← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · martel
Thread ID: 10650 | Posts: 122 | Started: 2003-10-22
2003-10-22 02:33 | User Profile
Overthrow.com and VNN Parting Ways Relationship To End
10/21/2003 7:01:53 PM Discuss this story in the forum Bill White
Site Announcement -- Overthrow and ShopWhite are parting ways with VanguardNewsNetwork. We are working on an agreement to do so peaceably, though if this becomes ugly, you will get all the juicy details.
The bottom line is that VNN and some of its principles are having a lot of problems -- legally, financially, politically and personally. Because I was given charge of managing the business aspects of the site, there are those who wish to place the blame for all of those problems, including the personal ones, upon me -- as if I have not met some obligation to them -- and I cannot work in an environment where no one wants to address issues -- like the lawsuits that are likely going to shut the site down simply because they are not being defended -- and instead everyone wants to blame me like some nigger on welfare blaming the white man for being broke.
So, that said, our partnership will be ending, and I wish Alex and Vic luck.
Emailed to you by:
Libertarian Socialist News ATTN: Bill White, Editor Post Office Box 12244 Silver Spring, MD 20908
[url]http://www.overthrow.com[/url]
2003-10-22 12:50 | User Profile
Stuck a press-card in my fedora and went to the source on this.
[I]Alex; Doubtless you're aware that your "friend" Bill White is now publicly predicting VNN's imminent collapse. Since very little he says can or should be taken at face value, I'll ask you instead: is this a load of sh*t, or is VNN on the brink?
Il Ragno [/I]
[B]IR -- Load of sh*t.
Lot going on that will be clearer in the next 24 hours.
Bottom line is at the end of the day, VNN will be standing, the forum will return, and we will be 100% free of Bill White.
I will probably put out a press release later tomorrow and would appreciate if you would circulate it to OD and other interested parties.
A.[/B]
As always, his response was quick, straightforward and without rancor or irritability of any kind. (And, contrary to popular opinion, he exhibits not a whit of ill-will towards this venue.)
And now that we've all breathed a sigh of relief....
I'm not going to bash Bill White for releasing the above statement since I'm not privy to what went on between Overthrow and VNN. Like most VNN readers, I had strong trepidations about this "marriage" from the beginning but I was hoping for a Happy Ending regardless.
Having said that, it seems to me that a Linder/White parting of the ways is the Happiest Ending we're going to get out of this. Alex has already bucked some long odds keeping the page up this long in the Age of Ashcroft; I'd like to think he can emerge from a brief liason with Mr White intact as well.
2003-10-22 12:54 | User Profile
VNN should just start attacking Strom, the NA, and Stormfront. That is certain to fix everything.
2003-10-22 14:47 | User Profile
Well at least Bill White's Journalist integrity remains intact: "Mueller Backs VNN?: Homosexual Nazi Involvement?"; "Paul Wolfowitz Ate My Hamster!". I wonder what he will re-invent himself as next, probably an anti-racist.
2003-10-22 15:48 | User Profile
VNN: WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?
Why have we gone back to our original format? Simple. Bill White has locked us out of the new house Marc Moran hired him to build for us. He doesn't want us countering his smears, so he changed the password on the database that we have to go through to upload the site. So instead we have gone around the database, and will upload directly onto the server as we used to. Bill White may bluster and print lies and make threats and try to sabotage. Possibly he will succeed. But whatever he does to try to thwart us, it will only be temporary. VNN did exist, does exist, and will continue to exist. It will continue to grow and expand steadily as it has from day one. We will be bringing the forum back before the end of the year, you have my word on it.
In times of trouble, it is good to reflect on what created the problems in the first place. My reflection leads me to blame myself. I should have stepped in immediately when Marc Moran, without my foreknowledge, contracted with Bill White. My only defense is that I did not fully appreciate White's complete lack of loyalty to anything or body but himself, his complete lack of scruples, and most disturbingly of all his delusionality. His attempts to screw up a site you all visit and look forward to daily require no explanation. The executive summary here is that this guy was paid tens of thousands of dollars to build new VNN and ShopWhite. The money was utterly wasted. The same thing could have been accomplished using free software. With all that money in his pocket, you might expect at the least that White would bow out gracefully when it became apparent that our mutual venture ShopWhite could not survive readers' and potential users' legitimate distrust of him, and their extremely well grounded fear that their private credit card information would be spread all over the 'Net due to his technical incompetence or carelessness. All I can say is that I am sick over what has happened, and that as of this moment VNN completely severs any relationship with William White. The general opinion of Bill White is correct. To those who warned me, what can I say? I was wrong, and now I'm picking off the flea.
[url]http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/[/url]
That's not Linder's writing style. VNN appears to have been hacked.
It looks as if Overthrow.com may have been hacked as well.
2003-10-22 16:31 | User Profile
As ever, Bill White doesn't disappoint. He reminds me more and more of the Billy Mumy character in IT'S A GOOD LIFE: the willful telekinetic brat who makes life a living hell for others simply because he can.
[QUOTE][B]If Anyone Knows Alex Linder, Please Give Him Some Advice[/B] Open Letter For Assistance
10/22/2003 9:59:51 AM Discuss this story in the forum Bill White
Commentary -- Hello everyone: I really don't want to fight with Alex Linder and the pseudonymonous Vic Wolzek over VanguardNewsNetwork, and I'm not going to, not least of all because they have no leverage to fight with, but before they get screwed over, I wish someone who knows them out there would talk some sense into them.
First, I own all legal rights to the name VanguardNewsNetwork. I advised Alex Linder in August to take steps to secure his right to operate under that name independently of the lawyers, who ended up falling through after our sponsor withdrew, and Alex declined. When I discovered he had still not taken such steps more than a month later, I filed the paperwork and secured the rights in my name. Ironically, I was planning to talk to him, after filing the Overthrow incorporation paperwork, and transfer those rights to him; this disagreement broke out before I could do so.
What I have asked Alex and Vic to do is to make an agreement terminating our business relationship, stating that they and I don't owe each other any money and don't have any claims against the other, that we agree not to discuss each other in public, and that I agree to assign to Alex all rights to VNN and waive any claims I may have now or in the future.
Rather than agree, I've gotten "**** you" letters from both Alex and Vic. As a result, I've temporarily suspended both of them from their positions as employees of VNN pending an agreement, and I've told them that if we cannot reach an agreement I will assume operations of VNN and either hire new editors or sell it. Now I don't want to do that -- all I want is to turn VNN over to Alex and divest myself of it, but he refuses to agree not to sue me if I do so ... Someone please talk to him.
Second, there is a dispute over the ShopWhite money which has been instigated by Vic Wolzek. I never really liked Vic Wolzek, not least of all because I don't know who he really is. When ShopWhite launched, I offered a deal to Vic and Alex to divide the money and told them that in order to do it I needed their 1099 info, since, legally, I own ShopWhite as a sole proprietorship. Vic Wolzek decided this was a conspiracy to discover his real identity and refused to provide it, and then persuaded Alex that I just asked for this info to hassle them and persuaded Alex to refuse to provide it as well. As a result, I have money set aside for them to claim as soon as I get their 1099 info -- but instead of giving me their information, they have sent me the demand that I pay them exclusively in cash anonymously and off the books -- something I have refused to do, not least of all because its illegal, and everyone is looking for something to stick us with that's illegal.
So in short, because Vic and Alex have decided that somehow they are permitted to operate in this world without any legal paperwork, they have refused to accept 1) rights to VNN; 2) the transfer to them of rights to VNN; and, 3) money that is due to them.
If there is anyone out there that can persuade them to accept my deal, please do so. Otherwise, I don't know how much longer VNN is going to continue to operate.
Bill[/QUOTE]
What does this all "mean"? Search me. I find it amusing that Mr Full Disclosure only turns out to have serious ethical problems with Linder/Wolzek [I]after [/I] the shit hits the fan - not before. You would think noncompliance with the 1099 rule would've killed this 'marriage' at the outset but apparently Bill White's ethics float like a parfait topping.
Similarly, Alex should have followed a simple rule here: if you don't trust your 'partner' enough to turn over your personal tax info to him, DON'T GET IN BED WITH THE GUY. That the financial fulcrum of this botch was Marc ("I'm really and truly sorry...now that I'm in trouble") Moran should have further chilled the deal. To my knowledge, [I]Alex [/I] provided Marc with his podium, not White....so how White got worked into this continues to mystify me. Indeed, Moran's plummet from grace dovetails neatly with Bill White becoming his public champion. Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.
In any event, we all know how this script will play out - ever-more-hysterical screeds on OVERTHROW alluding to homosexuality, government informers, theft and embezzlement, etc. For a gentile, White shows a remarkable aptitude for seizing upon time-honored Jewish tactics (to wit: claiming he has only sought an amicable divorce - while making this claim in the middle of a VNN-is-going-down 'exclusive'.) Help, help! cried the rabbi, while punching the gentile in the face.
2003-10-22 16:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Polish Noble] That's not Linder's writing style. VNN appears to have been hacked. [/QUOTE]
No it hasn't being hacked, unless you count Bill's management style as hacking (not the word I'd choose for it). Linder has several styles but the author of the above piece could well be Vic Wolzek or another member of the editorial staff.
Read Il Ragno's correspondence with Linder.
2003-10-22 16:56 | User Profile
Obviously it has not been hacked. Whether or not it's been ghosted for Alex is another matter.Can't blame the guy if he's waiting for the Advil to kick in and dissipate his migraine today.
2003-10-22 17:40 | User Profile
Bill White appraoches zero credibility with me. Alex Linder approaches total. Let the healing begin.
2003-10-22 17:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Obviously it has not been hacked. Whether or not it's been ghosted for Alex is another matter.Can't blame the guy if he's waiting for the Advil to kick in and dissipate his migraine today.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/default.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/[/url]
If White wished, he could close down VNN by simply turning off the server.
Something smells fishy.
2003-10-22 17:43 | User Profile
I was a complete agnostic on the subject of Bill White when this controversy began, having known absolutely nothing about him. It seems the antis were right. Good riddance.
2003-10-22 17:57 | User Profile
Using the principle "past behavior is the most accurate predictor of the future one", the former anti-racist Bill White is a no-go.
2003-10-22 18:07 | User Profile
This looks like some nasty business. Granted all I know is what I'm reading here, but if White has possession of all VNN, then why doesn't Alex just sever all ties and begin fresh doing his own thing? Sure there are the archives, but I think the main attraction of VNN was Alex's running commentary on the news of the day, so in reality I would imagine 90+% of all activity at VNN was related to that simple feature. He could start it up today for less than 20 bucks and never look back.
2003-10-22 18:12 | User Profile
Hitherto, I always refrained from criticizing White, finding the endless back and forth tiresome. Of course I suspected his motives, but I preferred to give him the benefit of the doubt because he at least slammed Hyman. But now, it's crystal clear that White is nothing but a shit-stirring provocateur. He simply will not get along with anybody. At least Linder is rid of the egomaniac.
One of the mysteries of the universe is how this punk got control of the name VNN.....
2003-10-22 19:19 | User Profile
I believe it's a matter of public record (Internet version) that Marc Moran was the matchmaker. Moran is a good guy and may not have known... I really can't speculate. I guess when you're doing flaming anti-Semitic commentary, finding respectable technical help is a tricky matter. Early on Alex had a former drug addict (self-admitted) lesbian woman somewhere in upstate New York doing those kick-ass graphics for VNN, then that came to a halt. What I'd advise the Big A is to concentrate on long-term, trustworthy help and advice, back-up plans on top of back-up plans, lawyers, guns and money. I'm sure he knows all this, but I wonder if he doesn't put a tad too much faith in his ability to do it all on his own. He's obviously got brains and talent out the ying-yang, very headstrong, but people like that tend to come up a little short in the in the production, marketing and legal niceties categories.
Victor Wolzek, pseudononymous or not, has been a steady force, good to see.
VNN won't last forever, but I expect Alex to keep cranking for a good while. Man, what a ride it's been so far.
2003-10-22 19:54 | User Profile
Funny but I get the opposite take. Pare it down, Alex, pare it down. Nobody can provide a 'better' VNN than you (and your readers), so beware of alliances with blowhards promising to take you on five-year missions to new galaxies.
I'm not jumping on the told-you-so bandwagon, so consider mine a voice of gentle reminder. Before Bill White, before the NA 'coup', VNN was merely the most remarkable and galvanizing force in the WN community - hell, it at least [I]doubled [/I] that community - all on its wing-and-a-prayer, spit-and-baling-wire lonesome. No 'marketing genius' or West Virginia infrastructure was necessary, just one eloquently angry (and funny!) voice empowering the rest of us to finally acknowledge our own suppressed anger - many of us for the first time in our lives. Clone a [I]thousand [/I] Bill Whites and the whole gang of them would never approach that kind of accomplishment.
If White insists on playing hardball with the VNN name, [I]let him have it[/I]. An acronym without its animating spirit is just three letters. Guilt a big check out of Moran, or run a Doles-like fundraiser for re-startup capital, pick another domain name and get back on your Palomino. Don't give the Whites and the Stroms a chance to dance a death-jig here, because the death they'll be celebrating is that of the Awakened White Man. Invest in an economy-sized bottle of Advil and get back to work. You have thousands of readers behind you - all the Whites and Stroms can counter with is [I]the Jewish slam-dunk of the small print. [/I] Intercourse em [I]both [/I] and the cotton ponies they rode in on.
2003-10-22 21:55 | User Profile
This whole white nationalist thing is a harvest of frustration. I hope Alex and Victor don't end up like Tom Paine.
2003-10-22 23:00 | User Profile
il ragno: "I'm not jumping on the told-you-so bandwagon, so consider mine a voice of gentle reminder. Before Bill White, before the NA 'coup', VNN was merely the most remarkable and galvanizing force in the WN community - hell, it at least doubled that community"
I don't mind gently reminding Alex that I warned him in the clearest of terms, privately at first, then openly on VNN -- to his credit -- about Bill White's lack of character long before White had wormed his way into the bosom of Vanguard News Network. I also had warned Dr. Pierce of Billy Roper's dangerously cozy, even symbiotic relationship with Bill White, the opportunistic, anti-racist troublemaker when Billy was the Alliance's Deputy Membership Coordinator, organizing some rallies in D.C. for the Alliance and used White to get the anti-racist counterdemonstrators stirred up and in attendance at demonstrations. Pierce should have nipped that ill-advised liason in the bud, but didn't. White soon started attacking the National Alliance with all sorts of unsubstantiated rumors as if he were the new Harold Covington, White nationalist commentator extraordinaire.
Alex is blessed with a rare combination of talent and energy and focus for our cause, but being a stiff-necked, independent-minded type -- bless his hate-filled heart -- doesn't tend to take advice from others, even if it is tested and true, and he apparently isn't the best judge of character either.
BTW, I also warned Alex about notorious Harold Covington after I saw an innocuous article over Covington's byline appear on VNN one day. Alex, to this day, still seems to think that Covington is a writer of merit who deserves to be heard, while knowing full well that Weird Harold is a sick liar, a fraud and the most documented, ongoing disruptive influence in the history of the White resistance movement over the last 30 years. The lying bastard owes me $150,000+ and has been on the run from my libel judgment against him for five years, yet Alex thinks Tub o' Lard is a "brilliant wordsmith," or some such shit. If it is indeed true that our heretofore fringe "WN community," as you call it, doubles in a couple of years due to VNN, it should then reasonably follow that all these newbies should be innoculated against the likes of known frauds, provocateurs and malicious smear artists ASAP, NOT be exposed to their confusing, contradictory, demoralizing poison pens on VNN. Alex also needs to understand that in his position as a beacon and an inspiration to all these thousands of new White racial loyalists, he has a responsibility to expose and warn them not only about Jews, and neocon and conservative frauds, but ESPECIALLY of characters who pretend to be "of us," like Covington and White and Richard Barrett, and a host of other less than sincere racists.
We are in a serious war. Shakeups are good in our ranks. Stability is nice, longevity in an institution is to be admired, but stagnation and incompetent leadership sucks! The strong will never follow the weak. Everything will eventually seek its correct level in the big picture, or our genotype will go the way of the Dodo bird. Dr. Pierce's body of work will not die on the vine just because his baby, the National Alliance, is imploding. Shakeups are good. Things are brought to a head and are dealt with. Alex is a survivor. I will support his outreach and hope he learns to listen to some of us oldtimers who have already been where he is trying so hard to go. He can avoid many of the pitfalls and mistakes and dead ends that we have experienced in dealing with the Jews and their collaborators.
Will Williams - Raleigh NC Cc'd: Alex Linder
2003-10-22 23:08 | User Profile
White Will:
Sounds like you are a man who has 'been there/done that' in WN circles. Welcome to OD.
:king:
2003-10-23 01:33 | User Profile
Franco:
Sounds like you are a man who has 'been there/done that' in WN circles. Welcome to OD.
Thanks, Franco. It's nice to make your acquaintance. Yeah, I've been in "this thang" of ours, seriously, for a while, and have had the pleasure of working with many of our best activists and writers and leaders and other thought criminals and their families. I see there are good observers and writers and teachers here at "Original Dissent," honing their skills. There are a few of us enlightened ol' fools who dared to be "Nazi" way before National Socialism became cool, or, I should say, before it became so easy to be "Nazi." Being anti-Xian, I carry a double whammy in "our" thoroughly judaized, nigrafied American society. I'm in elite company, however, as a strictly biological racist.
I love your "hate is truth" sig. In my own search for truth over the years I naturally matriculated from a locally-based group here in NC, my first racist organization, one that was making a lot of "White Revolution!" noise in the mid-1980's, the White Patriot Party, on through a few other erstwhile orgs, to eventually work closely with Dr. Pierce, arguably our most sober, our most uncompromising hater, er, uh, truth-teller.
I miss Dr. Pierce dearly. I hate watching what he built so carefully being dismantled so irresponsibly, so unnecessarily, but I'm proud of those Alliance members who have "voted with their feet," as I have, and will wait with them until something better than Dr. Pierce's venerable National Alliance comes along. Or else we'll build it, new and improved, ourselves -- or, in the worst case if it is indeed written in the Book of Fate that the political atmosphere in this country has become so fouled by JOG's repressive COINTELPRO-like crap such as the "Patriot Act" for an aboveground, legal and viable organization that advocates for the exclusive interests of the White majority, THEN we all just blend in, build our White communities as best we can as sleeping Lone Wolves. That will be the Jew's biggest nightmare. We'll see who loses his rights when it comes down to that, won't we? Imagine an informed and aroused and angry White majority with its back to the wall, pitted against the anti-White JOG. Hitler was a compassionate pansy compared to the hard ass who we need to lead our people next time around in the final battle with Jewry. Glory Days!! We will finally be out of these listless pre-revolutionary times and into the real thing. The Yids forget that we hapless goyim still outnumber them at least 30:1 (not to mention the 1.2 billion Muslims who hate their Jewish guts and who we can cut loose on 'em in Israel once we get the Yids here off White America's collective neck)-- SPREAD THE GOOD NEWS! -- and that we will enjoy both a groundswell of popular support and foreign aid from European and other WNs worldwide for the cause of White survival, renewal, expansion and advancement.
It's Great to be White! |/ | White Will
2003-10-23 02:44 | User Profile
Bill White's rapid rise was interesting. He was writing articles for Pravda's English edition that were quite good. During that time he even posted with us on the old SFOF and he seemed bright and easily-offended.
How odd that White's overreaching here is coincident with the revival of that wonderful old chestnut, What Makes Sammy Run?. I'm not saying White would make an excellent Sammy Glick, but he can't help but remind us of the basic character: A hustler with no real principles and a finger in every pot.
Anyway it's always bad news when WNs snipe at each other and lately it's also the only news. If for no other reason than aesthetic, I strongly hope Al Linder keeps the VNN site under its old style. It looks good and pulpy.
2003-10-23 09:28 | User Profile
I stopped reading VNN a while after Bill White got his dirty hands all over it - something about it just went downhill.
Actually, my first thought when I saw the headline was "good, it's about time" but I think the damage has been done. Too bad too, since at one time VNN was something worth reading.
2003-10-23 15:43 | User Profile
IR, I hereby take back the word "marketing" from my comments... Alex has that down, as the success of VNN shows. But I stand by my observation, which appears to be seconded by WW's, that even a genius (and I'm not being facetious when I say that) can use help and guidance. Not that I'm qualified myself, mind you, I'm just calling it like I see it, and because VNN has been such an influence on my thinking and my life, I care very much what happens to it. It's all well and good to be in thrall over an obvious talent, but if Alex has to shut down for financial, legal or associate entanglement reasons, all the baling wire in Missouri won't do us any good.
2003-10-23 16:34 | User Profile
What a load of crap!
Linder has far more to atone for than he could cover with a couple of paragraphs on VNN.
You all act as though Linder bears no responsibility for the damage he did when he was partnered with White for six long months, bless the poor little misguided genius, it was all White's doing.
You chumps. I could smell White a mile off and Linder has the same reek about him. What do you see in your crystal ball right now, Il Ragno?
I don't trust that little wiseass as far as I can throw him and I'd like to measure that distance someday.
None of you all better trust him either, mark my words, he'll wind up in the federal witness protection program. Hey - it's a pretty good living.
2003-10-23 17:30 | User Profile
First, before I answer questions...I really [I]like [/I] the new soothing-blue color scheme here.
Secondly, my original point was that VNN's original (and considerable) momentum was achieved when it was a perfectly serviceable text-based page (though 'crummy-looking' by the standard of splashy graphics and PayPal buttons). People were amazed by the [I]written content [/I] of VNN, and [B]not [/B] by any decorative bells & whistles it may or may not have come packaged with.
So if this Bill White business has seemingly yanked the rug out from under Linder's life-work, Alex needs to stay focused on what brought him his original notoriety and fan-base, and that is his authorial voice: his unique method of seeing and reporting the world around him...i.e., [I]his brain[/I]. That style of his, combining high and low-brow approaches (often in the same paragraph!) was completely [I]sui generis [/I] (and one of the reasons that Alex's attacks on the NA were spot-on: they had not only failed to come up with such an approach themselves, but actively denigrated anyone who took it upon themselves to try it). In fact, given the ill-fated windmill-tilting of the past few months (the NA coup, ShopWhite, etc) it was Alex's writing that kept people coming back [I]despite [/I] their misgivings over his recent alliances and flawed strategies. And that is the one thing that Bill White can never take from him or legally bollix up. Luckily for Alex, it is the key component of VNN...the rest is racialist confetti that never mattered inthe first place.
I.e., if I really and truly need a used VHS of FEMALIEN or MY STEPMOTHER IS A VAMPIRE to make my life complete, I can find more convenient (and safer) venues than ShopWhite to achieve this satori. But if I seek acid commentary on the news of the day that highlights the Jews pulling the strings from behind the curtain, VNN is gonna be my first (and often only) choice.
Now, Jack Boot, I have to confess I'm not totally clear on who your ire is directed at. When you write
[QUOTE]I don't trust that little wiseass as far as I can throw him and I'd like to measure that distance someday. None of you all better trust him either, mark my words, he'll wind up in the federal witness protection program. [/QUOTE]
are you talking about White or Linder? By the way, I have NEVER referred to Linder as a 'genius' - I try to reserve that for actual geniuses like DaVinci, Galileo, Beethoven, etc - but Alex is undeniably an inspired and inspiring writer of some electrifying prose.
I swapped PMs with a regular here yesterday on this topic; and, while I gave him my word I'd protect his text from public view, I made no such promise about my own response to him, part of which went:
[QUOTE]....as a one-man show, Linder cannot get himself waist-deep in grand expansion projects that, by their very nature, are going to divert his energies from Editorial into Administrative.
It's also worth noting that when one of these pipe dreams falls through...the NA 'coup', for instance....there has to be a sobering toll taken on Alex personally, and that can't help but be reflected in the content of VNN. At the end of the day, he's just a human being like you or I, and just as subject to ups and downs. (That he's continually forged ahead in spite of whatever slings and arrows he may already have endured speaks volumes on his tough-mindedness and dedication.) VNN - unlike every other WN site out there - is almost 100% personality-driven. It couldn't have made the Alexa strides it [I]has[/I] without being so constituted. If some of Alex's setbacks this past year has seemed to slow or derail VNN's momentum, guess what? He's earned the right to some downtime now and then. I certainly could not have kept up the kind of pace he routinely does, and I have full faith in his ability to rebound.[/QUOTE]
That's what I believe and if it turns out I'm wrong, then I'll still be indebted to him for what he's managed to pull off thus far. We all are, or should be.
2003-10-23 17:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=jack_boot]None of you all better trust him either, mark my words, he'll wind up in the federal witness protection program. Hey - it's a pretty good living.[/QUOTE]
That's overheated. And I'm not sure what "damage" you're referring to. If you're sore about his attacks on Strom and NA, I pretty much classify that as out-of-character. I gather he was frustrated that NA didn't take a shine to him and let him run their media stuff, which he's said before (NV 119 or so) he investigated back when Pierce was alive. If that frustration led to some bullets fired in anger, well, that's human enough.
Ditto on the soft blue. Racially conscious websites: making minimal impact on world events but [I]lookin' good, baby.[/I]
2003-10-23 18:21 | User Profile
Bill White and Alex Linder are a couple of jerkoffs. Other than Kevin Alfred Strom, I cannot think of a less-relevant person than these two clowns. These fools live in a fantasy world in which they are famous revolutionaries who are reviled by ZOG and loved by the silent majority...when in reality, they are a bunch of work-shy rejects who play around on the internet all day and spew out worthless invective.
2003-10-23 18:30 | User Profile
No, but seriously....how do you [B]really [/B] feel?
2003-10-23 19:18 | User Profile
Checking in at VNN is usually the first thing I do in the morning. And whenever I can manage it I also stop in during the day to see whatââ¬â¢s what. For the most part, those I work with, my acquaintances, friends and family either buy into the PC suicide they have been force fed from birth and find my intimations odious, or politely let me rant and then go back to catalogue shopping.
The beliefs most of us share put us outside the system, and it is lonely there ââ¬â it is for me anyway. Because of Alex Linderââ¬â¢s intelligence, diligence, focus and courage, I know Iââ¬â¢m not alone in the views and feelings I have. Instead of grinding my teeth and bearing it, I can write this, learn from others, and perhaps begin to hope that there is some future for western civilization and for white people. And Iââ¬â¢m much clearer about why the world is the nightmare it is - again because of Mr. Linder, who seems to work day and night for us.
Mr. Linder made a mistake in trusting the loathsome Bill White? That is bad judgment for sure, but then again, it is bleak to live in a world where you canââ¬â¢t trust anyone, and where you canââ¬â¢t rely on the most natural thing in the world ââ¬â community. And besides being an expert at throwing bullshit, White used to write the interesting and intelligent piece once in a while, between the risible fantasies (didnââ¬â¢t the Iraqi Army conquer Cleveland and isnââ¬â¢t Hal Turner long since both closed down and dead?). At the time that Moran put Mr. Linder and White together, lots of people were fooled ââ¬â not just Alex Linder. By the time White had completely transformed into the grotesque parody of himself that he now is ââ¬â complete with pictures of his new car and breathless information about his palace in the most exclusive subdivision of East Opossum, Missouri ââ¬â Mr. Linder was irrevocably committed.
The third act of Rossiniââ¬â¢s William Tell ends with the community turning their back on a monster and pronouncing a solemn anathema on him. As far as Iââ¬â¢m concerned Bill White no longer exists ââ¬â and it is already very pleasant to live in a world from which that pitiful blowhard has disappeared.
I was all set to buy a bunch of choice history books over at abebooks. But on reflection I see that things ââ¬â even really nice things ââ¬â are easy. Iââ¬â¢d like to have the books, but theyââ¬â¢ll always be around and in contrast, I canââ¬â¢t live a day without the miracle of Vanguard News Network. So instead Iââ¬â¢ll send the money to Mr. Linder with my profound thanks, and live some history rather than read about the good old days.
If you can afford to help out, I imagine that this is the time to do it.
Best
2003-10-23 19:55 | User Profile
Walter, I do believe Morgan Kashden feels the same way.
2003-10-23 20:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gott]Checking in at VNN is usually the first thing I do in the morning. And whenever I can manage it I also stop in during the day to see whatââ¬â¢s what. For the most part, those I work with, my acquaintances, friends and family either buy into the PC suicide they have been force fed from birth and find my intimations odious, or politely let me rant and then go back to catalogue shopping.
The beliefs most of us share put us outside the system, and it is lonely there ââ¬â it is for me anyway. Because of Alex Linderââ¬â¢s intelligence, diligence, focus and courage, I know Iââ¬â¢m not alone in the views and feelings I have. Instead of grinding my teeth and bearing it, I can write this, learn from others, and perhaps begin to hope that there is some future for western civilization and for white people. And Iââ¬â¢m much clearer about why the world is the nightmare it is - again because of Mr. Linder, who seems to work day and night for us.
Mr. Linder made a mistake in trusting the loathsome Bill White? That is bad judgment for sure, but then again, it is bleak to live in a world where you canââ¬â¢t trust anyone, and where you canââ¬â¢t rely on the most natural thing in the world ââ¬â community. And besides being an expert at throwing bullshit, White used to write the interesting and intelligent piece once in a while, between the risible fantasies (didnââ¬â¢t the Iraqi Army conquer Cleveland and isnââ¬â¢t Hal Turner long since both closed down and dead?). At the time that Moran put Mr. Linder and White together, lots of people were fooled ââ¬â not just Alex Linder. By the time White had completely transformed into the grotesque parody of himself that he now is ââ¬â complete with pictures of his new car and breathless information about his palace in the most exclusive subdivision of East Opossum, Missouri ââ¬â Mr. Linder was irrevocably committed.
The third act of Rossiniââ¬â¢s William Tell ends with the community turning their back on a monster and pronouncing a solemn anathema on him. As far as Iââ¬â¢m concerned Bill White no longer exists ââ¬â and it is already very pleasant to live in a world from which that pitiful blowhard has disappeared.
I was all set to buy a bunch of choice history books over at abebooks. But on reflection I see that things ââ¬â even really nice things ââ¬â are easy. Iââ¬â¢d like to have the books, but theyââ¬â¢ll always be around and in contrast, I canââ¬â¢t live a day without the miracle of Vanguard News Network. So instead Iââ¬â¢ll send the money to Mr. Linder with my profound thanks, and live some history rather than read about the good old days.
If you can afford to help out, I imagine that this is the time to do it.
Best[/QUOTE] Mr. Gott, your letter is on money for me. I could have written a similiar letter and your letter will strike a cord with many who read it.. We live in a time when the when the destroyer's of Western Civilizaton control the Media, and daily pratice a double standard of LIE'S, distortion's, omission's, and flat out treason against U.S. and try to yell, that it's U.S. not the hate tribe with their patriotic media Junk. Any one who can read and think knows this. The Courts are nothing more than Money exchange house, with brute tyranny enforcer's on hand, white law is dead.. Say, the wrong "word" like a women with her Mother did in MI, and a Mexican Racist's who was affirmative action hired by the local sheriff, and hears this white women 48 years old say to her mother I wish these spic's would learn our langauge. She is arrested a charged and spends time in JAIL for a HATE crime by inpowered racist's. So Alex, trusted some one perhaps against in his own instict's, but still he is resistance to treason against U.S. out in front like Stone Wall Jackson, he is only one "Man".. NOT PAUL HARVEY..
2003-10-23 21:58 | User Profile
Walter E Kurtz: "Bill White and Alex Linder are a couple of jerkoffs. Other than Kevin Alfred Strom, I cannot think of a less-relevant person than these two clowns. These fools live in a fantasy world in which they are famous revolutionaries who are reviled by ZOG and loved by the silent majority...when in reality, they are a bunch of work-shy rejects who play around on the internet all day and spew out worthless invective."
"Work shy?" That's rich Mr. Kurtz. Forget the irrevalent interloper, Mr. White. Whatever differences Kevin and Alex have with each other are unfortunate and should have been dealt with privately, no doubt, but judging these two by their deeds alone, their selfless sacrifices as essentially unpaid volunteers, by the number of White folks they have educated and activated over the years, I'd say they are one-percenters, among the best of our best during this educational phase when we're trying to wake our people up. When I go on the 'Net I want information. "Worthless invective" aside (it's easy to skip over, BTW), the best and most convenient clearing house for a daily shot of the kind of information I'm after -- is VNN. The best place to send newly awakened Whites to put them on the path toward racial understanding and an unshakable racist world view is still, in my humble opinion, National Vanguard Books.
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with your own works for our cause. We know now who you think are clowns and whose work you don't like, Walter; whose work DO you like? Is there anyone you see who has it right and is worthy to follow? What's your plan?
Will Williams - Raleigh NC P.S. A friendly tip: If you want White racists to follow you, Walter, you might want to turn your ball cap around. Many in our circle of friends, around my neck of the woods, anyway, see that backwards ball cap thing as being sort of wiggerly. Maybe it's a regional thing, or generational, or just personal, but I wouldn't follow a White man anywhere if he wears his cap like some negro. He might as well have his hair in dreadlocks and be wearing some of those baggy pants with his ass crack showing, you know?
2003-10-23 23:21 | User Profile
To those of you who are castigating Alex Linder for his error in judgment in trusting Bill White, I would like to know how many of you haven't made mistakes in judgment during your life about the character of friends, associates, and (especially) family members. It seems to me that Alex's mistake was simply more public.
This episode also points out one of the perils of the internet. It can never replace personal contact. I was somewhat surprised to learn a few months ago that Linder had never personally met Mr. White and that all his dealings with him had been done electronically. Fortunately, I have had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Linder personally and I can attest that everything about him is genuine.
I am no longer a Christian, but there is a lot of wisdom in the admonition, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Rich Brooks
2003-10-23 23:43 | User Profile
He was partners with White, DesertFox, that goes far beyond an error in judgement. Together, the Katzenjammer Kidz did more damage to WN than Morris Dees, at least in terms of disunity, sullied reputations, and the out-and-out sabotage of the National Alliance.
Linder's just as dirty as White is.
And where is Linder going to go now? After he's vilified half the WN leadership? After the way he's treated Elisha Strom, mocking her like a whore, for no other reason than to needle her husband? Do you respect him for that? Where will he speak, what gatherings will he attend, where half the people there have not felt the sting of his insults and slander?
Unless he's bubbling over with apologies I can't imagine anywhere he'd be welcome.
I don't care how witty the little mudslinger is. I wouldn't cross the street to hear anything he's got to say. I find his behavior despicable.
2003-10-23 23:56 | User Profile
Bill White keeps talking about some kind of statement that Linder has posted on the internet concerning this situation. White hasn't linked Linder's statement to his website and it's not on VNN either. If anyone knows anything about this please post it thanks.
2003-10-23 23:59 | User Profile
Rich, I'm glad to see you chiming in.
I've been unstinting in my support of AL, but let us approach this rationally.
A lot of people warned Linder about White [I]then[/I]. (Granted, a lot of these 'seers' were loopy yobbos on the VNN forum, but it wasn't only them.) The gist of these warnings were not just "Bill White will screw you" but "Bill White is fu**ing [I]cancer[/I]", guaranteed to initiate the kind of things we're seeing now. White is maliciously lobbing the kind of scurrilous character-assassinations that - meritless though they may be - now HAVE to be addressed, and dispelled, before Bill White's noxious methane-cloud can be completely flensed from the memory of VNN.
Bill White is proving one thing,and that is how much easier it is to destroy through smirking innuendo and bogus sincerity than it is to build something. We both know that this is what White wants - he [I]wants [/I] Alex to respond, he [I]wants [/I] a counter-productive pissing contest to divert energy away from the site, he [I]glories[/I] in his self-styled [I]Shiva, Destroyer of Worlds [/I] routine. Without attaching his tentacles to his moral & intellectual superiors in some nebulous technical-adjunct capacity, what would Bill White [B]be [/B] but a tin-foil Napoleon darkly alluding to his CIA-spook father and his deep-cover 'political connections', in between posting dispatches from his failed campaign for dogcatcher of Montgomery County?
I'd say [U]hell yes[/U]; the people who tried in vain to warn Alex he was wandering blindfolded into oncoming traffic have every right to say [I]I told you so[/I]. The hard cold facts are that Alex has made not one but a series of serious errors in judgment lately, so those [I]I told you so[/I]s are coming anyway; no use in banging a gavel for order.
As a Mafioso acquaintance of mine is fond of saying, "Hey- whatever it is, [I]it is.[/I]" Meaning the only thing that matters [U]now [/U] is where we go from here. I'd rather see Alex take enough time off to review, renew and rededicate himself than to simply leap headfirst into a heated tit-for-tat with a scuttling termite who would love nothing more than to see him do [I]exactly [/I] that.
2003-10-24 03:02 | User Profile
Yes, what you have to say is quite true, but I know for a fact that Alex has been aware of the BW problem for a long time. Sometimes you are caught between a rock and a hard place and any advice that you move to safer ground is simply irrelevant.
No, I don't think the answer is for AL to take a time out. As I understand it right now, he is plowing ahead full steam to get everything back up to speed. He now realizes that it was not necessary to invest so much in the dubious technical products which BW was peddling, and it won't be so technically difficult to change over. Alex has never been a technical person, but out of necessity he's learning how to do a few of those things so he won't be so dependant on people like White. Let's give him all the encouragement we can.
After seeing all of the recent input on Original Dissent (not being a regular visitor), maybe we don't need a VNN Forum after all. Except for maybe not being able to use all the profanity we wish (without those ridiculous ***'s), I believe our people can express themselves quite adequately here and on Liberty Forum (and some other smaller WM forums) without the added headache and distraction to VNN which its own forum would inevitably bring.
Your writings are always stimulating, Il Ragno.
2003-10-24 03:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=DesertFox]After seeing all of the recent input on Original Dissent (not being a regular visitor), maybe we don't need a VNN Forum after all. Except for maybe not being able to use all the profanity we wish (without those ridiculous ***'s)[/QUOTE]
Just to clarify DF, since I converted the software to VBulletin I haven't entered any words into the profanity filter (except maybe the f word, I'd have to go check). So if you are seeing those ridiculous **s, they are being entered by our membership here of their own volition in respect to the guidelines I believe contribute to a higher level of discourse.
2003-10-24 04:15 | User Profile
I'm torn in that I'm a big believer in strategic use of profanity-for-effect, but I despise seeing it used thoughtlessly for chest-pounding emphasis. I can live with censorware that deletes profanity, because you shouldn't really need it to communicate an idea.
Rich, I don't mean 'take six months off', but I do mean that if [I]plowing straight ahead [/I] got Alex manacled to White before he could fully determine if it was a good idea in the first place, then he should 'count to ten' before leaping into a protracted rhetorical shoving match with him. I can't help but believe that Alex would've handled that NA situation in a profoundly different manner if not for White's being in the mix, ratcheting up the rhetoric and the bad feelings on all sides. Surely he has to understand that the result, too, might have been far different if not for the general perception that [I]if you take Linder, you get White, too.[/I]
This time, [I]think [/I] first....make sure your house is inorder and your ducks lined up before embarking on a course of action. [I]That's [/I] what I'm saying.
2003-10-24 05:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]I'm torn in that I'm a big believer in strategic use of profanity-for-effect, but I despise seeing it used thoughtlessly for chest-pounding emphasis. I can live with censorware that deletes profanity, because you shouldn't really need it to communicate an idea.
Rich, I don't mean 'take six months off', but I do mean that if [I]plowing straight ahead [/I] got Alex manacled to White before he could fully determine if it was a good idea in the first place, then he should 'count to ten' before leaping into a protracted rhetorical shoving match with him. I can't help but believe that Alex would've handled that NA situation in a profoundly different manner if not for White's being in the mix, ratcheting up the rhetoric and the bad feelings on all sides. Surely he has to understand that the result, too, might have been far different if not for the general perception that [I]if you take Linder, you get White, too.[/I]
This time, [I]think [/I] first....make sure your house is inorder and your ducks lined up before embarking on a course of action. [I]That's [/I] what I'm saying.[/QUOTE]
Agree with just about everything you say. I also hate gratuitous profanity, but I like the English language with a little spice as well. I don't think we are going to see a rhetorical shoving or shouting match, because Alex isn't going to fall into that trap again. As to the NA situation, it was probably necessary to expose the corrupt leadership for what it was, so perhaps White (or Weiss? HE wants to talk about pseudonyms?) served a useful purpose.
2003-10-24 06:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=jack_boot]He was partners with White, DesertFox, that goes far beyond an error in judgement. Together, the Katzenjammer Kidz did more damage to WN than Morris Dees, at least in terms of disunity, sullied reputations, and the out-and-out sabotage of the National Alliance.
Linder's just as dirty as White is.[/QUOTE]
White was a contractor, not a partner. Linder never surrendered editorial contol and did not believe he was surrendering legal ownership of VNN. I think he has been properly chastened by recent events and there is no need to rub further salt into his wounds.
[QUOTE]And where is Linder going to go now? After he's vilified half the WN leadership? After the way he's treated Elisha Strom, mocking her like a whore, for no other reason than to needle her husband? Do you respect him for that?[/QUOTE]
That "leadership" (if you are referering to the National Alliance) deserved to be villified, because the charges made by White, even if he is a disreputable individual, were essentially true. Strom's track record with women has not been good. Is it too blunt to say that he is now p***ywhipped, as most of the reports I've heard say that he is?
[QUOTE]Where will he speak, what gatherings will he attend, where half the people there have not felt the sting of his insults and slander?[/QUOTE]
Certainly not at Stormfront, since any comments critical of "The Gang of Four" are never allowed to see the light of day. A VNN thread was deleted yesterday shortly after I attempted to post.
[QUOTE]Unless he's bubbling over with apologies I can't imagine anywhere he'd be welcome.
I don't care how witty the little mudslinger is. I wouldn't cross the street to hear anything he's got to say. I find his behavior despicable.[/QUOTE]
No apologies to me are necessary. As a matter of fact, Alex Linder has bent over backwards during the past year not to make comments detrimental to White unity. He in fact encouraged many of us to join the National Alliance in spite of certain well-founded misgivings. Don't forget it was KAS (probably egged on by Elisha) who childishly tried to prevent AL from speaking at that meeting in St. Louis which precipitated their final blowup.
2003-10-24 07:41 | User Profile
Alex needs to refocus on what made VNN all the rage to begin with: the jew-incinerating blowtorch that is his scathing, hilarious, brilliant writing. Get back to basics with the site: forget the forum; they take too long to read through, and there are already some of good ones, like OD. Reader Mail is a far more satisfying read than the abortive VNN forum was anyway.
And I agree with IR about the way to handle White. This bastard exists to make trouble; being an agent of destruction affords him a spurious validation and recognition he otherwise could never hope to achieve. Refusing to engage in a prolonged pissing contest will infuriate him.
Onward and upward - with better judgment in the future.
2003-10-24 08:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hugh Lincoln]VNN won't last forever, but I expect Alex to keep cranking for a good while. Man, what a ride it's been so far.[/QUOTE]
Time to pull off to gas up, take a little rest, then... oh yes, [SIZE=3]Itz Coming![/SIZE] :hitler:
2003-10-24 09:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Will]A friendly tip: If you want White racists to follow you, Walter, you might want to turn your ball cap around. Many in our circle of friends, around my neck of the woods, anyway, see that backwards ball cap thing as being sort of wiggerly. Maybe it's a regional thing, or generational, or just personal, but I wouldn't follow a White man anywhere if he wears his cap like some negro.[/QUOTE]
Kurtzââ¬â¢s avatar is a photo of Johnny ââ¬ËMad Dogââ¬â¢ Adair, a loyalist gangster and all round wigger who has fled to Scotland after ordering the death of one too many fellow ââ¬Ëgangstasââ¬â¢. A common scenario among drug gangs like the UFF whose ââ¬Åonly crime is loyalismââ¬Â. Iââ¬â¢m afraid Kurtz may be living ââ¬Åin a fantasy world in which [he is among] famous revolutionariesââ¬Â.
2003-10-24 13:13 | User Profile
DesertFox, it was not my decision to dump the thread, and in fact I participated, as did another SF staffer.
Somebody else made that call, on the grounds that we've all had a bellyful of White/Linder. To keep the peace we don't overrule each other. So be it.
As for Linder, well, you have your standards for acceptable behavior and I have mine. I have no serious beef with you, or other WN willing to accept the fellow at face value. I do not accept him, and I will certainly never trust him.
I do resent your opinion of KAS, a friend of mine. You should meet him, talk to him, review his work, before you accept Linder's calumny regarding Kevin's character. You will find Linder's assessment to be false.
2003-10-24 13:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=jack_boot]I do resent your opinion of KAS, a friend of mine. You should meet him, talk to him, review his work, before you accept Linder's calumny regarding Kevin's character. You will find Linder's assessment to be false.[/QUOTE]
I found it to be spot on. Recent dealings with KAS through NationalVanguard.org have confirmed to me that KAS is more concerned with his personal ego than anything else. He doesn't seem to comprehend things which would seem obvious to most, and anyone critical of any one part of his work becomes his enemy. And the funny thing is, he has never written anything that has ever inspired me. He's overrated to say the least.
2003-10-24 15:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]"Paul Wolfowitz Ate My Hamster!". [/QUOTE]
He ate mine, too.
She loved it!!!!
Walter
2003-10-24 15:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]He ate mine, too.
She loved it!!!!
Walter[/QUOTE]
Jews will do anything for a buck.
2003-10-24 16:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]I found it to be spot on. Recent dealings with KAS through NationalVanguard.org have confirmed to me that KAS is more concerned with his personal ego than anything else. He doesn't seem to comprehend things which would seem obvious to most, and anyone critical of any one part of his work becomes his enemy. And the funny thing is, he has never written anything that has ever inspired me. He's overrated to say the least.[/QUOTE]
I'm one of the few people in this tiny racist cyber community, besides those who were at the recent St. Louis National Alliance regional conference, that is -- which I didn't attend, BTW -- who has actually physically met and talked to both Alex and Kevin. I happen to know that they are both good guys, sincere, serious and with proven track records, a pair of our best who we should all hope will be around producing good works in their own way for our cause for many moons to come. We were all, as I'm sure are others who are reading these words, inspired and brought together into the fray by Dr. Pierce.
They can work things out, I'm sure, as they subordinate their personal differences for the good of the greater cause, while controlling and keeping their womenfolk out of the picture for the good of everybody else. If it were up to me I'd make 'em kiss on the lips like my ol' man used to make me and my brothers do after bashing in each other's heads. As much as we hated doing that, whatever it was we had been fighting about suddenly was forgotten. We're not talking about Bill White or Harold Covington here, folks, but Alex and Kevin, our brothers.
When it was just Dr. Pierce and Fred Streed and Kevin and me on staff in WV, ten or so years ago, Kevin and I got along about at well as a wolf and a bunny rabbit might, but we always managed to pull together to meet deadlines and get things done, pushing each other, pushing Dr. Pierce. I've seen where Fred described that period of Alliance-building as more of a religious calling than a job. I concur. We managed to build our Alliance membership as well as our Voice from nearly scratch to the top of the heap of hardliners after member Robert Mathews and friends' abortive "War on ZOG" nearly destroyed NA in the mid-80's. Dr. P. once told me that he imagined having me and Kevin on staff was like it must've been for Mr. Hitler, keeping Messrs. Goering and Goebbels away from each other's throats and their eyes on the Reich's long term objectives. Our friction was little more than run-of-the-mill petty, internal office politics between competing compartments (Membership & Media) run by officers with totally different personalities and styles, and Dr. Pierce, despite his shortcomings as a manager of personel, did manage to keep us on track for the most part. Gliebe, the "King of Denial," is certainly no Dr. Pierce in this regard.
I don't like what I've seen with all this goddamned public bickering and childish, tit-for-tat name-calling about Alliance personalities. Pierce would have nipped it in the bud, cleaned house, starting with Gliebe, had he been around to witness such developments. Kevin has hitched his wagon to Erich Gliebe's star. I had a long, pleasant, if frank phone conversation with Kevin a couple of weeks ago and let him know my position since things had come to such a head after Gliebe's firing of all staffers who hadn't already quit the staff and NA, not to mention the disreputable, illegal treatment of Fred Streed and the other members of the Alliance's board of directors. I had also talked with Fred, his wife Marta, and member Kitti Molz, not to mention staffers and any number of other Alliance cadre trying to get to the root of things. After keeping fairly silent for more than a year, while still promoting NA and supporting Erich's Chairmanship in the face of so many blunders in judgement by him, I told Kevin that I wished him luck, but that I was coming off the fence to support Fred and Kitti and all the others who have voted with their feet.
I can no longer promote the Alliance and encourage people to send money to Gliebe. The biggest reason: not all the henhouse clucking, but the fact that Gliebe, in an ill-advised outreach to a wider, White Xian market, has decided to ax from the NA Membershp Handbook the rude fact that Christinsanity is one of the five "opposing ideologies" of the National Alliance. That did it for me. Dr. Pierce, the man who translated Adolf Hitler's mentor, Dietrich Ekert's "Bolshevism From Moses to Lenin" from the original German, would not approve, believe me! I've come to expect such compromise and thoughtless expediency from my ol' friend, Brother Erich, but Kevin should know better. Sad to say, but I'm afraid he's more concerned with his position and personal welfare at this point than he is with doing the right thing. Maybe it's his ego, like you say, Mithras. All that calling of Kevin as a "Weenie" on VNN was uncalled for and probably took its toll on him.
This thing with Ed "Support your local Xian patriot" Fields throwing in with NA also leaves an awfully bad taste in my mouth. I'll never forget Fields's front page attack of my courageous friend Tom Metzger about eight years ago in his "Bullshit At Last" tabloid, quoting both Harold Covington and Morris Dees for his "proof" of Tom's unsubstantiated, supposed "sellout." That's another time and another conflict where I had to haul my ass off the fence in a disagreement between friends and take sides. I was good friends with Fields back in the 1980's. I was so innocent and star struck back then, 1986 or so, that when I found myself sitting in Ed's living room, strategizing over some project with just he and me and David Duke, I thought I had died and gone to Heaven. I'm not so innocent any longer. It took me a couple of more years before I discovered who the REAL movers and shakers in the White resistance movement were, and they were not named David Duke or Ed Fields.
Will Williams - Raleigh NC
2003-10-24 17:40 | User Profile
Glad to hear it straight from the horse's mouth, Will. I've always had the highest respect for Kevin Strom as a writer and theorist and I'm sure I would like him personally if we ever met. I also even like Elisha's webpage for that matter. So maybe it is unfair to include KAS in the "Gang of Four," but I think he has been overly sensitive to criticism, especially (and maybe understandibly so) criticism of his wife. I'll trust your judgments, because you know the situation at NA HQ firsthand better than any of the rest of us. Your reports have the unmistakable ring of truth.
Linder and Strom are two of the brightest intellects in the WN movement and we need both of them. I consider Alex to be a personal friend, however, so I'm naturally going to be inclined to side with him in any dispute.
Rich Brooks
2003-10-24 17:45 | User Profile
White Will,
Just what we need: a long winded, articulate new member with a career worth of axes to grind. I can tell you are here to spread the joy. I take from your last post that you like both Linder and Strom, although you have your doubt about Strom because he is allied with Glieb. Your main reason officially for disliking Glieb is that he is not anti-Christian patriot enough for your tastes (by the way, this website is run by a Christian patriot.), and for this same reason you also dislike Duke (who at this very moment cannot defend himself because he is doing time in a ZOG dungeon). Welcome. :sad:
PS, Im not a Christian but I have no problem at all with the patriotic sort.
2003-10-24 18:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]White Will,
Just what we need: a long winded, articulate new member with a career worth of axes to grind. I can tell you are here to spread the joy...
Whatever, Mr. Bardamu [?]. You do not read very well for comprehension, do you? If you knew anything about Dr. Pierce's body of work and the National Alliance with its Cosmotheist foundation, you'd understand that he and it clearly take a VERY dim view of the Jewish Jesus cult and rightfully see it as part of the problem for our race. Many Alliance members joined NA because of its natural, biological basis, and because of Dr. Pierce's brutal honesty on the subject. Sure, we had some Xian members, but they accepted the Alliance goals and program and took an oath to uphold.
If you want to discuss my so-called "axes to grind" with movement personalities, I'll be glad to. I've met 'em all, good and bad. Have you?
WWW
2003-10-24 18:12 | User Profile
I don't care about who you know, or the dirt you have on them.
2003-10-24 18:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Will][QUOTE=Bardamu]White Will,
Just what we need: a long winded, articulate new member with a career worth of axes to grind. I can tell you are here to spread the joy...
Whatever, Mr. Bardamu [?]. You do not read very well for comprehension, do you? If you knew anything about Dr. Pierce's body of work and the National Alliance with its Cosmotheist foundation, you'd understand that he and it clearly take a VERY dim view of the Jewish Jesus cult and rightfully see it as part of the problem for our race. Many Alliance members joined NA because of its natural, biological basis, and because of Dr. Pierce's brutal honesty on the subject. Sure, we had some Xian members, but they accepted the Alliance goals and program and took an oath to uphold.
If you want to discuss my so-called "axes to grind" with movement personalities, I'll be glad to. I've met 'em all, good and bad. Have you?
WWW[/QUOTE]
White Will,
Where can I find Dr. Pierce's body of work on the web? (You can pm me, if you wish.)
Many thanks.
FB
2003-10-24 18:49 | User Profile
Well, well, what a surprise, the two lying, double-crossing, back-stabbers (White and Linder) aren't getting along.
What [U]isn't[/U] a surprise though, is that the same OD'ers are falling for the same old con. "Step right up! Everybody's a winner! Now you see 'em now you don't!"
Right here in this thread we've got "Desert Fox" responding to "White Will" responding to "Mithras". And my goodness they all seem to be obsessed with Kevin Strom and his wife. And what's this? "They" are turning a thread about White and Linder into an attack on the National Alliance? Oh, oh, oh.
ALL these identities belong to Bill White. "White Will" - get it? [B]GET IT???[/B] Smears Kevin Strom. Hates the NA. Like an eight year old prankster, his greatest pleasure comes from deceiving people and he's found a seemingly endless supply of suckers among the paleo-con/white nationalists.
Stupid white men. Lord, why do I bother...
2003-10-24 19:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]White Will,
Where can I find Dr. Pierce's body of work on the web? (You can pm me, if you wish.)
Many thanks.
FB[/QUOTE]
[url]www.natvan.com[/url] is a good place to start. Most past issues of National Vanguard are out of print, but The Best of Attack! and National Vanguard is a good compilation of NA stuff from the 70's to early 80's. You can order the best of Dr. Pierce's ADV's on audiotape at Victor Gerhard's Condor Legion Web site.
I'm out the door for the weekend. I'll leave these know-it-alls like Mr. Bugaboo to y'all to deal with.
Cheers!
White Will (from my given name, William White Williams, BTW. I've used the name since the 1980's)
2003-10-24 20:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Will]I'm out the door for the weekend. I'll leave these know-it-alls like Mr. Bugaboo to y'all to deal with.
Cheers!
White Will (from my given name, William White Williams, BTW. I've used the name since the 1980's)[/QUOTE] Yes, Billy, you run along now - and take your imaginary friends with you. Your fun here is over... for now.
If anyone has doubts about my "outing" of BW here just go back and read a few of the recent "White Will" posts. If you can't see his load of horsesh!t for what it is then... I really don't know what else to say.
[QUOTE] Message 6675 from National-Anarchist:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill White" dhyphen@yahoo.com To: National-Anarchist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 3:34 AM Subject: Re: [National-Anarchist] American Free Press Interviews Bill White
...If anyone wants to go there and start commenting on articles and pissing the left-anarchists off, I would find that as hilarious as the folk i know doing it now. [B]Often i find myself attacking myself from one IP address, defending myself from another, and then watching the dopes try to take sides and taking all my manifestations seriously.[/B]
I only do it when I'm very bored at work, of cours, though.
Bill [url]http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/www-newswire/2002-January/003301.html[/url] [/QUOTE]
2003-10-24 20:28 | User Profile
"Desert Fox" is Rich Brooks. He's legit, Wayland; sorry.
I can't vouch for anybody else, of course (save me and thee!) And if Bill White is out there (I suspect he's "White Shadow" but who knows?) why not show himself and post as himself? It's not as if anybody's going to reach through his monitor screen to throttle him. Though it may not be for want of [I]trying[/I], of course.
2003-10-24 20:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Will][QUOTE=Bardamu]
If you want to discuss my so-called "axes to grind" with movement personalities, I'll be glad to. I've met 'em all, good and bad. Have you?
WWW[/QUOTE]
A regular Truman Capote of patriotism no doubt.
It doesn't say much for your discretion that you are willing to discuss what you know over the internet, just like it doesn't say much for your honor that you bash Duke when he's locked down.
2003-10-24 20:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]"Desert Fox" is Rich Brooks. He's legit, Wayland; sorry.
I can't vouch for anybody else, of course (save me and thee!) And if Bill White is out there (I suspect he's "White Shadow" but who knows?) why not show himself and post as himself?[/QUOTE]What fun is there in that?
2003-10-24 20:59 | User Profile
Sadly, I agree.
2003-10-25 04:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Wayland]Right here in this thread we've got "Desert Fox" responding to "White Will" responding to "Mithras". And my goodness they all seem to be obsessed with Kevin Strom and his wife. And what's this? "They" are turning a thread about White and Linder into an attack on the National Alliance? Oh, oh, oh.
ALL these identities belong to Bill White. [/QUOTE]
Either you're spending too much time on SF and all the paranoia and love of censorship has gone to your head or you actually think that Bill White has attained the Knowledge and Conversation of his Holy Guardian Angel. Either way, "Wayland", you sound ridiculous.
And no, I was never an anti-racist. And no I never "attacked the NA." Get over your obsession with Kevin Strom and come back to reality.
2003-10-25 06:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Will][QUOTE=Bardamu]White Will,
Whatever, Mr. Bardamu [?]. You do not read very well for comprehension, do you? If you knew anything about Dr. Pierce's body of work and the National Alliance with its Cosmotheist foundation, you'd understand that he and it clearly take a VERY dim view of the Jewish Jesus cult and rightfully see it as part of the problem for our race. Many Alliance members joined NA because of its natural, biological basis, and because of Dr. Pierce's brutal honesty on the subject. Sure, we had some Xian members, but they accepted the Alliance goals and program and took an oath to uphold.
WWW[/QUOTE]
I would like to point out that a great number of the forum members here are Christians and will request that you make some attempt to not be so stridently offensive by using terms like "Jewish Jesus cult". It is of course perfectly fine to debate religion here and numerous Christian memebrs will delight in debating those matters with you but we should attempt to do so in a civil fashion if for no other reason then viseral attacks upon Christianity will prevent any chance of racialism in the states being anything more then what it currently is.
2003-10-25 07:15 | User Profile
Friends, who I have not meet, but are not trolls, and truly are disendant's for freedom to exist and have the right to white community, and retain our nation against great odds.. I say this, please be restrained when fligging feces.. We are in a struggle for sure,and the enemy has control of the court's, schools, feral govt.,and media etc.. As for Duke, I have never said a word or wrote a negative word against him. Now I say this, he made very bad choices and disapointed some of his closest supporters. Yes, many of U.S. have made wrong choices in life, I don't mean criminal, but the many other's of our short lives.. The stress of being a leader is great and can break some of the very best of our race, though not all... I am sure, that all the men who have who have awakened to the last 100 years of the willful undermining of U.S. and fully understands this is not a situation that will go away after a walk or movie, should understand we are feared and under attack, and infighting is loved by the enemy... As for White Will, he is very Good Man..Those who don't know that, should be restrained from hurling non sense, especially if you are a good white man, who understands we are in a MESS.. Good health to all the white dissendants who post and read O.D.
2003-10-25 20:30 | User Profile
He's baaack!!! VNN's been updated. :clap:
2003-10-26 01:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]I found it to be spot on. Recent dealings with KAS through NationalVanguard.org have confirmed to me that KAS is more concerned with his personal ego than anything else.[/QUOTE] Can you describe the nature of these dealings for us so that we might better judge whether you're actually making a point or just talking out of your ass? [QUOTE]He doesn't seem to comprehend things which would seem obvious to most, and anyone critical of any one part of his work becomes his enemy.[/QUOTE] How about providing an example of something that KAS doesn't comprehend. And while you're at it, please post something to back up your claim that "anyone critical of any one part of his work becomes his enemy."
[QUOTE]And the funny thing is, he has never written anything that has ever inspired me. He's overrated to say the least.[/QUOTE] Everything you've said here is one hundred percent consistent with Bill White's psychopathic rantings about KAS over the last six months, right down to the "KAS is more concerned with his personal ego than anything else", a quote which can be attributed to Bill White almost word for word. I find it extremely unlikely that more than one person in the rather small WN community would be suffering from the same delusional obsessions about KAStrom, and yet here we find three relatively new OD members using the same tactics Bill White uses to smear KAS at every opportunity. If there were any evidence at all to support these smears that would be different; but none has ever been supplied. Every rumor about KAS, every allegation about corruption and wrongdoing at the National Alliance, and every call and agitation to undermine the NA and its leadership originated at Bill White's web site overthrow.com. The same Bill White who sucked thousands of dollars out of Marc Moran before taking him down, the same Bill White who's now trying desperately to shut down VNN, the same Bill White who, with the help of some gullible and easily misled WNs, almost succeeded in taking down the National Alliance. In just this one thread, "Mithras", "DesertFox", and "White Will" have all shown quite clearly that their views on KAS and the NA are perfectly consistent with the views of anti-racist, anarchist Bill White. And still people don't clue in...
2003-10-26 04:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Smedley Butler]Friends, who I have not meet, but are not trolls, and truly are disendant's for freedom to exist and have the right to white community, and retain our nation against great odds.. I say this, please be restrained when fligging feces.. We are in a struggle for sure,and the enemy has control of the court's, schools, feral govt.,and media etc.. As for Duke, I have never said a word or wrote a negative word against him. Now I say this, he made very bad choices and disapointed some of his closest supporters. Yes, many of U.S. have made wrong choices in life, I don't mean criminal, but the many other's of our short lives.. The stress of being a leader is great and can break some of the very best of our race, though not all... I am sure, that all the men who have who have awakened to the last 100 years of the willful undermining of U.S. and fully understands this is not a situation that will go away after a walk or movie, should understand we are feared and under attack, and infighting is loved by the enemy... As for White Will, he is very Good Man..Those who don't know that, should be restrained from hurling non sense, especially if you are a good white man, who understands we are in a MESS.. Good health to all the white dissendants who post and read O.D.[/QUOTE]
Is this post a joke or what? [I]Please be restrained from fligging feces...feral govt.[/I] Fligging feces? :king:
We have a perfect sentence like this: [I]As for Duke, I have never said a word or wrote a negative word against him.[/I] Then a parody of Spanglish: [I]As for White Will, he is very Good Man...[/I]
I think Wayland has it nailed.
2003-10-26 04:33 | User Profile
Just tried going to VNN, interesting error message lol.
2003-10-26 06:07 | User Profile
"White Will" is the moniker for Will Williams, a White activist with a proven track record longer than any other member of this forum. Likewise, while I am a relative newcomer to the movement, I am "legit" as Il Ragno has indicated in a previous post. I don't know "Mithras," but his posts have the ring of truth and I would be willing to bet a lot of money that his opinions are equally independent.
I think Alex hit the nail on the head when he said the NA has devolved into a cult. This is the type of blind loyalty and unwillingness to face reality which eventually brought down the National Socialist Party in Germany. While we may admire many of the things Hitler tried to do, let's acknowledge his mistakes and try not to repeat them.
2003-10-26 06:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Acorn]Just tried going to VNN, interesting error message lol.[/QUOTE] VNN is up at the present time, and was never down today to my knowledge. In fact I have a new movie review that I see was just posted there.
2003-10-26 07:19 | User Profile
All of this talk about who might be Bill White is silly and paranoid unless someone happens to have proof to back up such a notion. As a result, I think it's a bad idea in the extreme to imply that some that says something you happen to object to is Bill White or someone else actively working to harm what ever organization one happens to support. Also this talk about who is "legit" has little meaning here because I doubt that very many posters here personally know any but a small portion of the membership. I for one can only claim to know a two dozen or so members well enough to say what kind of people they are in real life.
It seem to me that one should give other forum members the benifit of the doubt until they prove themselves unworthy of your trust. In the mean time debating others on the substance of their ideas should be the rule rather then the poking about looking for enemies behind every screen name as that often creates them rather then finds them.
2003-10-26 07:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=triskelion]All of this talk about who might be Bill White is silly and paranoid unless someone happens to have proof to back up such a notion. As a result, I think it's a bad idea in the extreme to imply that some that says something you happen to object to is Bill White or someone else actively working to harm what ever organization one happens to support. Also this talk about who is "legit" has little meaning here because I doubt that very many posters here personally know any but a small portion of the membership. I for one can only claim to know a two dozen or so members well enough to say what kind of people they are in real life.
It seem to me that one should give other forum members the benifit of the doubt until they prove themselves unworthy of your trust. In the mean time debating others on the substance of their ideas should be the rule rather then the poking about looking for enemies behind every screen name as that often creates them rather then finds them.[/QUOTE] Trisk, you are so right.. As for the Grammar hounds, thank for noting the error's on post's. As for posting, tomorrow night I will post perhaps, my final post.. Perhaps my grammar is not perfect, but Will William's is a patriot and any one who writes on here is that is in any connected to any one else is wrong. Check your facts if you care to.. Good night
2003-10-26 13:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=DesertFox]
I think Alex hit the nail on the head when he said the NA has devolved into a cult. [/QUOTE]
You guys are obsessed with bashing each other.
2003-10-26 15:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]"Desert Fox" is Rich Brooks. He's legit, Wayland; sorry.
I can't vouch for anybody else, of course (save me and thee!) And if Bill White is out there (I suspect he's "White Shadow" but who knows?) why not show himself and post as himself? It's not as if anybody's going to reach through his monitor screen to throttle him. Though it may not be for want of [I]trying[/I], of course.[/QUOTE] Bill White has posted as himself on other forums. He may be untrustworthy and his ego is out of control, but he hasn't been afraid to post under his own name in the past, on other forums.
As to Will, I remember him from another forum, long before I ever heard of Bill White. I'd wager good odds based on his writing style and his likes/dislikes, that this is the real White Will posting, and not a Bill White mascarade.
Some of you guys are way too paranoid.
2003-10-26 16:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Using the principle "past behavior is the most accurate predictor of the future one", the former anti-racist Bill White is a no-go.[/QUOTE]That's not a universal rule, though. Plenty of people have been on the wrong side for perfectly honorable reasons, and later repented of their error. That's the key though: they have to admit they were wrong. Bill White never admits to being wrong about anything.
I've given Bill White the benefit of the doubt for a long time, because he writes well and his site has useful links and commentary. But I was always worried about his ego; I wrote it off in the past as his "showmanship" but that doesn't wash anymore.
A little more humility would do us all a world of good; Bill White doubly so.
2003-10-26 16:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=N.B. Forrest] One of the mysteries of the universe is how this punk got control of the name VNN.....[/QUOTE]Has that really been established yet? Bill White is making certain legal claims, but for all I know this could be bluff.
AFAIK (without bothering to actually look it up) the URL vanguardnewsnetwork.com is registered in Linder's name, isn't it? Possession is 9/10ths of the law.
White would have to established that he really was in a full business partner relationship with Linder, and not merely a contractor. And even if he could establish this relationship, that would only give him half ownership of the VNN name.
I'm not aware that Linder entered into a full business partner relationship with White, but then I really haven't been following this story that closely. No doubt someone will shed more light on this.
2003-10-26 16:16 | User Profile
Lets sum this thing up and move on.
I think it is understood that White Will is not Bill White.
It was a valid question for a couple of reasons, number one the name Bill White is implied in the name White Will [will = william = bill]; and it was very similiar to the alias Bill White used on the VNN forum. Maybe someone remembers that name. White Will started up the tired old rumble between WN media personalities that has been straining relations within WN circles, which is best exemplified by Bill Whites dedicated attacks on Kevin Strom and the NA in general; which Alex Linder picked up in a bid to take over leadership of the NA. A bid which failed miserably, for him mainly. Poor judgement that was. All of this is to say that White Will not only had a derivative of Bill White's name, but he sounded like Bill White as well, so he was challenged on his identity, and that is perfectly legit.
2003-10-26 16:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Lets sum this thing up and move on.
I think it is understood that White Will is not Bill White. [/QUOTE]I don't have a dog in any of these fights, and find these fights rather tiresome. I was just contributing what I knew about Will, and there are others here who know a lot more about Will than I do. As to his writing style, it is nothing like Bill White's. That's subjective, of course.
2003-10-26 16:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=DesertFox]"White Will" is the moniker for Will Williams, a White activist with a proven track record longer than any other member of this forum. Likewise, while I am a relative newcomer to the movement, I am "legit" as Il Ragno has indicated in a previous post. I don't know "Mithras," but his posts have the ring of truth and I would be willing to bet a lot of money that his opinions are equally independent.
I think Alex hit the nail on the head when he said the NA has devolved into a cult. This is the type of blind loyalty and unwillingness to face reality which eventually brought down the National Socialist Party in Germany. While we may admire many of the things Hitler tried to do, let's acknowledge his mistakes and try not to repeat them.[/QUOTE] So you're "a relative newcomer to the movement" but you feel you can start right in by bashing the National Alliance? How would you know it's "devolved" in to a cult or into anything else if you have no experience of what it was like before?
And you say it was "blind loyalty and unwillingness to face reality which eventually brought down the National Socialist Party in Germany"? As if Hitler and the NDSAP would have been better off if only they could have had Alex Linder and Bill White sniping at them from the sidelines:
Linder: "Adolf! Make ME your propaganda minister! ME ME ME!"
White: "Goebbels' wife is a slut!"
[QUOTE]That "leadership" (if you are referering to the National Alliance) deserved to be villified, because the charges made by White, even if he is a disreputable individual, were essentially true. Strom's track record with women has not been good. Is it too blunt to say that he is now p***ywhipped, as most of the reports I've heard say that he is?[/QUOTE] LOL! "Strom's track record with women has not been good"! As if anybody but an obsessed, immature, geek would give a damn that KAStrom is once-divorced.
You're a phony simply because nobody could be as shallow and stupid as you present yourself to be and still operate a computer. You aren't presenting honest opinions, you're advancing an agenda to discredit and undermine the National Alliance, KAStrom, and everybody else associated with that organization. Exactly like Bill White.
And btw, just where did you happen upon these "reports" that you talk about - wait, let me guess - right there on overthrow.com, the same web site where Bill White regularly posts official looking press releases about - Bill White! If you arent' BW you parrot him so perfectly that it hardly matters whether we establish that point or not.
You are of course, free to prove me wrong simply by presenting your evidence for why the NA deserves to be villified, along with your evidence that any of Bill White's charges were ever true as you claim. But we'll be waiting a long time for something like that to appear won't we...
2003-10-26 16:37 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Wayland]Can you describe the nature of these dealings for us so that we might better judge whether you're actually making a point or just talking out of your ass? [/QUOTE]
It is rather pointless to do so. It doesn't even concern you. My original comment was simply a counterargument to what Jack_boot wrote. Now we can have jack_boot prove that he is right and Alex wrong but what does that get one? There is nothing to gain. People have their own opinions. They chose them as they chose their very actions, now they have to hold their head up.
2003-10-26 16:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Smedley Butler]Trisk, you are so right.. As for the Grammar hounds, thank for noting the error's on post's. As for posting, tomorrow night I will post perhaps, my final post.. Perhaps my grammar is not perfect, but Will William's is a patriot and any one who writes on here is that is in any connected to any one else is wrong. Check your facts if you care to.. Good night[/QUOTE]
Hello SB,
I didn't write anything about your grammar so you must have me confused with some one else. In any case, feel free to keep posting.
This thread is filled with stereotypical American paranonia and has gotten pretty absurd so i'll not bother with it unless the personal attacks get worse which would force me to act.
2003-10-26 16:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]I think it is understood that White Will is not Bill White. [/QUOTE] Bardamu, maybe you're right but you have to admit that if he were really Bill White then this -> [QUOTE=White Will]If it were up to me I'd make 'em kiss on the lips like my ol' man used to make me and my brothers do[/QUOTE]would explain a lot of things.
2003-10-26 17:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=triskelion]All of this talk about who might be Bill White is silly and paranoid unless someone happens to have proof to back up such a notion. As a result, I think it's a bad idea in the extreme to imply that some that says something you happen to object to is Bill White or someone else actively working to harm what ever organization one happens to support.[/QUOTE] This is quite amazing. Why aren't you asking the people who continually post smears about KAStrom and the NA here and elsewhere (VNN) to supply some proof to back up their claims? Why don't you question their motives? Why do you continue to step in on the side of Bill White, a man who has a history of spreading malicious lies about people in the WN community, as can be easily proved? [QUOTE]This thread is filled with stereotypical American paranonia and has gotten pretty absurd so i'll not bother with it unless the personal attacks get worse which would force me to act.[/QUOTE] So exposing an obvious fraud and liar is paranoia, while baseless and unproven accusations against hard-working white nationalists should be left unchallenged? Is that your position?
[QUOTE]Also this talk about who is "legit" has little meaning here because I doubt that very many posters here personally know any but a small portion of the membership. I for one can only claim to know a two dozen or so members well enough to say what kind of people they are in real life.
It seem to me that one should give other forum members the benifit of the doubt until they prove themselves unworthy of your trust. In the mean time debating others on the substance of their ideas should be the rule rather then the poking about looking for enemies behind every screen name as that often creates them rather then finds them.[/QUOTE] I give people the benefit of the doubt until they begin making statements that are obviously false and obviously driven by an agenda to undermine good people and worthwhile organizations. And then I make judgements as to the character and motives of the people making those statements. This should be a normal process for anybody, but strangely, it seems to be in short supply among racialists and paleos. But why should this matter?
Well, isn't it MacDonald who claims that people of white European ancestory have poorly developed faculties for identifying ingroup/outgroup members? And doesn't he demonstrate that whites are not good at identifying and rejecting those who are more likely to weaken the group rather than strengthen it? (Sorry, can't find the quote right now). Hands up, how many people think he was talking about somebody else? Wrong, white man, HE'S TALKING ABOUT YOU AND ME. It's all white people, every one of us. This is why the Jews have been so successful against us - we're SUCKERS. We believe every lie they tell us. Most whites just don't comprehend that there really are people in the world who can look you straight in the eye and lie to you.
I'd like to see every white man, first thing every morning, look in the mirror and say, out loud, "Today I resolve to be on guard against my genetic weakness to be taken for a sucker."
Just one interloper like Bill White slithering in here posting under multiple user names, faking support for an agenda to undermine credible white nationalists, disrupting legitimate discussions, and misleading people about his true intentions, is one hundred times worse than whatever injury it was that the entire group of last-banned members was perceived to have caused. The banned members at least expressed themselves honestly (and made many good points I might add).
If we can't learn to make these critical distinctions between those who wish us harm and those who wish as well we'll never be climbing out of this hole we've dug for ourselves.
2003-10-26 18:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=grep14w]Bill White has posted as himself on other forums. He may be untrustworthy and his ego is out of control, but he hasn't been afraid to post under his own name in the past, on other forums.[/QUOTE]Your comment presupposes that the only reason BW would post under another user name would be out of fear. There are a couple of problems with that:
It's not the least bit unusual for people with an intention to mislead others to adopt multiple user names on email lists and web user groups. I've encountered it on more than one occasion, including one case where a well known person in an industry specialist group uses this tactic over and over for self-promotion and for attacking his competitors, even though he is exposed as a fraud time and time again (and no, not by me).
[URL=http://forums.originaldissent.com/showpost.php?p=63670&postcount=58]BW has previously admitted that he enjoys doing this.[/URL]
2003-10-26 18:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Wayland]Your comment presupposes that the only reason BW would post under another user name would be out of fear. There are a couple of problems with that: I don't presuppose anything, merely noting that he posts under his own name on other forums. Do you have any evidence that he even knows or cares about this forum?
It's not the least bit unusual for people with an intention to mislead others to adopt multiple user names on email lists and web user groups. I've encountered it on more than one occasion, including one case where a well known person in an industry specialist group uses this tactic over and over for self-promotion and for attacking his competitors, even though he is exposed as a fraud time and time again (and no, not by me). Microsoft does what is called "astroturfing" (fake grass roots) in public forums. It's a very old and well known tactic. Not saying you are wrong to be suspicious, only that you are wrong about the particular people you are accusing.
[URL=http://forums.originaldissent.com/showpost.php?p=63670&postcount=58]BW has previously admitted that he enjoys doing this.[/URL][/QUOTE]
You'll get no disagreement from me about the problematic nature of Bill White.
2003-10-26 18:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]I found it to be spot on. Recent dealings with KAS through NationalVanguard.org have confirmed to me that KAS is more concerned with his personal ego than anything else. He doesn't seem to comprehend things which would seem obvious to most, and anyone critical of any one part of his work becomes his enemy. And the funny thing is, he has never written anything that has ever inspired me. He's overrated to say the least.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Wayland]Can you describe the nature of these dealings for us so that we might better judge whether you're actually making a point or just talking out of your ass?
How about providing an example of something that KAS doesn't comprehend. And while you're at it, please post something to back up your claim that "anyone critical of any one part of his work becomes his enemy."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mithras]It is rather pointless to do so. It doesn't even concern you. My original comment was simply a counterargument to what Jack_boot wrote. Now we can have jack_boot prove that he is right and Alex wrong but what does that get one? There is nothing to gain. People have their own opinions. They chose them as they chose their very actions, now they have to hold their head up.[/QUOTE] What a surprise, you have nothing at all to back up your accusations. You just fling shit at good people and then run and hide. Absolutely typical of your type. Did you think you were back at the VNN forum?
2003-10-26 19:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Wayland]What a surprise, you have nothing at all to back up your accusations. You just fling shit at good people and then run and hide. Absolutely typical of your type. [/QUOTE]
The reason I provide counter to praising of KAS is due to a trend that Iââ¬â¢ve seen in which fans of his believe that he will save America through his ADVs. And this just isnââ¬â¢t going to happen. His diehard fans simply do not see the danger in their thinking. Most of what I say reflects the common opinion of the many in question and therefore cannot be dismissed as just a general personal disagreement. Refusal to admit reality is harmful in itself. What I say can therefore not be perceived as an attack against the person or the movement. So for the record, since there seems to be interest, I enjoy reading NationalVanguard.org though I do not agree with everything that is written there. And I respect some of what the National Alliance does for Whites, though I am under no illusion that the NA is going to save America. Only a political party can do that, and all of the work that the NA has done can be destroyed and negated overnight by a simple motion of the government. Now you must understand and be honest about the situation. Respect is needed for we need not promote ignorance of what lies before us.
2003-10-26 20:28 | User Profile
WL: "This is quite amazing. Why aren't you asking the people who continually post smears about KAStrom and the NA here and elsewhere (VNN) to supply some proof to back up their claims?"
V.O.: I am not involved in the NA/Bill White/VNN fued because it doesn't interest me and I don't have the insider knowledge to determine what portion of what's said is true. My limited experiance with Mr. Strom and his wife are pretty favourable however so I am leary of the attacks against him. In any case, I pointed out that this wild speculation about what members here might be Bill White are stupid and counter productive which they are.
WL: "Why do you continue to step in on the side of Bill White, a man who has a history of spreading malicious lies about people in the WN community, as can be easily proved?""
V.O.: As I have not said I support Bill White's views on the NA or VNN and I have not taken sides in this issue you ought to stop lying about me. What I will point to is that your paranonia about Bill White is being projected on to me and i'd like it to stop.
WL: "So exposing an obvious fraud and liar is paranoia, while baseless and unproven accusations against hard-working white nationalists should be left unchallenged? Is that your position?"
V.O. : My position is that anyone that would project such an arguement onto me is at best a moron. My orignial comments were not directed at you specificially but just the tenor of several of the posts in this thread. Once, again i'd say that I have seen no proof that anyone here is supporting Bill White in the present fued with VNN or the fued with the NA leadership and that I see no reason to think that anyone here is secretly Bill White. Yes, I do think it's a sign of rampant paranonia when you feel the need to lie about me and try get some which hunt underway to find Bill White when you have no reasonable basis to concluede that he's here or even knows about this forum. Your comment "Just one interloper like Bill White slithering in here posting under multiple user names" denonstrates that your not rational on this topic but rather that your on a little which hunt just as I sugested.
WL: "I give people the benefit of the doubt until they begin making statements that are obviously false and obviously driven by an agenda to undermine good people and worthwhile organizations. And then I make judgements as to the character and motives of the people making those statements. This should be a normal process for anybody, but strangely, it seems to be in short supply among racialists and paleos. But why should this matter?"
V.O.: That you have been claiming that Bill White is here and attacking those that you imagine to be such while offering zero proof shows that you don't act in accordance with the first sentance in your comment above. That you have already lied about me proves that you are in fact acting the way you attack others for doing with nothing but your fevered imagination to fall back on.
2003-10-26 21:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Will]Walter E Kurtz: "Bill White and Alex Linder are a couple of jerkoffs. Other than Kevin Alfred Strom, I cannot think of a less-relevant person than these two clowns. These fools live in a fantasy world in which they are famous revolutionaries who are reviled by ZOG and loved by the silent majority...when in reality, they are a bunch of work-shy rejects who play around on the internet all day and spew out worthless invective."
"Work shy?" That's rich Mr. Kurtz. Forget the irrevalent interloper, Mr. White. Whatever differences Kevin and Alex have with each other are unfortunate and should have been dealt with privately, no doubt, but judging these two by their deeds alone, their selfless sacrifices as essentially unpaid volunteers, by the number of White folks they have educated and activated over the years, I'd say they are one-percenters, among the best of our best during this educational phase when we're trying to wake our people up. When I go on the 'Net I want information. "Worthless invective" aside (it's easy to skip over, BTW), the best and most convenient clearing house for a daily shot of the kind of information I'm after -- is VNN. The best place to send newly awakened Whites to put them on the path toward racial understanding and an unshakable racist world view is still, in my humble opinion, National Vanguard Books.
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with your own works for our cause. We know now who you think are clowns and whose work you don't like, Walter; whose work DO you like? Is there anyone you see who has it right and is worthy to follow? What's your plan?
Will Williams - Raleigh NC P.S. A friendly tip: If you want White racists to follow you, Walter, you might want to turn your ball cap around. Many in our circle of friends, around my neck of the woods, anyway, see that backwards ball cap thing as being sort of wiggerly. Maybe it's a regional thing, or generational, or just personal, but I wouldn't follow a White man anywhere if he wears his cap like some negro. He might as well have his hair in dreadlocks and be wearing some of those baggy pants with his ass crack showing, you know?[/QUOTE]
What have I done for our cause? I went to law school and got a job. I'm active in my community. I promote cultural awareness among my brethren and handle legal work for POWs pro-bono. What I DON'T do is create amateurish websites full of childish cartoons and and bad nigger and kike jokes.
Also: My avatar is not a picture of me...its a picture of Johnny Adair the UVF commando. There is nothing "wiggerly" about the guy...he kicked the hell out of the IRA in the 1990s and has been a great help to the BNP.
2003-10-26 21:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]Kurtzââ¬â¢s avatar is a photo of Johnny ââ¬ËMad Dogââ¬â¢ Adair, a loyalist gangster and all round wigger who has fled to Scotland after ordering the death of one too many fellow ââ¬Ëgangstasââ¬â¢. A common scenario among drug gangs like the UFF whose ââ¬Åonly crime is loyalismââ¬Â. Iââ¬â¢m afraid Kurtz may be living ââ¬Åin a fantasy world in which [he is among] famous revolutionariesââ¬Â.[/QUOTE]
You make me laugh. Maybe you resent Adair because he killed one too many of your nigger-loving IRA heroes.
2003-10-26 22:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE]The reason I provide counter to praising of KAS is due to a trend that I?ve seen in which fans of his believe that he will save America through his ADVs. And this just isn?t going to happen. His diehard fans simply do not see the danger in their thinking. Most of what I say reflects the common opinion of the many in question and therefore cannot be dismissed as just a general personal disagreement. Refusal to admit reality is harmful in itself.[/QUOTE] I've never seen anything even close to resembling the cult-worship of KAStrom which you seem to suggest is dangerously developing within the NA. Fans believe KAStrom will save America through his ADVs? Give me a break.
[QUOTE]What I say can therefore not be perceived as an attack against the person or the movement.[/QUOTE] What you said was a direct attack against the person and it was not wrong to see it as such.
[QUOTE]So for the record, since there seems to be interest, I enjoy reading NationalVanguard.org though I do not agree with everything that is written there. And I respect some of what the National Alliance does for Whites, though I am under no illusion that the NA is going to save America.[/QUOTE] Neither have you presented any evidence that anybody else is under any such illusion, and I find it highly improbable that any dangerous condition such as you've described has been quietly developing within the generally cantankerous and anti-authoritarian WN movement.
[QUOTE]Only a political party can do that, and all of the work that the NA has done can be destroyed and negated overnight by a simple motion of the government. Now you must understand and be honest about the situation. Respect is needed for we need not promote ignorance of what lies before us.[/QUOTE] The NA (National Alliance) is a media organization and afaik, they have never tried to present themselves as anything other than that. They see their job as being to "get the word out" so to speak, and they do a reasonably good job of that in a generally hostile environment. If you want to criticize the way they go about doing that, be my guest. But inventing stuff about dangerous cults and so on, and then using that as an excuse for why various NA leaders need to be pulled down a peg or two just isn't going to fly. And when you advance such wild theories you shouldn't be surprised when you have suspicion called upon yourself as to what might be your true motives.
2003-10-26 22:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=triskelion]... [/QUOTE] V.O. check your email.
2003-10-26 22:51 | User Profile
Kurtz,
Who do you like? Francis, Brimelow, Macdonald, that type?
Hypothetically, if you are a young man in high school and the multicults are pushing you around, and then you go to class and the teacher is bashing your culture, it is important that this young man can access pro-white support on the internet. The NA supplies this, as does Stormfront, very important I think.
2003-10-26 23:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Kurtz,
Who do you like? Francis, Brimelow, Macdonald, that type?
Hypothetically, if you are a young man in high school and the multicults are pushing you around, and then you go to class and the teacher is bashing your culture, it is important that this young man can access pro-white support on the internet. The NA supplies this, as does Stormfront, very important I think.[/QUOTE]
I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan,Joe Sobran, Kevin MacDonald, and the entire staff of [url]www.vdare.com[/url]. These people represent an intelligent White Nationalist ethos and are all very professional and respectable people. Buchanan's book entitled "Death of the West" was instrumental in my political awakening, and it was also a bestseller. Pat has done a great job of cultivating a new White political consciousness. Alex Linder, on the other hand, is a vulgar weirdo who maintains an embarrissingly amateurish website...with the help of a socially retarded reject (Bill White) who apparently never outgrew college dorm room radicalism.
2003-10-27 02:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter E Kurtz]I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan,Joe Sobran, Kevin MacDonald, and the entire staff of [url]www.vdare.com[/url]. These people represent an intelligent White Nationalist ethos and are all very professional and respectable people. Buchanan's book entitled "Death of the West" was instrumental in my political awakening, and it was also a bestseller. Pat has done a great job of cultivating a new White political consciousness. Alex Linder, on the other hand, is a vulgar weirdo who maintains an embarrissingly amateurish website...with the help of a socially retarded reject (Bill White) who apparently never outgrew college dorm room radicalism.[/QUOTE]
White is a huckster in the true American fashion. Ex-"anti-racist" who's discovered a new schtick and converted, coincidentally launching a few money making ventures in the process.
As to the poster here who wondered where the Linder statement was that White was purportedly responding to- there wasn't one in case you have'nt figured it out. Notice how the "response" did not refer to any "charges" etc.
Just WHite being White and pre-emptively attacking anyone who might be an enemy to his schtick.
BTW Walter and na Geil, can we please refrain from adding yet another intra-European flame war here?
2003-10-27 02:58 | User Profile
Well, now it's a sort of old VNN/new VNN combo, pretty cool if you ask me. As those who follow Hugh Lincoln and his thoughts and feelings closely know, I was sore over the red-white new VNN. This new development, however disruptive, has at least brought back the format I once loved. But what is the deal with the blank spots on the reader mail part? I always thought that was weird.
2003-10-27 03:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter E Kurtz]I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan,Joe Sobran, Kevin MacDonald... These people represent an intelligent White Nationalist ethos and are all very professional and respectable people... Buchanan's book entitled "Death of the West" was instrumental in my political awakening, and it was also a bestseller. Pat has done a great job of cultivating a new White political consciousness. Alex Linder, on the other hand, is a vulgar weirdo who maintains an embarrissingly amateurish website...
First, in skimming through this thread I see that a few dimwits think I'm Bill White, one because of little more than the similarity of our names, Bill White and White Will, another because I dare to criticize recent, drastic changes in Alliance policy. Good grief! My skin crawls when I read such silly shit in a supposedly serious forum. You people can believe whatever you want to believe; a few of you recognize me from earlier path-crossings. I do not want or expect any apologies or explanations from the nut cases for trying to hurt my feelings. Foolish people don't matter much in my world, thank you.
Most Americans, and many of you 'Net activists, have never even looked an honest-to-god, unreconstructed, unapologetic White leader in his eyes and wouldn't recognize one, other than, perhaps, "former KKK Imperial Wizard" David Duke due to his little bit of media face time (usually a shot in a robe from the 1970's), if you passed one on the street. Our leaders are accessible to serious people, for the most part. It takes a while to learn who the real movers and shakers are, those of the top rank, the ones who have consistently influenced the greatest numbers of Whites in the right direction.
As for your list of admired leaders of our race, I'm not much for name dropping but I have made it my business over the years to physically meet the first three men you mention; Sam Francis, Joseph Sobran and Pat Buchanan; I've read what they write; I've looked them in the eye and asked them hard questions and watched them blink and look down at their shoes. I have not had the pleasure of meeting Kevin MacDonald, but have had his collected works for three years or so. I'm slow to finish his "trilogy," but I've read enough to know that this man is a jewel and his scholarly works are indispensible! McDonald is far and away the most consistently honest of the four when it comes to naming the Jew and staying on topic, with Sobran, Francis and PB ranked behind him in that order, in my opinion, as to their impact on the White resistance. I imagine that Mr. Linder's independent opinion of your mentors is similar to mine, though he is not as quick to give them the credit I will for getting a motivated man like you, trained in the law, into our movement and INVOLVED, albeit at basically entry level. If you will now feed on the red meat of Dr. Pierce after a steady diet of Sam and Joe and Pat's thin gruel, I can see where you might eclipse S,J&P, as Alex did. One might be offended by Alex's "vulgar" style -- I have to cringe myself sometimes sorting through VNN -- but others like it. We need LOTS of Alex's and Kevin's and Sam's and Joe's and Pats to reach different segments of the White population, but they ALL need to be inching steadily toward Dr. Pierce's hard line: the Jew and his collaborators have GOT to go!
You seem to put a premium on "respectability" in pro-White advocates. Respectable to whom, I wonder? To voters? To TV-watchers? To sports fans? To hymn-singers? To pollsters? To whom? If these aspiring White leaders can't pass muster with hard line biological purists, they should stay out of our way and peddle their scribblings with all the other commentators who won't name the enemy or who have half-baked, usually "respectable" Xian solutions for our peoples' ills -- on the sidelines. When I see the National Alliance softening its stance on the harmful effects of Xianity on our people for some measure of, ugh!, RESPECTABILITY with the majority, like some goddamned politician who wets his digit and holds it up to feel how the breeze of public opinion will dictate what his position should be, I am literally sickened. What a stupid blunder by the current NA leadership. I don't care how many people disagree with me; as Dr. Pierce would say, "Count our friends, not our enemies...Our task is not to persuade a numerical majority of the American population that we are right, but rather to build the numerical minority whose values coincide with ours into a majority of will and determination." I imagine that a lot of people who were attracted to Dr. Pierce's vision, his sober judgment and brutal truthfulness, as I was, are also sickened by such expediency. No one, even Kevin Strom or Erich Gliebe, should be surprised when they feel the enormous backlash from hard line purists over such a blunder. Maybe they missed the instruction addressing the problem of Christinsanity that Pierce wove through his novel, Hunter? Shouldn't that book and Nietsche's and Shaw's and Simpson's and all the other authors featured in the National Vanguard Book catalog who blast Xianity now be quietly removed so as not to offend the gullible or the superstitious?
Will Williams - NC
2003-10-27 03:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Will][QUOTE=Walter E Kurtz]I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan,Joe Sobran, Kevin MacDonald... These people represent an intelligent White Nationalist ethos and are all very professional and respectable people... Buchanan's book entitled "Death of the West" was instrumental in my political awakening, and it was also a bestseller. Pat has done a great job of cultivating a new White political consciousness. Alex Linder, on the other hand, is a vulgar weirdo who maintains an embarrissingly amateurish website...
First, in skimming through this thread I see that a few dimwits think I'm Bill White, one because of little more than the similarity of our names, Bill White and White Will, another because I dare to criticize recent, drastic changes in Alliance policy. Good grief! My skin crawls when I read such silly shit in a supposedly serious forum. You people can believe whatever you want to believe; a few of you recognize me from earlier path-crossings. I do not want or expect any apologies or explanations from the nut cases for trying to hurt my feelings. Foolish people don't matter much in my world, thank you.
Most Americans, and many of you 'Net activists, have never even looked an honest-to-god, unreconstructed, unapologetic White leader in his eyes and wouldn't recognize one, other than, perhaps, "former KKK Imperial Wizard" David Duke due to his little bit of media face time (usually a shot in a robe from the 1970's), if you passed one on the street. Our leaders are accessible to serious people, for the most part. It takes a while to learn who the real movers and shakers are, those of the top rank, the ones who have consistently influenced the greatest numbers of Whites in the right direction.
As for your list of admired leaders of our race, I'm not much for name dropping but I have made it my business over the years to physically meet the first three men you mention; Sam Francis, Joseph Sobran and Pat Buchanan; I've read what they write; I've looked them in the eye and asked them hard questions and watched them blink and look down at their shoes. I have not had the pleasure of meeting Kevin MacDonald, but have had his collected works for three years or so. I'm slow to finish his "trilogy," but I've read enough to know that this man is a jewel and his scholarly works are indispensible! McDonald is far and away the most consistently honest of the four when it comes to naming the Jew and staying on topic, with Sobran, Francis and PB ranked behind him in that order, in my opinion, as to their impact on the White resistance. I imagine that Mr. Linder's independent opinion of your mentors is similar to mine, though he is not as quick to give them the credit I will for getting a motivated man like you, trained in the law, into our movement and INVOLVED, albeit at basically entry level. If you will now feed on the red meat of Dr. Pierce after a steady diet of Sam and Joe and Pat's thin gruel, I can see where you might eclipse S,J&P, as Alex did. One might be offended by Alex's "vulgar" style -- I have to cringe myself sometimes sorting through VNN -- but others like it. We need LOTS of Alex's and Kevin's and Sam's and Joe's and Pats to reach different segments of the White population, but they ALL need to be inching steadily toward Dr. Pierce's hard line: the Jew and his collaborators have GOT to go!
You seem to put a premium on "respectability" in pro-White advocates. Respectable to whom, I wonder? To voters? To TV-watchers? To sports fans? To hymn-singers? To pollsters? To whom? If these aspiring White leaders can't pass muster with hard line biological purists, they should stay out of our way and peddle their scribblings with all the other commentators who won't name the enemy or who have half-baked, usually "respectable" Xian solutions for our peoples' ills -- on the sidelines. When I see the National Alliance softening its stance on the harmful effects of Xianity on our people for some measure of, ugh!, RESPECTABILITY with the majority, like some goddamned politician who wets his digit and holds it up to feel how the breeze of public opinion will dictate what his position should be, I am literally sickened. What a stupid blunder by the current NA leadership. I don't care how many people disagree with me; as Dr. Pierce would say, "Count our friends, not our enemies...Our task is not to persuade a numerical majority of the American population that we are right, but rather to build the numerical minority whose values coincide with ours into a majority of will and determination." I imagine that a lot of people who were attracted to Dr. Pierce's vision, his sober judgment and brutal truthfulness, as I was, are also sickened by such expediency. No one, even Kevin Strom or Erich Gliebe, should be surprised when they feel the enormous backlash from hard line purists over such a blunder. Maybe they missed the instruction addressing the problem of Christinsanity that Pierce wove through his novel, Hunter? Shouldn't that book and Nietsche's and Shaw's and Simpson's and all the other authors featured in the National Vanguard Book catalog who blast Xianity now be quietly removed so as not to offend the gullible or the superstitious?
Will Williams - NC[/QUOTE]
I have also met Pat Buchanan, and I found him to be a class act and very approachable. He is a very accomplished guy who served in two presidential administrations, and I find him to be quite brilliant.
Alex Linder, Billy Roper, Matt Hale, et. al are very maladjusted and insignificant individuals who are completely unknown outside of a miniscule and self-contained fringe subculture. I am sure that you can see the difference.
I also don't need "leaders" because I am my own man. I would prefer to lead by example in my own community and offer my skills to other racially-conscious Whites who need help.
Fringe lunatics who publish silly assed websites and hawk lousy race-war novels are worthless.
2003-10-27 03:58 | User Profile
[quote=white will]
I'm not much for name dropping but ...
LOL. Man, you are one puffed up blow hard.
2003-10-27 05:44 | User Profile
Patty Cake, had bad knee's and got and 4 F draft rating, yet he ran on hard pavement all over Washington D.C. when he was in the Nixon Admin. Then People who gave him hundreds of dollar's in 99, "I never got a reciept either" were stabbed in the back, as for his choice of a V.P. Mazola Foster with out consulting his supporter's, plus he had a flat out anti-white Communist Falani. Our police are trained by a Religous and very racist outfit, that has spied U.S. and brainwash's our children in the public schools. The ADL was sued in CO. and lost ten million to a couple for defaming them, and after many years finally settled a claim by Korean combat Vet and ex-Congressman R. Pete McCloskey of CA. Separation church and state does not apple that hate group. We are living in a time when Jew's who live in a all white community, can have Police harrass you for handing out Jared Taylor's American Renaissance, not even N.A. material. Our country and our bill of rights are confined in the history book's. Waking up as many as possible is important. The press/media, trade, and open borders beating U.S. up every day, plus the degradation, and daily terror white's face. The press, must be removed from the control of the Bolshevik's who hate U.S. Nixon, and Halderman should have stormed the media center's and arrested all the S.O.B.'S from coast to coast in 1972 he knew the truth and could have rounded up a couple of thousand govt. agents of that era who would have been happy to accomplish this.. He knew of the USS Liberty too... NIXON, that PATTY CAKE served, advised him to give leftist the kithcen sink, as far as anti white inactments were concerned.. Silent Coupe, is a great book of Nixon Admin. and the real Watergate facts, and how our Navy that was awake then, and spied on Dr. Henry too. Bottom line is this, Perot and Patty have turned off the majority of white voter's to ever vote third party again, and I say Perot was a FALSE FLAG operation from day one. WE HAVE A MINORITY WITH ITS BOOT ON OUR COLLECTIVE MAJORITY NECKS. We are mistreated and villified by an ALIEN hostile media. We are in a MESS,and there is no time for bottle feeding. The OPEN borders and FREE TRADE is the EVIDENECE of treason rules U.S.... Alex Linder is important as backbone and Dr.Kevin MacDonald is the rock of truth on who we face. We as a race are in trouble from Helsinki to Auckland, and one group is responsible along with the white useful idiot's, who have helped them and cave in on a dime like Rep. Moran of VA. and Senator Not allot of brain's from Miss. I am doing what I can every day in some way to get whites to see we on the rope's, no matter what one's personal wealth is, it is nothing when you have no rights to be, or a COUNTRY that is NOT YOURS. I am sure that all the NON trolls on O.D. forum do understand this...
2003-10-27 06:37 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Smedley Butler]...WE HAVE A MINORITY WITH ITS BOOT ON OUR COLLECTIVE MAJORITY NECKS. We are mistreated and villified in an ALIEN hostile media. We are in a MESS,and there is no time for bottle feeding...[/QUOTE]
As usual, right to the point. In the current case it's [B]NAME THE WHITE TRAITOR[/B], and I think there's something like treason in the way VNN -- another WN resource -- is going down over infighting instigated by Bill White. Of course Bill has his old buddy anti-racial "activists" to go back to.
Yeah, Patty took my money and bought himself gallbladder surgery in Long Beach. Hope it hurt.
2003-10-27 11:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ragnar]As usual, right to the point. In the current case it's [B]NAME THE WHITE TRAITOR[/B], and I think there's something like treason in the way VNN -- another WN resource -- is going down over infighting instigated by Bill White. Of course Bill has his old buddy anti-racial "activists" to go back to. [/QUOTE]
It's really dishonest to try to paint Alex Linder as a victim of big bad Bill White. These two persons--equally unscrupulous--came together because they served each other's purposes. Alex knew exactly what kind of person White was and used him as his hatchet man to get rid of anyone who stood in the way of his taking over the National Alliance. Alex didn't care a bit who got hurt in the process, or how. All that mattered was that he grab this chance to make himself bigger and more important. Long after White had far overstepped the bounds of decency, Alex stayed glued to him and Alex's cult members defended his liaison with White on grounds that even though White was a baddie, he was helping VNN do great things so Linder was swallowing the bad taste and continuing the partnership. It's only because the NA coup failed and because White is anathema to respectable people who Linder wants to be accepted by that he is finally getting "divorced." Had the coup succeeded, the marriage would be intact. Linder is no hero, and he's no victim.
2003-10-27 13:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]LOL. Man, you are one puffed up blow hard.[/QUOTE]
Maybe so by prevailing "respectable" standards, but I can back up whatever I've written here -- that is the test to the reasonable observer. I have credibility because I've paid my dues through nearly 20 years of service to my race, working with our top leaders. Besides that, to paraphrase Winnie "the sot" Churchill, I can always wake up tomorrow and blow softly if I wish, but you, sir, will still be an anonymous ankle-biting gadfly who has zero influence among serious race-fighters.
Why are you participating in this thread? You don't seem to have anything to offer that's either constructive or informative. Who and what are you, besides a troll? Why can't you address the substance of my comments as Kurtz at least half-way attempts to do?
Do you want to debate White nationalist politics with me on this forum? If so, then comport yourself like a serious adult if you expect to engage me.
Will Williams
2003-10-27 20:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Wayland]I've never seen anything even close to resembling the cult-worship of KAStrom which you seem to suggest is dangerously developing within the NA. Fans believe KAStrom will save America through his ADVs? Give me a break. [/QUOTE]
If I take back what I said will it help you sleep at night?
Way I see it, it won't matter either way if KAS is criticized or not. America has far bigger problems than the WN movement (yeah right: what movement?). Media won't do anything without a political movement, so all of what the NA and other "media establishments" do is completely wasted. I also therefore laugh at Linder's "media is politics" quote that he likes to toss around.
Learn from past masters: read Goebbels' [I]Knowledge and Propaganda[/I] and [I]The Storm is Coming[/I]:
[url]http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb54.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb24.htm[/url]
2003-10-28 01:54 | User Profile
White Will,
If you want to use this forum to piss all over your other enemies go ahead, but lay off Duke until the man is free to respond. Surely a big shot like you can afford such a small consideration.
2003-10-28 03:06 | User Profile
I am certainly in no position to comment upon the intricacies of White Will's 150,000 $ shaft-taking and I don't know Harold Covington outside of what is available online over the last few years but I can attest to at least his writing ability. I haven't read the books, I read " Hill Of The Raven " as it was posted on VNN about a year ago, and I loved it. I have it saved. I remember reading it and staying up all night long, as Alex Linder you say can attest, it was sublimely appropriate yet daring, and thoroughly an exciting read. Bill White to me is just an individual, not a movement. Alex is more of an individual who believes in a movement. Alex has leadership qualities ( which Im sure us paleocons will be sure to suggest adjustments ) while Bill White doesn't have accountability. From what I can tell, if I had a deal with Alex, he would honor it. If I had a deal with Bill White, I may as well bet on black or red.
2003-10-28 03:28 | User Profile
You know what Mr Will White ( whether u be Bill White or not ) guess what. MAYBE the NA is LARGER than YOU MAYBE the NA and Gliebe are RIGHT and you are WRONG. MAYBE you could die tomorrow.
You are NOT going to get away with blasphemy and sick disgust just because you want to throw some spears. If you want to exclude Christians ( YES THAT IS CHRISTIANS NOT Xians ) from The National Alliance and surely your group then you can deal with that, I'm sure you're a BIG BOY.
2003-10-28 05:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hugh Lincoln]I guess when you're doing flaming anti-Semitic commentary, finding respectable technical help is a tricky matter. [/QUOTE]
You, sir, are a master of understatement. You have my undying respect for the funniest thing I'll see all week.
2003-10-28 16:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter E Kurtz]My avatar is not a picture of me...its a picture of Johnny Adair the UVF commando. There is nothing "wiggerly" about the guy...he kicked the hell out of the IRA in the 1990s and has been a great help to the BNP.[/QUOTE]
I loath people who support paramilitary scum; whether they're 'republicans' or ââ¬Ëloyalistsââ¬â¢, theyââ¬â¢re all merely plastic Paddies and bullst Billies. I have family in Belfast and itââ¬â¢s no bloody joke. If itââ¬â¢s not Adairââ¬â¢s crowd pssing the lives of young Ulster-Scots away with heroin itââ¬â¢s the scumbag PIRA kneecapping any Gael who doesnââ¬â¢t tow the line.
Itââ¬â¢s not every day, outside the world of hip-hop or rap, that I get to hear drug pushers described as ââ¬Ëcommandosââ¬â¢. Adair is UFF not UVF and there is no love lost between those two organisations. If you were anything other than a plastic you would never make the mistake of calling ââ¬ËMad Dogââ¬â¢ UVF.
2003-10-28 17:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]If I take back what I said will it help you sleep at night? [/QUOTE]
Or if I provide an example will you at least give me some credit?
This thread on SF:
[url]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=96145[/url]
in which is a quote by poster "Charles A. Lindbergh":
[QUOTE]Thanks for pointing out the happy coincidence that Jew Oligarch Khodorokovsy was arrested immediately after the appearance of Mr. Strom's commentary. This just underscores the fact that the world's heads of state and security agencies are constantly online studying Mr. Strom.[/QUOTE]
He actually thinks that Putin is reading and hanging on every word written by KAS and acting accordingly? This is the kind of people I am talking about when I referred to those that think KAS will "save the world through his ADVs." Make no mistake; Putin (and the GRU) not only hasn't even heard of KAS but wouldn't so much as blink at anything he writes.
This Lindbergh then goes on to claim that PM Mahathir wrote his speech from one of Kevin's ADVs!!! His proof? One of KAS' ADVs was posted to an internet forum. Sure, whatever.
Listen to him and tell me if I am totally wrong about the KAS cult when he says:
[QUOTE]And, now, on cue from Mr. Strom Oligarch Jew Mikhail Khodorkovsky is rounded up! What major world event will Mr. Strom cue next?[/QUOTE]
I have no doubt that in the back of his mind he is deadly serious when he says these things.
2003-10-28 17:26 | User Profile
But here we are attacking each other, mainly over differences in approach.
Thank you, Jean West, for getting us back on track, or at least reminding us where the track is.
I've heard it said that there are more disgruntled ex-NA members than there are current members at any given time. The NA was a revolving door even when Dr. Pierce was alive. I know of one current member who's quit twice - he's on his third hitch.
Maybe Will Williams will return to the NA staff someday and maybe he won't, we'll see. Note that Ed Fields has joined up, how 'bout that?
Where I do disagree with Williams is over the rejection of Christians. While I hold with Pierce and Oliver, and for that matter Williams, in regard of the philosophy of the subject, I value and respect Christian patriots who understand the jew. I fear Williams' stated position will be perceived as hostility, in fact I fail to see how it cannot be so perceived. Is there any real need for that? Is that productive?
In my opinion, we don't reject anyone's efforts on our behalf, or condemn such headliners as Jared Taylor because they don't name the jew. I don't even condemn Buchanan, who presented us a chance at an embryonic political party and then ruined it by selecting Foster as a running mate, and permitting Bayh to purge the ranks of true WN. Talk about blunders, Will, top that.
The only thing we all agree on is that there is too much infighting and nowhere near enough unity. We must realize that, after identifying out-and-out threats like Bill White for what they are, the fighting must stop right there. I for one will keep my suspicions of Linder to myself from now on. Others can judge as well as I whether they want anything to do with him.
If I can make that concession, surely others can quietly stop attacking Francis, Buchanan, Taylor, Gliebe, Duke, et al? While it's true criticism can strengthen us and the truth shall out, we can certainly (try to) keep it at a non-toxic level.
2003-10-28 17:41 | User Profile
I must also point out that the real reason why KAS wrote that piece on Russia and Communism was to refute the article which was sent to him weeks before. And that was [I]Marxism Exposed![/I] See here:
[url]http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=10784[/url]
It was submitted to [I]NationalVanguard.org[/I] and rejected by KAS because the author didn't "criticize the Jews enough."
Thus Kevin writes in his ADV that:
[QUOTE]The important thing to note is not that most of the early Communists were Jews, or that Communism is a creation of the Jews, though those things are certainly true. The important thing to remember is that the Jews are a biological entity and Communism is merely a tool to them, to be fashioned and wielded and discarded at will.[/QUOTE]
Why is it important that they are biological? As opposed to what? Stick-men? The only important thing to note is that Communism is destroying our nations and our race as pointed out in [I]Marxism Exposed![/I]
He then goes on to say the following:
[QUOTE]It was and is a tool to be wielded to defeat and destroy other peoples, to rule over other peoples, to exterminate other peoples.[/QUOTE]
Sounds very similar to [I]Marxism Exposed![/I] Yet fails to mention who these "peoples" are. Further:
[QUOTE]When Communism ceased to be an effective tool of domination, it was discarded and other tools -- such as the neoconservatism which now rules the United States -- were fashioned and wielded to dominate and destroy non-Jewish peoples.[/QUOTE]
Communism was never discarded. It exists everywhere in the world. It just isn't called as such in places like America or Europe. But we are changing that.
Social Democracy and the leftwing agendas that are in abundance today are Communist. It's as simple as that. So when I say that Bush is a Communist we recognize that he isn't a Jew, but adheres to a Jewish political philosophy--yes, Jews have ideas and philosophies. Thus one cannot and should not blame everything on Jews when in fact Whites are being drawn into the destructive ideas. They are as much at fault as any else.
2003-10-28 19:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]Or if I provide an example will you at least give me some credit?
This thread on SF:
[url]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=96145[/url]
in which is a quote by poster "Charles A. Lindbergh":
"Thanks for pointing out the happy coincidence that Jew Oligarch Khodorokovsy was arrested immediately after the appearance of Mr. Strom's commentary. This just underscores the fact that the world's heads of state and security agencies are constantly online studying Mr. Strom."
He actually thinks that Putin is reading and hanging on every word written by KAS and acting accordingly? This is the kind of people I am talking about when I referred to those that think KAS will "save the world through his ADVs." Make no mistake; Putin (and the GRU) not only hasn't even heard of KAS but wouldn't so much as blink at anything he writes.
This Lindbergh then goes on to claim that PM Mahathir wrote his speech from one of Kevin's ADVs!!! His proof? One of KAS' ADVs was posted to an internet forum. Sure, whatever. ... I have no doubt that in the back of his mind he is deadly serious when he says these things.[/QUOTE] In your previous post you included links to two of Joseph Goebbels very good speechs. You need to go back and read the speech titled "Knowledge and Propaganda" yourself. CAL is simply engaging in a little propaganda of his own, which he often does at Stormfront. He's trying to encourage people to read or listen to the ADV broadcasts. He wants people to believe that progress is being made and that the White Nationalist message is getting out. It's just a way of boosting the morale of the troops so to speak, and from some of your comments it looks like you could use a little of this yourself.
[QUOTE]America has far bigger problems than the WN movement[/QUOTE]
I know why liberals and Jews think the WN [White Nationalist] movement is a problem for America but why do you think it's a problem?
2003-10-28 19:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mithras]Social Democracy and the leftwing agendas that are in abundance today are Communist. It's as simple as that. So when I say that Bush is a Communist we recognize that he isn't a Jew, but adheres to a Jewish political philosophy--yes, Jews have ideas and philosophies. Thus one cannot and should not blame everything on Jews when in fact Whites are being drawn into the destructive ideas. They are as much at fault as any else.[/QUOTE] On this point I agree: White traitors are our biggest problem and we should be heaping scorn, ridicule and abuse on them at every opportunity.
2003-10-28 19:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Wayland]In your previous post you included links to two of Joseph Goebbels very good speechs. You need to go back and read the speech titled "Knowledge and Propaganda" yourself. CAL is simply engaging in a little propaganda of his own, which he often does at Stormfront. He's trying to encourage people to read or listen to the ADV broadcasts. He wants people to believe that progress is being made and that the White Nationalist message is getting out. It's just a way of boosting the morale of the troops so to speak, and from some of your comments it looks like you could use a little of this yourself. [/QUOTE]
Propaganda and lying are two very different things. Besides, you missed the entire point that propaganda is [U]absolutely useless[/U] unless used by a political party. Show me that party! All of the NA's money on fliers and media is being wasted because it does not recruit fighters for a political movement. It is all negative criticism with nowhere to go. Don't you understand? There is no political party in the US.
[QUOTE]I know why liberals and Jews think the WN [White Nationalist] movement is a problem for America but why do you think it's a problem?[/QUOTE]
I think you misunderstood. I mean that America has more problems than the WNM has problems. The only significant problem that any nationalist in America should be concerned with is that [U]it has not a political party to represent it.[/U] Infighting as you call it is not a problem at all. But now you know what the (real) problem is.
2003-10-28 19:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Wayland]On this point I agree: White traitors are our biggest problem and we should be heaping scorn, ridicule and abuse on them at every opportunity.[/QUOTE]
I would however reply that they get tons of criticism from all over the political spectrum, but it does not amount to anything, because there is no oppositional party. There are Jews to the left and Jews to the right.
2003-10-28 21:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]I loath people who support paramilitary scum; whether they're 'republicans' or ââ¬Ëloyalistsââ¬â¢, theyââ¬â¢re all merely plastic Paddies and bullst Billies. I have family in Belfast and itââ¬â¢s no bloody joke. If itââ¬â¢s not Adairââ¬â¢s crowd pssing the lives of young Ulster-Scots away with heroin itââ¬â¢s the scumbag PIRA kneecapping any Gael who doesnââ¬â¢t tow the line.
Itââ¬â¢s not every day, outside the world of hip-hop or rap, that I get to hear drug pushers described as ââ¬Ëcommandosââ¬â¢. Adair is UFF not UVF and there is no love lost between those two organisations. If you were anything other than a plastic you would never make the mistake of calling ââ¬ËMad Dogââ¬â¢ UVF.[/QUOTE]
You're trying to bait and switch the issues. You see, in some ways I envy you...because you live in a place where you can afford to be a fifth columnist and hate your fellow Whites. We can't afford to do that in urban America.
I'll never understand the Irish Republican ethos...wage war on your ethnic brothers, while Europe is conquered by the Muslim horde. When your Papist churches have all been burned down and replaced by Mosques, and your women are raped by roving bands of Arabian thugs, do you still plan to hold beer hall rallies where you rail against the English?
2003-10-28 23:58 | User Profile
"jack_boot":..."I've heard it said that there are more disgruntled ex-NA members than there are current members at any given time. The NA was a revolving door even when Dr. Pierce was alive. I know of one current member who's quit twice - he's on his third hitch."
That is a non sequitur, and, BTW, "disgruntled" is not at all an accurate descriptor to apply to the great majority who have come and gone through the NA turnstile over the years, WAY too strong a word. It doesn't follow that because your friend has had his NA membership lapse a couple of times, or whatever, that the Alliance is therefore a revolving door organization. Most people who have left NA have done so as much more enlightened people than when they joined, and on good terms, many to go on to make their own marks. Just because a handful of vocal NA expatriates, all good men, but mostly just the core leadership of Billy Roper's White Revolution and Alex Linder, just because they have your attention on the 'Net doesn't speak for the thousands of former Alliance members who are thankful for what the Alliance has done for them, usually described as "life changing." I can't speak for what's going on today, but there was always relatively slow but steady growth in NA Membership during the ten years I was an active and involved cadreman. Membership climbed ten-fold during my stint, double the number of dues-paying members in good standing that Dr. Pierce thought would be required to reach the critical mass needed to sustain a viable White revolutionary movement in America. There was also a steadily growing -- thanks to having the 'Net dumped in our laps -- a solid core of highly networked, motivated supporters, team players who knew the rules and knew how to comport themselves to serve at the Chairman's pleasure creatively and independently to get things done. Dr. Pierce was very careful in choosing our battles and believed in running things professionally, like a successful business. He wasn't a particularly good business man and was always in need of more assistants at the National Office. Regardless, under Dr. Pierce's careful, focused eye, we could leverage our numbers and our influence better than anyone else in the White resistance has to date. Dr. Pierce, rightly emphasized building our own mass media over building membership and infrastructure. Membership is transitory and generational in Alliance-building, but building the "Voice" for Dr. Pierce's vision of a White Cosmotheist Community is forever. I think he got to say pretty much everything he needed to tell us in the 35 years he dedicated to our race -- it's all there, all archived. Any one of us can take his concepts, once we have assimilated them, and apply them independently in the real world, in our own lives. We do not need to preserve the organization as much as we need to preserve the idea. JOG can crush the org tomorrow, but that only serves to steel the resolve of those Dr. Pierce woke up and inspired to get involved.
"Maybe Will Williams will return to the NA staff someday and maybe he won't, we'll see."
It's not likely. I was recently married and just built a lovely little retreat on my homestead in southern Appalachia. I'm ready for domestication and the building of a family, thank you. I'd sort of like to hang on to this wife, and being on staff at the National Office is not conducive to marital bliss, believe me, I know.
"Note that Ed Fields has joined up, how 'bout that?"
How 'bout that? It seems to confirm the frightening trend toward a Xian outreach by NA, if Fields can actually get his core of "Xian Patriots" to join, that is. Like I said, I can't tell you how many times I told Fields, 'I am NOT a Xian patriot! If you will change that little box on the front of each issue of your paper to read 'Support Your Local White Patriot' instead of 'Support Your Local Xian Patriot,' then I'll distribute your paper. I am a White man, not a Xian!" I have other issues with Fields besides his idea that the White resistance is a Xian movement based on Xian principles, whatever in hell that means -- 'Love thine enemies,' certainly, and don't curse the Jew, praise him. That's the sort of nonsense that's in my family Bible.
"Where I do disagree with Williams is over the rejection of Christians."
Most of my extended family and neighbors are Xians. I do not "reject" them, but I certainly reject their passive, suicidal belief structure that is not grounded in reality and which impacts mightily on the mental health of our race. I try to teach them to use their heads, to not be taken in by big lies; to question everything. Like most of us, I've never had much luck converting family and friends to radical racial politics, so I quit wasting my breath on them long ago and concentrated on working primarily with those who agree with me already and seek me out. There are plenty! This is not to say that I reject most people, I'm just more selective. I'm cynical by nature, bordering on misanthropy, yet I know that it is both necessary and the right thing to do to try to arouse and organize our people into an effective resistance. Plus, a certain mystical purpose in life accrues to a race-fighter. I like that, as do most all of my friends. Xian or not, we all essentially share a National Socialist worldview and enjoy the fellowship of, as Tom Metzger calls it, being an island of sanity in a world gone stark raving mad. We are the elite. Some Jew shrink would manage to see some twisted pathology in such a statement, but we know better don't we?
"While I hold with Pierce and Oliver, and for that matter Williams, in regard of the philosophy of the subject, I value and respect Christian patriots who understand the jew. I fear Williams' stated position will be perceived as hostility, in fact I fail to see how it cannot be so perceived. Is there any real need for that? Is that productive?"
That depends. To what end do you think compromising a fundament of our belief for expediency will take a on hard line org like NA? I say another group will rise up and fill the void NA leaves as the top biologically-based outfit, soon after it goes Xian. If the hue and cry from people like myself gets Gliebe to back off on this ill-advised move, then all the better. My and others' perceived "hostility" may have paid off. Whatever I write here I will say to Erich's face, and probably already have.
"In my opinion, we don't reject anyone's efforts on our behalf, or condemn such headliners as Jared Taylor because they don't name the jew."
You don't, I do. I know that Jared knows better. I do not call honest criticism of a leader for using hypocritical half-measures "condemnation," or "rejection" of his entire body of work, either. I love Jared's Color of Crime and his Paved With Good Intentions, and much else that he dishes up for us. I like that we have a bona fide Yalee who requires coats and ties of attendees of his American Renaissance conferences, usually venued at classy 5-star hotels. We need that. We do not, however, need conferences where four and five Jews are featured speakers. That sux! We, as Aryans shouldn't be trying to outJew the Jew. Whenever the German Workers' Party announced a public meeting "No Jews Allowed" was printed across the bottom of every handbill and poster. Let's not forget that. When we say "No Jews Allowed" we mean no Jews.
"I don't even condemn Buchanan, who presented us a chance at an embryonic political party and then ruined it by selecting Foster as a running mate, and permitting Bayh to purge the ranks of true WN. Talk about blunders, Will, top that."
Buchanan blew our chance and wrecked the Reform Party! Where's the goddamned $12 million he got on the backs of those who believed his nationalistic rhetoric, those he turned his back on? Electoral politics are a joke. I got involved in the Reform Party because it gave me a chance to meet people and influence them. It's legal; they couldn't keep me out.
"The only thing we all agree on is that there is too much infighting and nowhere near enough unity. We must realize that, after identifying out-and-out threats like Bill White for what they are, the fighting must stop right there. I for one will keep my suspicions of Linder to myself from now on. Others can judge as well as I whether they want anything to do with him."
Alex screwed up big time, but he has a lot to offer and 's a survivor. He has gotten up, admitted his wrongs, and put his bloodied sholder back on the wheel. Hopefully, he will be more receptive and responsive to sound advice after such a major burn as he got for trusting Bill White.
"If I can make that concession, surely others can quietly stop attacking Francis, Buchanan, Taylor, Gliebe, Duke, et al? While it's true criticism can strengthen us and the truth shall out, we can certainly (try to) keep it at a non-toxic level."
Toxic people warrant strong anti-toxin. Bill White is one who deserves total shunning, Harold Covington another. This type of psychopath is rare and can not be tolerated at all in our circles. The people you mention are not toxic, but are productive at some level and deserve their due, but not a free pass when they come up short.
Will White Williams
2003-10-29 18:48 | User Profile
We're as close to complete agreement as two men can be, Will. And don't get me wrong on the NA, I'm a current member.
No jews, period. And Jared Taylor best get his house in order or AmRen will rot out just like the National Review.
I will be at the conference in February, however. Hope to make your acquaintance there, and everyone else on OD as well.
2003-10-30 16:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter E Kurtz]I'll never understand the Irish Republican ethos...wage war on your ethnic brothers, while Europe is conquered by the Muslim horde. When your Papist churches have all been burned down and replaced by Mosques, and your women are raped by roving bands of Arabian thugs, do you still plan to hold beer hall rallies where you rail against the English?[/QUOTE]
Listen Kurtz and listen real good because your UVF gaff would have landed stone cold dead amongst your heroes. The family I have in Belfast are Protestants, they are in-laws, my family in the South are Catholics. These are my people. You claim that Iââ¬â¢m a republican - without any shred of evidence ââ¬â because you have nothing of substance to say for yourself on the matter. You are a plastic and no different from the Irish-Americans who donate money to Sinn Fein. Nationalists are not republicans anymore than unionists are loyalists but - again - you wouldnââ¬â¢t know that because you're a plastic.
The matter Ulsterââ¬â¢s political status is not worth one single White life. If you are sincerely interested in a debate on the subject of Ulster than I suggest it can be continued in Stormfront Ireland or Stormfront Britain. There are more than a few plastics on that board so you will not be alone.
2003-10-30 21:27 | User Profile
[Quote=WhiteWill]Membership climbed ten-fold during my stint [in the National Alliance], double the number of dues-paying members in good standing that Dr. Pierce thought would be required to reach the critical mass needed to sustain a viable White revolutionary movement in America.[/QUOTE]
Hi Will,
Would you care to expound on this thought? Do we indeed have this critical mass?
Thanks,
IK
2003-10-31 03:38 | User Profile
IchKampfe: "Hi Will, Would you care to expound on this thought?"
When an organization can depend on regularly receiving so many thousands of dollars per month in pledged donations from its support base, it can then pay a staff and fund operations and publications without having to resort to expropriation and other illegal fund-raising.
It's sort of like a church or a political party except that JOG does not allow our supporters to exempt their donations to us from their taxes like with churches and political parties. That can really cramp one's abilities to attract funding, as anyone in the White resistance for any length of time can attest. Our people are tight. They want results before they will offer financial support where they get little in return, financially or materially.
"Do we indeed have this critical mass?"
I can't speak much for the current situation at the National Alliance. Rumors are that membership, hence Alliance income, have dropped off considerably since Dr Pierce's death, while expenses mount -- a formula for disaster if true and not reversed. The staff at the National Office is much smaller than a year ago and there has been a complete turnover in personel. The board of directors have either quit or been forced out by the new Chairman, Erich Gliebe. Alliance publications seem to all be way behind scheduled printings. Without good management and care everything Dr. Pierce built can be squandered.
"Thanks,"
You're welcome. 88!