public policy programs rather then Foyier style pontificating and the remoteness of staid intellectualism. This process alone makes it very difficult for infiltrators to do any damage to a group.
2003-11-04 22:16 | User Profile
Look, all I'm saying is that someone who puts zero effort into the party has no right to complain about it. If all the "blood and soil conservatives" joined the AFP we would be the majority membership and have an impact on its policies and overall direction of the party. Its members come and they go. If there are those that join the party so only to use it as a platform to denounce jews then that person should be expelled immediately as it would only destroy the party. Promoting non-action, or promoting the two red parties in the US is the same as promoting suicide. This endless complaining and discouragement is what I find wrong with racialist right.
Get this through your head folks. White Nationalist parties and neo-Nazi parties are [U]a waste of time[/U]. It's your funeral folks. Will your children remember you for your endless complaining and discouragement or will they remember you for your hard constructive work?
2003-11-04 22:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]Look, all I'm saying is that someone who puts zero effort into the party has no right to complain about it. If all the "blood and soil conservatives" joined the AFP we would be the majority membership and have an impact on its policies and overall direction of the party. Its members come and they go. If there are those that join the party so only to use it as a platform to denounce jews then that person should be expelled immediately as it would only destroy the party. Promoting non-action, or promoting the two red parties in the US is the same as promoting suicide. This endless complaining and discouragement is what I find wrong with racialist right.
Get this through your head folks. White Nationalist parties and neo-Nazi parties are [U]a waste of time[/U]. It's your funeral folks. Will your children remember you for your endless complaining and discouragement or will they remember you for your hard constructive work?[/QUOTE]
When a party does or says things that are problematic those in and out of party should complain. The paleo-cons & racialists that have problems with the party don't join or have quit the AFP because the behavior of the leadership is horrid. Parties that are run by honest men and responsive to the membership can be changed by the membership. The AFP chose to purge those that did not accept the leadership's stance making it pointless to belong to it if you have a problem with the positions of the party and the conduct of the leadership.
While I agree with you about the horrid state of racist groups (they are not properly called racialist) in the states joining a false flag operation with dishonest and treasonous leadership is no solution. Of course neither is sitting about bitching and moaning. What is a real alternative is have a realistic ideology that offers something to your countrymen and living an activist existance that promotes that ideology. Given no worth while group exists in the states has taken those steps the only option (unless your very wealthy) is to follow a public activist program that has worked else where on your own with what ever sypathizers you can find locally. I have detailed how exactly to do that so perhaps someone will give it a shot. Of course if the ideas your promoting are fatally flawed because they offer no real change from the current order or because they are lunatic fringe positions suitable only to bunker dwellers you'll go no where in any case unless your very charismatic and a devistatingly effective activist.
2003-11-04 22:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]Look, all I'm saying is that someone who puts zero effort into the party has no right to complain about it. If all the "blood and soil conservatives" joined the AFP we would be the majority membership and have an impact on its policies and overall direction of the party. Its members come and they go. If there are those that join the party so only to use it as a platform to denounce jews then that person should be expelled immediately as it would only destroy the party. Promoting non-action, or promoting the two red parties in the US is the same as promoting suicide. This endless complaining and discouragement is what I find wrong with racialist right.
Get this through your head folks. White Nationalist parties and neo-Nazi parties are [U]a waste of time[/U]. It's your funeral folks. Will your children remember you for your endless complaining and discouragement or will they remember you for your hard constructive work?[/QUOTE]
Mithras, I completely understand and sympathize with your position here as I once had high hopes for the AFP. I also happen to know someone who put a great deal of effort into the AFP before its recent break up over Gritz and the national convention that ultimately led to Charles resigning and the party's complete and utter disarray. Those events go right to the heart of the reservations I and many others have about the AFP. Why put your heart, soul and time into something that will only end with the leadership selling you out and destructing the entire party in the process. Didn't we learn this lesson back in Buchanan's 2000 run and all of Hagelin's shenanigans? That's a legitimate concern in my opinion and would have to be addressed before I give the AFP another look. And from what I already know about Hey, I wouldn't want any part of an organization where he was anywhere near the power center.
2003-11-04 22:54 | User Profile
FW,
My memory isn't as sharp as it once was. Age perhaps, coupled with joy over the impeachment resolution of Genghis W. Bush completely overwhelmed me and caused me to forget our earlier thread. I'll have to fall back on Ron Paul and Howard Phillips, I suppose, or even Ralph Nader, as viable alternatives to the Republicrat establishment.
-Z-
2003-11-04 23:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Mithras, I completely understand and sympathize with your position here as I once had high hopes for the AFP. I also happen to know someone who put a great deal of effort into the AFP before its recent break up over Gritz and the national convention that ultimately led to Charles resigning and the party's complete and utter disarray. Those events go right to the heart of the reservations I and many others have about the AFP. Why put your heart, soul and time into something that will only end with the leadership selling you out and destructing the entire party in the process. Didn't we learn this lesson back in Buchanan's 2000 run and all of Hagelin's shenanigans? That's a legitimate concern in my opinion and would have to be addressed before I give the AFP another look. And from what I already know about Hey, I wouldn't want any part of an organization where he was anywhere near the power center.[/QUOTE]
Why is it that the Jews and Reds were successful in taking over the two main US parties and we the supposed intellectual elite can't even manage to take over a very small party founded by Buchananites and only a wee bit old? The key is to persist and persist in large numbers. Otherwise we have only signed our death certificates.
2003-11-04 23:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=triskelion]When a party does or says things that are problematic those in and out of party should complain. The paleo-cons & racialists that have problems with the party don't join or have quit the AFP because the behavior of the leadership is horrid. Parties that are run by honest men and responsive to the membership can be changed by the membership. The AFP chose to purge those that did not accept the leadership's stance making it pointless to belong to it if you have a problem with the positions of the party and the conduct of the leadership.
While I agree with you about the horrid state of racist groups (they are not properly called racialist) in the states joining a false flag operation with dishonest and treasonous leadership is no solution. Of course neither is sitting about bitching and moaning. What is a real alternative is have a realistic ideology that offers something to your countrymen and living an activist existance that promotes that ideology. Given no worth while group exists in the states has taken those steps the only option (unless your very wealthy) is to follow a public activist program that has worked else where on your own with what ever sypathizers you can find locally. I have detailed how exactly to do that so perhaps someone will give it a shot. Of course if the ideas your promoting are fatally flawed because they offer no real change from the current order or because they are lunatic fringe positions suitable only to bunker dwellers you'll go no where in any case unless your very charismatic and a devistatingly effective activist.[/QUOTE]
What you are talking about is so general and even more hazy that no one can be sure what exactly happened. Like I said, however, neo-nazis and extremists should be purged. And if the former leadership resigned from the AFP then what is your excuse now?
2003-11-04 23:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Zoroaster]FW,
My memory isn't as sharp as it once was. Age perhaps, coupled with joy over the impeachment resolution of Genghis W. Bush completely overwhelmed me and caused me to forget our earlier thread. I'll have to fall back on Ron Paul and Howard Phillips, I suppose, or even Ralph Nader, as viable alternatives to the Republicrat establishment.
-Z-[/QUOTE]
No offense, but your thinking is completely wrong. What I pray you are 2 people going to do?
2003-11-04 23:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]The link you supplied goes nowhere, and I place no value in hearsay. Have you even read the policies of the AFP? Do you even know who you yourself are trashing without any proof whatsoever through this hearsay? And most of all, you provide no alternative. Do you understand what I am saying when I write:
Check the links Centinel and Tex provided first. That should get you going. There's plenty in these threads to get the idea of what I'm saying.
Read everything we've written. If people aren't interested in study and researching the mistakes of something before they jump into something they are doomed to failure.
You may say failing is better than doing nothing at all. I say don't waste my time with knotheads and people with hidden agenda's, at the AFP or elsewhere. Even if they are just like you.
2003-11-04 23:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]What you are talking about is so general and even more hazy that no one can be sure what exactly happened. Like I said, however, neo-nazis and extremists should be purged. And if the former leadership resigned from the AFP then what is your excuse now?[/QUOTE]
If you want to know exactly what happened with the AFP leadership ask Tex, FWI & Okie as they can give you all the sorid details. I won't get into those things in detail as that would mean breaking promises I have made to others. Some of that stuff was covered in other threads here with links posted already. As to purging "neo-nazis and extremists" I note that 9 times out of ten those terms mean nothing but someone that is honest about racial matters even if what they say is factual, reasonable and presented without recourse to violence or costume fetishes. Again, you'll need to actually know something about what happened before your in a position to say anthing about it. Just as you'll need to get alot more specific about who and when to purge. As to the matter of leadership if the current clique left and someone else took charge that was not so morally offensive then I would be willing to give the AFP full consideration as a possible outlet for populism and help out as much as I can.
2003-11-05 06:24 | User Profile
wintermute:
As I see it, our job is to deprogram Whites (in large numbers, of course), which will have to be done first by culture jamming, not elections. If a white racialist candidate can take office somewhere, that's great. Otherwise, it's back to the grind: collating data, personal conversions, learning HTML, learning video editing/documentation techniques, arguing on as many forums as possible, hammering away at the facts on Neocons, the Liberty, Communism, Iraq, World Finance, Russia, the Kosher Tax, Feminism, nudging Libertarians towards the facts of race, keeping an eye out for disgruntled conservatives, chatting up friendly Left anti-globalists and environmentalists, and in general talking to any and everyone we can.
Here's an idea...buy copies of [url=http://www.americanfreepress.net]American Free Press[/url] and [url=http://www.manews.org]Middle American News[/url] in bulk and distribute them.
AFP does a decent job of highlighting the Israel lobby's highjacking of American foreign policy among other things, while MAN does good on the immigration front and has commentary by Francis, Sobran, Reese, Buchanan and Paul Craig Roberts.
At least distrubuting hard copy alternative media is one option paleos still have open to them, and if you're willing to spend $20-$30 a month I don't see much better bang for the buck. Plus you can earn a little money for yourself on the side in sales and commissions, hopefully enough to at least cover the cost of your stock.
Anyway, that's what I've been doing. Even though the best information is online, people seem to have a skeptical attitude these days about anything on the Internet, so this is a way to get the message out with something people can put their hands on at a reasonable cost to the messenger.
2003-11-05 16:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wintermute]Money. [/QUOTE]
No, I can't agree with that. The two major parties had more than enough money. Ever since FDR, communists have heavily infiltrated both parties and did not stop until their work was done. I think the key is in the large numbers and in the way they persisted.
In our cause, we would only need to convince people of the truth. That non-whites view the White race as the source of all evil and therefore wish and are working towards our extermination. In that light, race-traitors would be looked upon as scum, and not us, which is the way it should be.
Many like you wish for the cultural revolution. But that route requires many times the amount of money than it would take to have a party running in elections and campaigning.
Financial backing should be sought out from business leaders and fundraisers.
I am of the belief that nationalist policies are not a matter to be decided by the public, but by governments. Therefore I find everything wrong with placing all one's apples in the cultural revolution.
2003-11-05 16:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]Check the links Centinel and Tex provided first. [/QUOTE]
I read the 2 AFP threads. I knew about the purge awhile back, but lack the details. The 2 threads however contained nothing but speculation and hearsay. No details, no facts. But even if there is some truth to what you're saying, we should press on and persist or build another party.
2003-11-05 21:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]I read the 2 AFP threads. I knew about the purge awhile back, but lack the details. The 2 threads however contained nothing but speculation and hearsay. No details, no facts. But even if there is some truth to what you're saying, we should press on and persist or build another party.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the stuff in the two threads was from first hand sources rather then hearsay and some of the people in this thread have had a lot of first hand experiance with the AFP's current leadership so you could ask for information if you want any from the people I mentioned. It seems to me that you have chosen to not believe O.D. members whith actual experiance with the AFP and that's fine as posting bank statments, cheque copies, tape recording etc is not possible here so it comes down to a matter of trust and personal experiance I guess.
I understand that as I am very much oriented towards basic ground truths. As a result, I'd ask you what exactly the AFP is doing or has done in terms of practical, public activism. I have looked into that issue and i'm not satisfied to say the least. If you have come to some other conclusion by all means give them your money and time and get to know the leadership. You'll find out first hand the truth of matter but i am sure you'll regret doing so.
As to building another party i'd say that's totally beyond most people and a daunting proposition at best. More importaintly, I think that for all but a few truely exceptional people other options are better. If you are serious i'd suggest giving the public activism method i learned from others a try for a few months. Naturally, if you have questions after getting into such an endevor let me know.
2003-11-05 23:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=triskelion]Actually, the stuff in the two threads was from first hand sources rather then hearsay and some of the people in this thread have had a lot of first hand experiance with the AFP's current leadership so you could ask for information if you want any from the people I mentioned. It seems to me that you have chosen to not believe O.D. members whith actual experiance with the AFP and that's fine as posting bank statments, cheque copies, tape recording etc is not possible here so it comes down to a matter of trust and personal experiance I guess. [/QUOTE]
It's not that I don't believe them. I bet that some of what they imply is true. But that is just the thing. They haven't really claimed anything other than a few bits and pieces that the ADL is being tipped off with membership lists and that a few racists were purged by the old leadership. I haven't read anything to suggest that the AFP is a false front. The AFP has never claimed to be a racist party in the first place. A lot of you on this forum are unhappy with Buchanan for similar reasons, but he too never claimed to be a racist. As far as the AFP, I believe that stopping all immigration and utilizing the military to patrol the border--two policies of the AFP--is a good idea.
2003-11-05 23:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]It's not that I don't believe them. I bet that some of what they imply is true. But that is just the thing. They haven't really claimed anything other than a few bits and pieces that the ADL is being tipped off with membership lists and that a few racists were purged by the old leadership. I haven't read anything to suggest that the AFP is a false front. The AFP has never claimed to be a racist party in the first place. A lot of you on this forum are unhappy with Buchanan for similar reasons, but he too never claimed to be a racist. As far as the AFP, I believe that stopping all immigration and utilizing the military to patrol the border--two policies of the AFP--is a good idea.[/QUOTE]
Again, you'll have to ask them for details about what happened with the AFP leadership if you want to know what happened. In point of fact the AFP is very much a false flag in the worst sort of way and if you want find out simply get active with the current leadership. Also far more then a "few racists" (what ever the hell that means) were kicked out but instead a major faction of the party seeking a change were booted and they were not costume fetish types or idiots yelling about violence. Also, the current leadership has made it very clear that racialism (not just stereotypical ugly racial hatred) and any questions into the role of jewry in your nation's destruction is not allowed. It seems to me that simply like what they say and assume with zero experiance that they are for real. Again, I guess you have to get burned to learn other wise so I won't bother trying to talk you out of hooking up with them.
As for Buchanan I have gone over my problems with him and the mainstream paleo-con non movement numerous times and it is not the kind of complaints I have with the AFP. If your interested you can read those comments.
As to saying they want to end immigration and patrol the border that's nice and all but again we come to the question of what have they done in terms of public activism. The answer is nothing if you get serious about looking into the AFP and the reasons why they have done nothing is what's really disturbing.
I don't see any reason to persist in restating what I know so I wish you luck and hope you don't get burned to badly or waste too much time and money on the AFP's road to nowhere if you chose to get seriously involved with the current leadership.
2003-11-06 06:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]It's not that I don't believe them. I bet that some of what they imply is true. But that is just the thing. They haven't really claimed anything other than a few bits and pieces that the ADL is being tipped off with membership lists and that a few racists were purged by the old leadership. Are you talking about us? Reread our comments.
I haven't read anything to suggest that the AFP is a false front. The AFP has never claimed to be a racist party in the first place. A lot of you on this forum are unhappy with Buchanan for similar reasons, but he too never claimed to be a racist.
Any party that adopts policies obstensively that are strongly against ADL policies supporting internationalism, multiculturalism, and U.S intervention in support of Zionist expansionism and aggression, and then underhandedly agrees to spy for this self-same ADL information on its members, is by definition a false front.
You need to stdy and consider what a front orgaization is. It doesn't mean that it doesn't occasionally support policies that its membership base honestly supports - every front in the world does that. By your definition ther is no such thing as a front.
As far as the AFP, I believe that stopping all immigration and utilizing the military to patrol the border--two policies of the AFP--is a good idea.[/QUOTE]
I think the Communists support a lot of policies that are good ideas too, from opposing U.S. foreign militarism to creating world peace and prosperity (who could be against world peace and prosperity?). Does that make joining the Communists a good idea? It does by your standards.
2003-11-06 06:54 | User Profile
I think the Communists support a lot of policies that are good ideas too, from opposing U.S. foreign militarism to creating world peace and prosperity (who could be against world peace and prosperity?). Does that make joining the Communists a good idea? It does by your standards.
Immigration is now a "safe" topic for discussion in establishment conservatism, now that Jewish neocons are on the anti-immigration bandwagon for reasons we've discussed ad nauseum on this site.
There's no political risk--at least on the right--in being opposed to porous borders, hence it's an issue that the AFP can safely rally around as long as race is left out of the discussion.
2003-11-06 15:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I] Any party that adopts policies obstensively that are strongly against ADL policies supporting internationalism, multiculturalism, and U.S intervention in support of Zionist expansionism and aggression, and then underhandedly agrees to spy for this self-same ADL information on its members, is by definition a false front. [/QUOTE]
If one had proof that Hey or anyone else was feeding intel to the ADL then why not expose him to the leadership and have him expelled? If then, the leadership doesn't act we would have reason to believe that the AFP is a false front, but not before. It would have to be actual proof though, and not just mere speculation.
Don't confuse the party with one person. Every party is going to be infiltrated by any number of spies, oppurtunists, feds, etc. That is just a fact of life.
2003-11-06 15:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=triskelion]Again, you'll have to ask them for details about what happened with the AFP leadership if you want to know what happened. [/QUOTE]
If they care to write something here, sure. What you have written is still a bit vague.
What should be noted, I think, is that the early period of a party is the most crucial, as how it presents itself in that time will forever remain in the party's image.
If one were to blast the Jews and speak of a White Nationalism the party would be destroyed before it began. That is the popular opinion.
Parties like the BNP don't present themselves as racialist parties. Members of the BNP will even get expelled if caught at White Nationalist Party meetings. And the BNP hardly ever talks about jews. Now, this does not mean that they are a false front, but they do have their enemies from the racialist circle.
A party like the AFP should be no different.
Otherwise the only way to support the more radical views would be to assemble a large paramilitary order like the SA in the numbers of memberships that would pose a threat. But this is unlikely to happen. So the populist route is taken.
2003-11-06 16:57 | User Profile
To add more to this topic, I donââ¬â¢t recall anyone in the AFP saying anything close to what Italyââ¬â¢s AN leader ââ¬ÅFruityââ¬Â Fini said just last Tuesday: ââ¬ÅIsrael shares the values of the west.ââ¬Â He also described the results of the EU poll in which the majority of Europeans believe Israel the greatest threat to the world as ââ¬Åsimply crazy.ââ¬Â He is saying that the Palestinians have no right to the land and Israel is the total victim in all of this. He denies the reality of everything that has happened and then he has the audacity to complain about people in his government that want to remove the cross. Fini is a fraud.
[I]Fini no more represents Christianity than do the Christian Democrats, or for that matter, a Jewish Pope.[/I]
See text: [url]http://www.alleanzanazionale.it/portale/international.pl?iid=92674[/url]
Now as to why I think parties are so important, as I have commented before, all of the work which NA-like activism has accomplished can be demolished when we have not a foot in the government. It is starting already: [url]http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1038[/url]
2003-11-06 18:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]If one had proof that Hey or anyone else was feeding intel to the ADL then why not expose him to the leadership and have him expelled? If then, the leadership doesn't act we would have reason to believe that the AFP is a false front, but not before. It would have to be actual proof though, and not just mere speculation.
Unreal. Do you always by the same token do business with criminals, because "if they were guilty of something, the police would have already put them in jail"?
In the real world if someone stonewalls like this when you point out defects in their associates, it means full well that are in all probability in league with the person themseves.
Don't confuse the party with one person. Every party is going to be infiltrated by any number of spies, oppurtunists, feds, etc. That is just a fact of life.[/QUOTE] And forum. We know that well. Its a fact, but you certainly don't want to minimize or ignore the dangers if you don't fall into this category yourself.
2003-11-06 18:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]Unreal. Do you always by the same token do business with criminals, because "if they were guilty of something, the police would have already put them in jail"?
In the real world if someone stonewalls like this when you point out defects in their associates, it means full well that are in all probability in league with the person themseves.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, c'mon now. Just repeating over and over that Hey is an informant does not make it so. After I have asked for proof and you refused that would make you a liar under your same logic presented above.
And now are you going to imply by the same standards that I am working for the jews by posting here my extremely valid points which you have continuously ignored?
2003-11-06 18:41 | User Profile
We will clearly not come to an agreement on the AFP. Enough information can be found here as to why several of use don't trust the leadership and if you want more then that you'll have to find out first hand.
You mention the BNP which is funny because if you read Nick Griffin's book the Mind Benders you'll note that his notions on jewry is no different then mine. I have spent a very large amount of time talking with BNP members and attending BNP events and the reality is that most of the membership is very much racialistic. The rules of the BNP are that members are not supposed to affiliate with American style Klan groups or Third Reich inspired groups with particular emphasis upon avoided C18 styled state honey traps. In point of fact, a great many BNP members belong to other, more sensible, racialist groups but as an American you'd likely not know that.
You mentioned the way a party is founded matters in the way it's image is projected which is true. The BNP was founded in 1980 as one of the numerous factions that split off from the NF which at that times was suffering massive internal problems and every single major figure within the BNP was a former activist within the old NF. If you knew anything about racial politics in the UK you'd know that within the BNP a very large portion of the membership is very unhappy with the current leadership (go to the former chairmen's magazine/site Spearhead for a quick introduction to the matter) which have stayed with the party in an attempt to reform it from the inside. If you spend a bit of time looking into the matter you'll see just how divided that party really is. Of course a great deal of the nationalist movement within the UK has long given up on Mr. Griffin's party although they still vote for it as the lesser of evils with much coaxing from people that hold a pragmatic view like mine. Take some time out and read up on the matter. If you do and wish to cover the issue further I'll do so.
As to Italy's NA you might have noticed that I have been very critical of them for the simple reason that they are run by traitors and that the party is nothing like MSI from which it came but simply a neo-con cabal that worthy of contempt. As to the AFP I know for a fact that the current leadership holds views no different then Finiââ¬â¢s and has stated as much publicly many times. I have also made very substantial critiques of the American NA so don't equate me as an uncritical supporter of them. Read what I have had to say about them or ask first.
I have noted that you spend lots of time attacking "racists" whom you never define and embracing the idea that they ought to be purged while promoting some ill defined American style populism that has gone no where in living memory. If some unprincipled mercenary like Buchanan ever did manage to go any where it seems pretty obvious that heââ¬â¢d act no better then Fini. What Fini proves is that surrendering any principle worth holding to win elections is no accomplishment. That one wishes to reject the depressing morass that is the American racial scene, as I do, does mean that embracing faux populism is the only alternative let alone the most appropriate one as your comments seem to imply. If you have something else to offer other then American style populism which has been an unqualified failure for decades please do so. If I misunderstand your position please correct me as I certainly wish to not misprepresent your stance.
2003-11-06 18:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=triskelion] If I misunderstand your position please correct me as I certainly wish to not misprepresent your stance.[/QUOTE]
You have clearly misunderstood and misrepesented nearly everything I have written or believe in.
First of which, the BNP went NOWHERE under Tyndall's direction, and is going strong under the current leadership. You attack moderate racialism or populism but for fifty years radicalists have gone absolutely nowhere and have actually become counterproductive.
As for Zionism, I support certain aspects of it. I don't want jews in my nations. I want them gone. So the next question is where do they go? What inspires them to leave? ....Bingo! What I object to is fighting jews' wars and giving them financial aid.
I don't attack "racists". I have views that are most likely far more extreme than yours. I believe it would even be improper for me to write them out here. Otherwise I'd let you know exactly where I stand.
I'm not trying to turn this into a flame war. All I'm asking is that you try to understand my position as to why things have to be this way. I would much rather have a political army, but it just is not a possibility at the moment.
2003-11-06 19:39 | User Profile
[quote=Frederick William]Unreal. Do you always by the same token do business with criminals, because "if they were guilty of something, the police would have already put them in jail"?
In the real world if someone stonewalls like this when you point out defects in their associates, it means full well that are in all probability in league with the person themseves.
[QUOTE=Mithras]Oh, c'mon now. Just repeating over and over that Hey is an informant does not make it so. After I have asked for proof and you refused that would make you a liar under your same logic presented above.
And now are you going to imply by the same standards that I am working for the jews by posting here my extremely valid points which you have continuously ignored?[/QUOTE]
And when someone asks you for detailed information on your confidential sources before they make a judgement, it almost always means they are going to feed information on these sources back to the godfather, so they can stop the leaks or rub out the informants.
It is the height of stupidity to waste time with people you have no personal confidence in. Such as the AFP. Or yourself.
2003-11-06 19:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]And when someone asks you for detailed information on your confidential sources before they make a judgement, it almost always means they are going to feed information on these sources back to the godfather, so they can stop the leaks or rub out the informants.
It is the height of stupidity to waste time with people you have no personal confidence in. Such as the AFP. Or yourself.[/QUOTE]
Woah there big guy. I am asking for proof that Hey is an informant, don't care who your sources are. What is the sense of having sources at all? What is the sense of having information if you're not going to use it to your advantage?
Don't treat everyone with such suspicion my friend. It's just a year old party that is likely to go nowhere given the mess that the US is in. At this point you still haven't figured out that you and me have nothing to lose. We are headed for EXTINCTION my friend.
2003-11-06 20:28 | User Profile
To conclude on this, I have stated my reasons for why I feel it is important to take over a party, but I am left wondering why you feel it so important to protect your sources. You already compromised your source by implying that Hey is an informant. But also, you have already written off the AFP and therefore the source is of no further use to you. So therefore you would have nothing to lose in exposing your source unless that source feared for his life. This doesn't seem to be a situation that is life-threatening however. I really don't see the point or the critical value in all of this.
2003-11-06 20:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]You have clearly misunderstood and misrepesented nearly everything I have written or believe in.
First of which, the BNP went NOWHERE under Tyndall's direction, and is going strong under the current leadership. You attack moderate racialism or populism but for fifty years radicalists have gone absolutely nowhere and have actually become counterproductive.
As for Zionism, I support certain aspects of it. I don't want jews in my nations. I want them gone. So the next question is where do they go? What inspires them to leave? ....Bingo! What I object to is fighting jews' wars and giving them financial aid.
I don't attack "racists". I have views that are most likely far more extreme than yours. I believe it would even be improper for me to write them out here. Otherwise I'd let you know exactly where I stand.
I'm not trying to turn this into a flame war. All I'm asking is that you try to understand my position as to why things have to be this way. I would much rather have a political army, but it just is not a possibility at the moment.[/QUOTE]
First I am sorry if I misrepresented your views as I is not my intention to do so. However, given your talk of the needed to purge undefined racists combined with your defense of the worst aspects of the BNP my summation of your outlook seems tenable.
You say the BNP went nowhere under Tyndall's leadership yet it was he that founded the BNP and built it into the single largest racialist group in the UK at a time when numerous other groups simply imploded and he did it while under massive state oppression and defection of the "moderates" to the Tories. Mr. Griffin himself used to be very complementary of the leadership skills of Mr. Tyndall and the fact is that were it not for his very substantial effort in keeping his supporters within the party it would have long ago fractured into several grouplets just as the NF before it.
Personally, I like Mr. Griffin and my dealings with him have been quite good (some of members here may recall my efforts to prevent anti-BNP sentiment and an anti-Griffin revolt which was taking place at EK a while back) and I give his party money several times a year and help out with various campaigns via comrades of mine in the UK. Of course I have some real concerns with some aspects of the direction he has taken the party but I've never been a harsh critic and feel that he has done plenty of great things recently.
You made the completely incorrect statement: "You attack moderate racialism or populism but for fifty years racialists have gone absolutely nowhere and have actually become counterproductive." When the fact is I attack populists that have utterly abandoned any semblance of nationalist principle for electoral gain. Specifically, you could see my critiques of the Italian NA, Buchanan, PFL and Vlamms Block. Also undeniable but something that is clearly lost on you is that I do attack just as often the self indulgent extremism that defines the American racist (rather then racialist) scene. What you euphemistically call "moderate" populism has never succeeded in reversing the destruction of the Occident anywhere and it never will because such efforts have at their basis the suicidal notion that multi-racialism can exist within a healthy Occidental nation, that current Order can somehow be preserved as National renewal take place by establishmentarian politics despite the fact that every data point is to the contrary. Naturally, I suspect you'll refer to me as a "nazi", "racist" or being "doctrinaire" and endorse the purging of those that reject "moderate" populism from such wildly successful movements as the AFP and Buchananism.
What I do support is populist parties that I disagree with to a large extent but nonetheless show adherence principle, electoral viability and the will power to attempt to carry out racially beneficial public policies while in government. I also support positive, sensible racialist organizations of all description and I am pleased to say the efforts of those groups and my own personal projects have been very successful. Of course, given the authoritarian conditions that I and all other folkish proponents operate under I don't harbor the illusion that National Restoration is something that can be accomplished in the short term. The current state of decay took many decades to achieve and reversing it is an enormous task. However, I've seen lots of encouraging developments within the last several years, especially in Eastern Europa nad the Baltics, and those that pay attention to the groups I hold up as exemplarily will note why that is.
2003-11-06 22:03 | User Profile
I've begun getting mail from the state AFP list again, but nothing from the national list, if they've set one up. A few of us who were members and like-minded stayed in touch to discuss what, if any, future association we should have with the party. Here's something I received from one of these people today:
"It's an interesting idea [infiltration] and one worth discussing. John Francis the new head is pretty solid and quite a good speaker. He has deep roots with Traficant and ran for Congress around the same time Traficant did even though he did not win. Whatever the case, the party would require a purge. It is still laden with some Israel firsters. With the right people in place, ties could be re-established with American Free Press and contact could be made with the Euro Nationalist movements through the paper initially and personally later. Efforts need to be discussed in forming a movement that has agreement on certain fundamentals. An above board party is fine to have, and useful, as long as there is activity going on below radar that is pushing the envelope. In my opinion there must be a local cell movement that can work unimpeded by press or infiltrators with little to no root tracing. An example of this would be the forming of school clubs like the European Heritage club we discussed a short while back by local parents and their helpful children. Front groups are a must in my opinion for successful activism. The Left has employed these tactics very successfully and we should study their handbook on how to work the system." GCP
2003-11-07 01:34 | User Profile
Jean West:
With the right people in place, ties could be re-established with American Free Press
So, it appears that the American Free Press crew is aware that something is amiss in the party?
2003-11-07 09:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Jean West]I've begun getting mail from the state AFP list again, but nothing from the national list, if they've set one up. A few of us who were members and like-minded stayed in touch to discuss what, if any, future association we should have with the party. Here's something I received from one of these people today:
"It's an interesting idea [infiltration] and one worth discussing. John Francis the new head is pretty solid and quite a good speaker. He has deep roots with Traficant and ran for Congress around the same time Traficant did even though he did not win. Whatever the case, the party would require a purge. It is still laden with some Israel firsters. With the right people in place, ties could be re-established with American Free Press and contact could be made with the Euro Nationalist movements through the paper initially and personally later. Efforts need to be discussed in forming a movement that has agreement on certain fundamentals. [/QUOTE] Its odd. People like this don't seem to have the first ideas about organization and executing tactics, but they're full of idle speculations for the future. How anyone would even talk about establishing > a local cell movement that can work unimpeded by press or infiltrators with little to no root tracing.
when the two leading heads of the party are reputed ADL informants boggles the mind.
Quite transparently the AFP is an extremely unreliable group right now, as you would expect with the ADL running the show. I would approach anyone associated with the party at the present time with extreme caution. Even this fellow sounds at best rather indiscrete.
[quote=Centinel]So, it appears that the American Free Press crew is aware that something is amiss in the party?
One would certainly hope so by now. LOL
2003-11-07 15:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]the two leading heads of the party are reputed ADL informants [/QUOTE]
You mentioned that you think Hey might be an informant. Who is the other one? Charles? Why not take this information to Francis?
[QUOTE]I would approach anyone associated with the party at the present time with extreme caution. [/QUOTE]
What do you suppose would happen? Every group and every party is infiltrated. That means, the libertarians, constitutionalists, the NA, southern parties. The goal of the infiltration is to scare people away from joining and forming a large opposition force. Perhaps I am just stupid as I do not see the danger in simply joining a political party. The alternative is that our country is destroyed, we become minorities, and we Whites get slaughtered by negroes and hispanics like a large version of zimbabwe.
2003-11-07 18:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Jean West]I've begun getting mail from the state AFP list again, but nothing from the national list, if they've set one up. A few of us who were members and like-minded stayed in touch to discuss what, if any, future association we should have with the party. Here's something I received from one of these people today:
"It's an interesting idea [infiltration] and one worth discussing. John Francis the new head is pretty solid and quite a good speaker. He has deep roots with Traficant and ran for Congress around the same time Traficant did even though he did not win. Whatever the case, the party would require a purge. It is still laden with some Israel firsters. With the right people in place, ties could be re-established with American Free Press and contact could be made with the Euro Nationalist movements through the paper initially and personally later.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps one ought to make it clear what kind of people think Francis "is pretty solid"
Boulder, CO -- The America First Party's National Committee completed a fruitful in-person meeting Saturday, October 25 in Des Plaines, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago. The Committee elected new officers and standing committee chairmen, adopted changes to the party's Constitution, and began laying plans for the Party's 2004 National Convention.
The National Committee elected Mr. John Francis as its next National Chairman. Mr. Francis, who is a founding member of the Party, has led the America First Party of Ohio since April 2002.
Mr. Francis explained his dedication to the America First Party: "We're building a new party to protect the rights and the freedom of our children and grandchildren. When my kids and grand kids ask me what I was doing when the Constitution was under attack, as it is now, I want to be able to tell them we did our best for them. I only have to look at my kids and my grand kids to know that I must do everything that I can to protect their future."
Mr. Francis expressed his desire to hit the ground running: "We have put in place today a plan to build this party organization in every state, and every county of this country. We have our work cut out for us, but with the Grace of God and the love many people have for this great country, we will succeed."
Dan Charles, the Party's Chairman Emeritus, expressed enthusiasm about his successor's election: "Mr. Francis has the drive to continue the progress that our Party has already made. He will provide dynamic leadership for the National Committee and the party rank and file. We all look forward to working with him to ensure the future of the Party and this great nation."
The National Committee also elected Jonathan Hill of Massachusetts as its new vice-chairman. Mr. Charles was tapped to chair the Rules Committee. Mr. L. Thomas White of Massachusetts was elected chair of the Party Building Committee. Mr. Larry Carroll of Colorado was chosen to head up the Platform Committee. Mr. John Hey, Mrs. Maureen McHugh, Mrs. Romelle Winters, and Mr. Jonathan Hill were retained as National Secretary, National Treasurer, Public Relations Chairman, and Finance Committee Chairman respectively.
[url]http://www.americafirstparty.org/news/2003/PressRel2003_11_04.shtml[/url]
2003-11-07 18:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]You mentioned that you think Hey might be an informant. Who is the other one? Charles? Why not take this information to Francis?
Why not just take the information to Charles or Hey themselves? That sounds like it would be about the same thing. (See above note). Or for that matter Abe Foxman himself.
To put it mildly, you sound like a hard-headed person, and I doubt you ever planned to listen to what we say. You obviously have your own agenda, whatever that exactly is. I tell you what, if you think that contacting Francis is such a good idea, why don't you call him up yourself? His number after all was listed on the press release you started the thread with.
You don't have to mention where you got this from - I suspect it would be a fast way to get OD on the next Hatewatch list. But what the heck, you sound like you're hot to trot on this anyway, so go for it.
Tell us how it goes. LOL
The goal of the infiltration is to scare people away from joining and forming a large opposition force.
Just curious - how did you become such an expert on infiltration? :ninja:
Perhaps I am just stupid as I do not see the danger in simply joining a political party. Perhaps. And perhaps not.
In whatever case, do what you want to do. Let us know how it goes.
2003-11-07 19:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]Why not just take the information to Charles or Hey themselves? That sounds like it would be about the same thing. [/QUOTE]
Obviously it is not, at this point.
[QUOTE]To put it mildly, you sound like a hard-headed person, and I doubt you ever planned to listen to what we say. [/QUOTE]
That is not true. I just don't like it when people ignore my questions and rather repeat very general statements about the entire organization because of a suspected bad apple or two. And even if it was a false front, which we have had no reason to believe this, working towards the goals of the policies already stated (by the AFP) would be very beneficial to the country. This is what I've been trying to get accross for days now, but you seem more bent on the fact that certain factions of the leadership will not allow their party to be a racist or White Nationalist party. If I started a party I would not let that happen either, as it would inevitably result in the party being marginalized like all the rest of the parties who tried this.
[QUOTE]You obviously have your own agenda, whatever that exactly is. I tell you what, if you think that contacting Francis is such a good idea, why don't you call him up yourself? His number after all was listed on the press release you started the thread with.[/QUOTE]
I am not the one that claims to have proof that Hey or anyone else is an informant. It would be pointless and rude for me to make these accusations.
[QUOTE]Just curious - how did you become such an expert on infiltration?[/QUOTE]
It's part of history. Why not read this piece here:
[url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/chernikov5.html[/url]
2003-11-08 01:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Jean West]I've begun getting mail from the state AFP list again, but nothing from the national list, if they've set one up. A few of us who were members and like-minded stayed in touch to discuss what, if any, future association we should have with the party. Here's something I received from one of these people today:
"It's an interesting idea [infiltration] and one worth discussing. John Francis the new head is pretty solid and quite a good speaker. He has deep roots with Traficant and ran for Congress around the same time Traficant did even though he did not win. Whatever the case, the party would require a purge. It is still laden with some Israel firsters. With the right people in place, ties could be re-established with American Free Press and contact could be made with the Euro Nationalist movements through the paper initially and personally later. [/QUOTE]
Although Milthras is still stuck on the Hey/Charles gang, who he thinks are the only salvation of America, I do think it is good that we bring up some alternatives. I noticed [url=http://www.americafoundingfathersparty.org/contacts.htm]the America Founding Fathers Party[/url], which you first brought to my attention, is still up and running, although most of the activity seems to be at its Tennessee Branch [url=http://www.afptn.org/]America First Party of Tennessee[/url]. It seems at least better than doing nothing, or at the very least better than working for the enemy, a la the Hey/Charles gang.
Maybe Jean you know someone who could explain this suicidal urge that still exists in factions of the AFP to put in more labor with the Hey/Charles gang. It baffles me how anybody could think a party with leaders such as this could be redeemed, no mater how pretty their platform sounds.
2003-11-08 22:36 | User Profile
[quote=mithras]1. I don't attack "racists". I have views that are most likely far more extreme than yours. I believe it would even be improper for me to write them out here. Otherwise I'd let you know exactly where I stand.
[QUOTE=Mithras]2. Obviously it is not, at this point.
That is not true. I just don't like it when people ignore my questions and rather repeat very general statements about the entire organization because of a suspected bad apple or two. And even if it was a false front, which we have had no reason to believe this, working towards the goals of the policies already stated (by the AFP) would be very beneficial to the country. This is what I've been trying to get accross for days now, but you seem more bent on the fact that certain factions of the leadership will not allow their party to be a racist or White Nationalist party. If I started a party I would not let that happen either, as it would inevitably result in the party being marginalized like all the rest of the parties who tried this.
Odd. We have the No. 1. Mithras who claims to have extreme racist views, but when it gets to practical party politics he thinks these views have no part. :wacko: Odd - I wonder how sincere your views really are. It sounds like one of those politicians "personally opposed to things.:unsure:
Anyway in 2. (more like the real Mithras it would seem) it sounds like you think informing the ADL on members who you perceived to be aligned with the "racist" or "White Nationalist" factions wouldn't be such a bad idea anyway. Why not let the ADL help keep your party racist clean, and devoted to diversity and tolerance?
Indeed, why not join yourself?
[quote=Mithras]I am not the one that claims to have proof that Hey or anyone else is an informant. It would be pointless and rude for me to make these accusations.
Chicken.
[quote=Frederick William I]Just curious - how did you become such an expert on infiltration?[quote=Mithras]It's part of history. Why not read this piece here:
[url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/chernikov5.html[/url][/QUOTE]
I got around to it, and it had nothing to do with what you say it did
I did, and it had nothing to do with what you say it did.
I don't see you around today, but I think based on your performance so far, there is one iron-clad rule that ought to be clear when joining a political party. Unless it far surpasses yourself in clarity and the ability to inspire confidence, I wouldn;t touch it with a ten-foot pole.
2003-11-08 23:16 | User Profile
I'm starting to think if Francis, Hey and Charles actually cared about dispelling ADL/SPLC rumours they'd be on OD by now defending themselves.
I'm sure they're aware of this forum and probably lurk here regularly.
Chances are someone somewhere has given the AFP leadership a heads-up on these discussions.
2003-11-08 23:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I] I wonder how sincere your views really are. [/QUOTE]
You have blown this discussion right into a black hole by refusing to answer any of the questions that I posed and refusing to reply to any of the content I posted. You instead choose to launch personal attacks because you have nothing to back up your ridiculous claims. I truly wonder how sincere your views are.
2003-11-08 23:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]I got around to it, and it had nothing to do with what you say it did [/QUOTE]
Perhaps you just misunderstood what it was about.
2003-11-08 23:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Centinel]I'm starting to think if Francis, Hey and Charles actually cared about dispelling ADL/SPLC rumours they'd be on OD by now defending themselves. [/QUOTE]
Right, so childish insults can be slung at them and baseless accusations without any shred of proof.
2003-11-10 15:38 | User Profile
The America Founding Fathers Party is merely a cheap imitation of the AFP. There is no reason for it to even exist. All the other stupid parties, constitution party, libertarian party, etc., are grossly inferior and have no reason to exist. All this does is create disunity and destroy any chance of forming a large opposition party. I hate to say this but America deserves to be destroyed if its people can't achieve something as simple as coming together and forming a single large opposition party to the current establishment which they spend all day whining and moaning about.