← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Mithras
Thread ID: 10857 | Posts: 14 | Started: 2003-10-31
2003-10-31 16:55 | User Profile
From the latest:
[url]http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/News/Trifkovic/NewsST103103.html[/url]
Chroniclesââ¬â¢ Srdja Trifkovic complains of Italy losing its nerve on the illegal immigration issue. He then goes on to talk about a ââ¬Åforecastââ¬Â by Jean Raspail who
[QUOTE]predicted a conquest of Europe by Third World boat people supported by the enemy withinââ¬âpoliticians, professors, talking heads, churchmenââ¬âwho had already quashed in the minds of young Europeans any vestige of ââ¬Åthe triumphant joy at feeling oneself to be part of humanityââ¬â¢s finestââ¬Â and replaced it with a ââ¬Åmonstrous cancerââ¬Â of self-loathing. ââ¬ÅIt wasnââ¬â¢t a matter of tender heart,ââ¬Â Raspail says, ââ¬Åbut a morbid, contagious excess of sentiment.ââ¬Â Sr. Pisanu could have been his model.
Population explosion and utter dysfunctionality of most Third World societies, coupled with the spiritual enfeeblement and demographic collapse of Europe, has produced predictable results. In all creation disease and frailty invite predators. Both the loss of the will to define and defend oneââ¬â¢s native soil, and the loss of the desire to procreate, send an alluring signal to the rest: come, for no Western nation has the guts to shed bloodââ¬âalien or its ownââ¬âin the name of its own survival. As Raspail says his Afterward,
ââ¬Åthe proliferation of other races dooms our race, my race, irretrievably to extinction in the century to come, if we hold fast to our present moral principles. No other race subscribes to these moral principlesââ¬âif that is really what they areââ¬âbecause they are weapons of self-annihilation.ââ¬Â[/QUOTE]
All this from someone who utterly condemns all forms of racialism, is understandable when we come to the disturbing and most idiotic portion of the article, as so:
[QUOTE]Those ââ¬Åmoral principlesââ¬Â are traced by Igor Shafarevich, in his Socialist Phenomenon, to Utopianismââ¬âthe yearning for manââ¬â¢s God-like absolute freedom that cannot stop short of the freedom to choose death over life.[/QUOTE]
What was that? Because we have the desire to be free we are therefore self-loathing! That is absurd! In the first place, all the Utopians I know are hardcore folkists. And the idea that alien invaders should be shot at was suggested in a document written by an [U]Utopian[/U] several months before Bossi had suggested it. It is partially that Utopianism is an inspiring and driving force that folkists are gaining ground.
If Trifkovic had any sense of freedom he would name the real enemy. For it is traced to mental slavery enforced by the Jews and the Communists.
Paleo-conservatism is supposed to champion liberty and race.
[I]Chronicles[/I] however adds endlessly to the heap of more conditioning and guilt about racial awareness. For long, [I]Chronicles[/I] had been limping. Now it is dead and buried. Mr. Trifkovic expects us to run around stamping out a faceless enemy in the form of ââ¬Åall those who cherish freedomââ¬Â even the freedom to preserve our identity and to fend off an invasion which the government refuses to do. I suppose Mr. Trifkovic wants only partial freedom thus barring any tendency to live free from the multiracial nightmare. ââ¬ÅSo long as that multiracial nightmare has but one cultureââ¬Â he declares!
No, Mr. Bonehead, Utopianism is about duty, sacrifice and the mental and physical ability to endure under threat of persecutionââ¬âsomething that spineless Mr. Trifkovic cannot even begin to understand. So letââ¬â¢s all join in and ââ¬Åblame it on freedomââ¬Â when it is simply the moral cowardice in refusing to accept racial unity.
2003-10-31 19:20 | User Profile
After Joe Sobran's pieces disappeared from the mag in mid-2002, I decided not to renew, and Francis seems more blunt in his syndicated columns than in the writing he does for Chronicles, so why bother? You can get better content for free (making a donation if you please) from VDARE and Sobran's website
2003-10-31 21:11 | User Profile
Paleo-conservatism is supposed to champion liberty and race.
Paleocon-ism is political FIRST, and racial second or third. Hence why I am not a paleo anymore.
:dry:
2003-10-31 22:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]From the latest:
Those ââ¬Åmoral principlesââ¬Â are traced by Igor Shafarevich, in his Socialist Phenomenon, to Utopianismââ¬âthe yearning for manââ¬â¢s God-like absolute freedom that cannot stop short of the freedom to choose death over life.
What was that? Because we have the desire to be free we are therefore self-loathing! That is absurd! In the first place, all the Utopians I know are hardcore folkists. And the idea that alien invaders should be shot at was suggested in a document written by an [U]Utopian[/U] several months before Bossi had suggested it. It is partially that Utopianism is an inspiring and driving force that folkists are gaining ground.
No, Mr. Bonehead, Utopianism is about duty, sacrifice and the mental and physical ability to endure under threat of persecutionââ¬âsomething that spineless Mr. Trifkovic cannot even begin to understand. So letââ¬â¢s all join in and ââ¬Åblame it on freedomââ¬Â when it is simply the moral cowardice in refusing to accept racial unity.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, as far as your criticism of Chronicles, I think you have basically lost it. I am curious though where as a NSer you get this basically very un-fascist doctrine of utopianism. Do any others champion it?
2003-11-01 14:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Firstly, as far as your criticism of Chronicles, I think you have basically lost it. [/QUOTE]
:lol: Care to enlighten me as to why you think this?
[QUOTE]I am curious though where as a NSer you get this basically very un-fascist doctrine of utopianism. Do any others champion it?[/QUOTE]
I never said I was a National Socialist. I did say that I was a Utopian and Folkish Nationalist. How is it that you think Utopism is "very unfascist" and what Utopist doctrine are you referring to exactly?
2003-11-01 22:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]:lol: Care to enlighten me as to why you think this?
You mean why you've lost it? I don't know, I'm a conservative, not a psychiatrist.
[quote=Mithras]I never said I was a National Socialist.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck ....... [quote=Mithras]I did say that I was a Utopian and Folkish Nationalist. How is it that you think Utopism is "very unfascist" and what Utopist doctrine are you referring to exactly?[/QUOTE]
I can't make you into a conservative overnight. You've got a long ways to go. Read through my signature carefully for starters.
2003-11-02 13:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]You mean why you've lost it? I don't know, I'm a conservative, not a psychiatrist. [/QUOTE]
Hmm, and yet the big man that you are can diagnose me and insult me and then turn tail and run when asked for an explanation. Telling someone they're insane when you disagree with their opinions is a liberal tactic not a conservative one.
:yucky:
2003-11-05 03:45 | User Profile
Chronicles does still has some good stuff on thier Website. Isn't Thomas Fleming an active Catholic who hold some of the Church's Liberal ideas. Paleo-conservatism needs to based on the ideas of Folk-Culture and Godliness. The Catholic Church of today is Marxist! On the good side; Samuel Francis is still with Chronicles and writting great stuff.
2003-11-05 16:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]Chronicles does still has some good stuff on thier Website. Isn't Thomas Fleming an active Catholic who hold some of the Church's Liberal ideas. Paleo-conservatism needs to based on the ideas of Folk-Culture and Godliness. The Catholic Church of today is Marxist! On the good side; Samuel Francis is still with Chronicles and writting great stuff.[/QUOTE]
Francis and Fleming are good. Gottfried and Trifkovic are bad. The rest are rather boring. The bad apples set bad examples which lead to ruin.
2003-11-05 22:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras] No, Mr. Bonehead, Utopianism is about duty, sacrifice and the mental and physical ability to endure under threat of persecutionââ¬âsomething that spineless Mr. Trifkovic cannot even begin to understand. So letââ¬â¢s all join in and ââ¬Åblame it on freedomââ¬Â when it is simply the moral cowardice in refusing to accept racial unity.[/QUOTE]Bad choice of words. Utopianism is generally understood to be a desire for an impossible ideal society. Utopianism as such doesn't imply "duty, sacrifice and the mental and physical ability to endure under threat of persecution". Maybe a better word to have used for that would be "idealism".
As to Chronicles, it has never been forthright about the racial issue (always cloaking it behind cultural and political issues), and Fleming has always attacked white nationalists (whom he confuses, stereotypically, with anti-Christian paganism as such, and with pro-Lincoln anti-states rights nationalism, which is quite untrue of most white nationalists).
Fleming isn't going to allow "his" branch of paleo-conservatism to go off in a white nationalist direction, that was pretty clear long ago.
But then, hasn't someone already declared paleo-conservatism to be dead?
2003-11-05 22:24 | User Profile
grep14w wrote:
But then, hasn't someone already declared paleo-conservatism to be dead?
That is very true -- paleoism is dead in its present, "Joos? What Joos? Where?" form. If paleos Name The Joo regularly, then it will become alive again. But it cannot continue in its present, wimpy form and remain legit. Sorry. Do you pull weeds in your front yard by just plucking the top parts of the weeds? Nope. Ya gots to get the WHOLE ROOT, my friends. The Whole Root. If'n ya don't, yer jus' bouncing....er....heh, heh....beachballs....[sorry to use that term again, but it fits, don't it now? Yup...."gimme the ball, Buffy!"..."Sure thing, Biff!" bounce...]
:holiday: :holiday:
2003-11-05 22:27 | User Profile
Dr. Francis's short columns are a great tool for those starting to think about racial matter and the only thing that The Chronicles has had worth reading that I can think of. Grep14w is unfortunately right about Flemming who strikes me as a perfect indication of what's wrong with modern, mainstream American paleo-conservatism. Partly I think his stereotypical condemnation of racialism is based upon him not knowing anything about it, partly it's a result of his craven fear of offending the powers that be and the rest is a result of his theocratic disposition. Within European New Right cirlces ultra traditionalist Catholics, Heathens and agnostics work side by side for future generations which is the only option open to our side given the highly secularized nature of society. If Flemming read Dr. Sunic and Dr. DeBenoist he could learn a great deal about why what passes for conservatism has done so poorly in the states as well something about forming coalitions which is what all politics (even authoritian variants) is about and perhaps he could do better as a result.
Beyond Dr. Francis's columns I can't think of anything I have seen worth reading in the two dozen or so copies of The Cronicles I have read.
2003-11-05 23:08 | User Profile
triskelion:
Dr. Francis's short columns are a great tool for those starting to think about racial matter and the only thing that The Chronicles has had worth reading that I can think of.
I consider his syndicated columns to be more candid, and they can be read for free on VDARE. [url=http://www.manews.org]Middle American News[/url] also runs them and is a great publication that can be bought in bulk and distributed in hard copy to wake people up.
2003-11-05 23:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=grep14w]Bad choice of words. Utopianism is generally understood to be a desire for an impossible ideal society. [/QUOTE]
No it is not. That is how an anti-utopian would define it as.
As for your comment on Chronicles, the point I made is that Trifkovic is now anti-freedom which goes against what traditional conservatives stand for.