← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Hilaire Belloc
Thread ID: 10904 | Posts: 16 | Started: 2003-11-03
2003-11-03 16:03 | User Profile
[url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031103/ap_on_re_eu/gay_bishop_world_2[/url]
Many Anglicans Won't Recognize Gay Bishop
By SUE LEEMAN, Associated Press Writer
LONDON - Conservative Anglicans said Monday they will cut or loosen ties with the U.S. diocese that has consecrated the church's first openly gay bishop, but supporters of V. Gene Robinson said his elevation had sent a powerful message of love and tolerance.
In a statement issued Monday, Nigerian archbishop Peter Akinola said Robinson's consecration in New Hampshire on Sunday demonstrates that parts of the U.S. Episcopal Church "consider that their cultural-based agenda is of far greater importance than obedience to the word of God.
"The overwhelming majority of the primates (Anglican leaders) of the global south cannot and will not recognize the office or ministry of Canon Gene Robinson as a bishop," Akinola's statement said. Resistance to gay bishops has been particularly strong in Africa.
In a separate statement, the Anglican Church of Uganda said it will cut all ties with the New Hampshire diocese. Thomas Kogo, bishop of the town of Eldoret in neighboring Kenya, said his diocese will not recognize Robinson as a bishop but will maintain its ties to the New Hampshire diocese.
"The admission of homosexuals in the church ... is unacceptable to the church," said Stanley Ntagari, a spokesman for the Ugandan Anglican church, with 8 million members Africa's second largest. "We do not recognize that man as a bishop."
The Episcopal Church is the U.S. branch of the international Anglican Communion, which encompasses 77 million believers.
Peter Jensen, the conservative Anglican archbishop of Sydney, Australia, said the consecration of Robinson — who is divorced and lives openly with his partner — was wrong "because the word of God teaches us clearly what the standards are for Christian behavior in leaders and Canon Robinson does not fulfill those requirements.
"This creates a split for the first time in a particular area, and that's a tragedy but it's necessary if the truth is to be preserved," Jensen said.
Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, spiritual leader of the Anglican Communion, deplored such schisms Monday.
"It is clear that those who have consecrated Gene Robinson have acted in good faith on their understanding of what the constitution of the American church permits," he said in a statement. "But the effects of this upon the ministry and witness of the overwhelming majority of Anglicans particularly in the nonwestern world have to be confronted with honesty."
Williams, who is personally sympathetic to gay rights but has pledged to uphold the church's teaching that homosexual acts are contrary to Scripture, struggled to bridge the differences at a meeting of Anglican leaders last month. As spiritual leader, he has no authority to impose discipline.
"The primates meeting last month expressed its desire to continue as 'a communion where what we hold in common is much greater than that which divides us,'" Williams said. "We need now to work very hard to giving new substance to this."
Robinson expressed hope Sunday that his elevation would show the church is reaching out to "people who find themselves at the margins," just as Jesus did. But he acknowledged that some Episcopalians will break ties with himself and the leaders of the denomination's majority forces.
"They must know if they must leave, they will always be welcomed back," Robinson said to one of several rousing rounds of applause from the 4,000 supportive worshippers gathered in a university sports arena.
The division became obvious in the three-hour service when assistant Bishop David Bena, of Albany, N.Y., read a statement on behalf of 28 bishops of the Episcopal Church and 10 in the Anglican Church of Canada, announcing they will not recognize Robinson as a bishop.
The British evangelical campaign group Reform said Monday the Anglican Communion must "formalize the separation" it said had been caused by Sunday's ceremony.
But Changing Attitude, a British organization of Anglican bishops, priests and lay people, said Robinson would play an important role in the "dramatic new reality" facing the Anglican community.
"His ministry will inspire lesbian, gay, bisexual and heterosexual Christians with new confidence that we have a full place at the communion table of our Lord," said Rev. Colin Coward, director of Changing Attitude.
And the Rev. Richard Kirker, general secretary of Britain's Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, who attended the consecration ceremony, said even those who are troubled by Robinson's sexuality "are full of praise for him as a man of God, pastor and teacher.
"We Christians have so much to unite and inspire us, let us seize the moment and let our love for each other triumph over our divisions," he said.
2003-11-03 20:12 | User Profile
Isn't it within the Archbishop of Canterbury's power to break off fellowship from the heretics in America?
2003-11-04 04:05 | User Profile
Not surprizing since the Anglican leadership is weak and effeminate. They are losing their worshipers' by the thousands - monthly.
Once, the popular Church of England, and now almost a homosexual religious sect. They have no authority. They have little support. And they are ridiculed.
Perhaps the so-called intellectual leadership of the Anglican Church are too stupid to understand their failure. Perhaps they consider themselves liberal pioneers against the proper and human thoughts of their parishioners.
In any case they will soon be preaching their multiculutural 'love' to no one.
2003-11-04 07:50 | User Profile
It is simply unfathomable to me the level of narcissism that would completely wreck the world-wide Anglican church just so one could openly live in homosexual perversion. It's sin enough that he did it to his original family, much less the Anglican church and all Christendom.
And this homo priest dares to call himself a minister of the Gospel. A pox on this perverted in more ways than one man.
2003-11-04 13:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]It is simply unfathomable to me the level of narcissism that would completely wreck the world-wide Anglican church just so one could openly live in homosexual perversion. It's sin enough that he did it to his original family, much less the Anglican church and all Christendom.
And this homo priest dares to call himself a minister of the Gospel. A pox on this perverted in more ways than one man.[/QUOTE]
It's a shame the Anglicans aren't taking a hard-line stance on this like the Orthodox church did, when they defrocked those priests that carried out a homosexual marriage and then had the church destroyed.
By then again, what do you expect from the Church that named Brittney Spears a saint back in December 2000? [url]http://www.dotmusic.com/news/December2000/news16894.asp[/url]
2003-11-04 16:20 | User Profile
It is simply unfathomable to me the level of narcissism that would completely wreck the world-wide Anglican church just so one could openly live in homosexual perversion. It's sin enough that he did it to his original family, much less the Anglican church and all Christendom.
The whole episode is disgusting in more ways than one. Robinson was blathering on about how he was sorry his elevation had caused such a furor and that he wanted the church to heal the rift, etc. What I was yelling at the TV was, "Then why don't you withdraw yourself from consideration if you truly care about what happens to the chruch, you pervert?!" Naturally, the infobabe on CNN didn't respond.
I do think this is another instance of overreaching, as most folks aren't too comfortable with homosexuals in the church, especially with the Catholic priest scandal (I don't bring it up to offend Walter, but, right or wrong, it's fresh on everyone's mind), not to mention discomfiture on a moral level. Yet, here is this openly gay philanderer being shoved down the throats of the faithful. I hope the sane members of the Anglican church get it together and either clean house or break off and start again, leaving the nutjobs who promoted all this to wallow in their own moral sewer.
2003-11-04 18:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]It is simply unfathomable to me the level of narcissism that would completely wreck the world-wide Anglican church just so one could openly live in homosexual perversion. It's sin enough that he did it to his original family, much less the Anglican church and all Christendom.[/QUOTE]
What if they decided to grant a guy a divorce against Church law so that he could marry his girlfriend, and wrecked the unity of the entire Western Church in the process? What if that same guy then went on to "marry" five more times, executing several of these "wives" along the way?
What then?
Love,
Walter
2003-11-05 20:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]What if they decided to grant a guy a divorce against Church law so that he could marry his girlfriend, and wrecked the unity of the entire Western Church in the process? What if that same guy then went on to "marry" five more times, executing several of these "wives" along the way?
What then?[/QUOTE]
Good point! It's not like the Anglican church was actually founded on real theological grounds. At least Martin Luther used real theological arguments to back his withdrawl from Rome.
2003-11-06 03:18 | User Profile
The reformatory zeal of Martin Luther in Germany and John Knox in Scotland, in their successful battles against the corruption and perversion of the Church of Rome, paved the pathways that Germany, Britain, Scandinavia and North America would follow.
At that time it could only be regarded as an advancement - in scientific, social and economic terms. But with this new set of values came greater demands and expectations. These demands continue today. And in itself has become corrupt and perverse.
2003-11-06 05:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mentzer]The reformatory zeal of Martin Luther in Germany and John Knox in Scotland, in their successful battles against the corruption and perversion of the Church of Rome, paved the pathways that Germany, Britain, Scandinavia and North America would follow.
At that time it could only be regarded as an advancement - in scientific, social and economic terms. But with this new set of values came greater demands and expectations. These demands continue today. And in itself has become corrupt and perverse.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you here. Much of the :dung: we see today in the modern world has its origins in the Protestant reformation.
2003-11-10 02:33 | User Profile
The most successful nations today are those that followed on from, and adopted, the Protestant reformation.
Unfortunately these nations are now subject to internal liberal disintegration and an invasion of unwelcome economic migrants and criminals.
It is clearly the fault of the weak and stupid within those countries that confuse the notion of 'human rights' of the interloper with the legal and justified security and well-being of the native citizen.
Perhaps it is time to return the liberals to their rightful position - drinking tea in their sitting-rooms.
2003-11-10 02:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mentzer]The most successful nations today are those that followed on from, and adopted, the Protestant reformation. [/QUOTE]
That's highly debatable you know!
2003-11-12 03:42 | User Profile
While I agree with Walter and Perun (hey, I agree with Hilaire Belloc. See his HOW THE REFORMATION HAPPENED and CHARACTERS OF THE REFORMATION for a traditional Catholic view of the controversy), I'd say the main problem now, for both Protestants and Catholics, is dealing with "internal liberal disintegration", as Mentzer wrote.
2003-11-12 03:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=perun1201]Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you here. Much of the :dung: we see today in the modern world has its origins in the Protestant reformation.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense. The problem began when the Greek heretics rebelled against the True Church in 1054
It's been downhill all the way ever since...
2003-11-12 04:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mmartins]Nonsense. The problem began when the Greek heretics rebelled against the True Church in 1054
It's been downhill all the way ever since...[/QUOTE]
Oh sure blame the Eastern Christians. Nevermind that the Eastern Orthodox churches are actually thriving and maintaining their staunch traditional positions while the Catholic and Protestant churches are going to :dung:. As a Byzantine Catholic, I see first hand some of the guff the Roman rite gives us and even how poorly treated we are within the Church. Some Eastern Catholic churches are so neglected by the Roman leadership that Orthodox churches are the ones that have to help us! So I don't think it's at all odd that so many Eastern Catholics are leaving and joining the Orthodox church.
2003-11-12 09:37 | User Profile
[QUOTE=perun1201]As a Byzantine Catholic, I see first hand some of the guff the Roman rite gives us and even how poorly treated we are within the Church.[/QUOTE]
Ah my apologies, I was having a little fun with you under the impression you were Orthodox
I'm Catholic myself and agree the Church has little right to be smug at Anglican difficulties. I know some folks from South America who say exactly the same as you: Christians are deserting Catholicism in droves and heading for other churches
The Church is in retreat on all fronts and will soon disappear completely if it continues on its present course