← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Faust

Gun Building at home

Thread ID: 10563 | Posts: 52 | Started: 2003-10-17

Faust [OP]

2003-10-17 17:45 | User Profile

I have been do work on this topic for some Time and hope to have more soon.

[QUOTE]Gun Building at home

You can build a legal semi auto guns at Home. AR-15s, AKs, M-11 can be made without too much trouble. Semi auto AR-15, M-11 and AK can be made from sheet metal; AR-15 are most often made from AR castings, but some are Scratchbuilting them. Some are even building FALs, and 1911s but that looks much harder. A lot of stuff can be gotten for free on the web. And some good books are around too. Do some Web Searches and you find a lot of stuff. I am planning on getting Bill Holmes' Vol. V, it look like it has info that could be used to build a legal gun. The Submachines could reworked into closed bolt semi autos, with a bit of work. I have not tried any of this yet but it looks like fun.

Here Are some books Amazon.com sells.

Submachine Gun : Home Workshop Guns for Defense and Resistance

by Bill Holmes

Do-It-Yourself Submachine Gun : It's Homemade, 9mm, Lightweight, Durable-And It'll Never Be On Any Import Ban Lists! by Gerard Metral

Expedient Homemade Firearms : The 9mm Submachine Gun

by P.A. Luty

Home Workshop Guns for Defense & Resistance, Vol. V

by Bill Holmes

"The latest volume in this popular and timely series offers detailed instructions, complete with photos and machinist's drawings, for making a pistol-caliber AR-15/M16 entirely from raw materials, as either a rifle or pistol, open or closed bolt and in semi or full auto"

"According to US Federal law, it is legal for a private individual not otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm in the US to build their own firearm. The firearm must be a Title I firearm as outlined in the National Firearms Act of 1934 (among other things, no automatic firearms, no sound suppressors, etc.) and must comply with all other laws including the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994.That still leaves a very broad array of firearms that can be made by citizens. A serial number is not necessary as this firearm is made by a private individual for personal use - it cannot be made with the "intent" to sell it. The BATF recommends that the private builder put a serial number, but it is not required by US Federal law. Only licensed manufacturers (i.e. holder of a Type 07 or Type 10 Federal Firearms License) are required by law to put a serial number on their manufactured firearms. Note that the under US Federal law, the "receiver" is the part that is considered the actual "firearm" - other parts like the trigger group, barrel, bolt, etc. are just pieces of metal.

State law varies in the US, but private gunmaking by citizens is legal in most US states. It is the responsibility of the reader to check for himself. Some states may require a serial number."

Some links, I know of many more. Do some Web Searches and you find a lot of stuff. THE TANNERY SHOP

[url]http://www.tanneryshop.com/[/url] "bigger hammer"

[url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/[/url] AR Receiver

[url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/cad/ar15_receiver.pdf[/url] Sten Gun

[url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/sten/sten.pdf[/url] Project 6 - Scratchbuilt AR15 receiver

[url]http://www.geocities.com/elmgrove1765/proj...6/project6.html[/url] FTF Industries

[url]http://www.ftfindustries.com[/url]

Take a look at this. biggerhammer has lots more stuff. It took me over 3 hours to download the 9mm AR15 Blueprints. I going to being do a lot of it.

9mm AR15 Blueprints for Fabrication of own aftermarket unit (From Home Workshop Guns by Bill Holmes)

[url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/cad/9mm_ar15_homeconversion_blueprints.pdf[/url]

biggerhammer.net [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/[/url]

ar15 cad page [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/cad/[/url]

Firearm Patent [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/patents/[/url]

Firearms Technical Manuals and Blueprints [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/[/url]

[url]www.ar15.com[/url]

[/QUOTE]

Faust

2003-10-17 23:12 | User Profile

[B]Any thoughts or Ideas?[/B] :tank: :tank: :gunsmilie :gunsmilie

Franco

2003-10-18 01:58 | User Profile

I know of a gunsmith, on the web. Maybe I will flag him to OD and this thread...

:holiday:

Angler

2003-10-18 05:35 | User Profile

That's great that you're posting this stuff, Faust. I hope people are taking advantage of it.

Here are some thoughts for anyone who might be thinking about a do-it-yourself gun project:

While I think building a subgun could be a fun and useful project, my opinion is that people should focus more on rifles first. Only rifles can punch through body armor, and that will be exceedingly important when it becomes necessary to defend oneself against ZOG's enforcers.

Subguns do have the advantage of being relatively easy to construct, but the open-bolt firing mechanism of the typical subgun leads to poor accuracy. That's made all the worse when firing in full-auto mode. Full-auto fire works great in the movies, but in real life it is rarely effective in any magazine-fed, shoulder-fired weapon except at point-blank range. Even if you can control the vibration well enough to keep the rounds on target -- and that's easier said than done -- mags are obviously emptied very quickly on full-auto (2-3 seconds for a 30-round mag), and unexpectedly shooting a mag dry in the middle of a firefight is very bad for one's health. That applies in spades to anyone who might be fighting alone or in a very small group. Rapid semiauto fire is normally the best. Two-round bursts can also be very effective, but I wouldn't go higher than that.

I think one great project for a newbie gunmaker at this point in time is to buy a complete AR-15 upper receiver (with the barrel, bolt carrier, etc. included), then try to make the lower receiver. The upper receiver is unregulated and can be delivered right to one's door with zero paperwork. So, if a person makes his own lower receiver and then buys the rest of the gun, he has himself an "anonymous" AR-15 that he can hide anywhere until he needs it.

Here are some more AR-15 tips: For the upper receiver assembly, I recommend Bushmaster first and Armalite second. Make sure it has a chamber cut to military M16 (NATO-specified) dimensions (not SAAMI) and that its chamber and barrel are chrome-lined. Do not mess around with chrome-plated bolts or bolt carriers, and avoid titanium firing pins. Use what the military uses for all internal parts. Also, stick to USGI mags (but avoid Cooper and Sanchez) or use US-made Thermolds or Master Molders (not Canadian).

For those who want to buy a first rifle complete and don't mind the paper trail (it's not like you'll voluntarily give up your weapon anyway, right?) I'd start with an AK of some sort. Try here for starters: [url]http://www.ak-103.com/[/url]

I hope that helps someone out there....

Faust

2003-10-18 08:59 | User Profile

Angler,

Great Post. Yes a good idea.

[QUOTE] I think one great project for a newbie gunmaker at this point in time is to buy a complete AR-15 upper receiver (with the barrel, bolt carrier, etc. included), then try to make the lower receiver. The upper receiver is unregulated and can be delivered right to one's door with zero paperwork. So, if a person makes his own lower receiver and then buys the rest of the gun, he has himself an "anonymous" AR-15 that he can hide anywhere until he needs it. [/QUOTE]

This book tells how build a welded sheet steel lower receiver. it will also work on .223 AR not just the 9mm in the book title.

Home Workshop Guns for Defense & Resistance, Vol. V

9mm AR by Bill Holmes (3 hours to download) [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/cad/9mm_ar15_homeconversion_blueprints.pdf[/url]

9mm AR by Bill Holmes (amazon.com) [url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0873649486/[/url]

Model 1 Sales Inc. has a .223 $400 AR kits and 7.62x39mm kits for $465. (yes I do know not good as others.)

Bardamu

2003-10-18 16:51 | User Profile

Great post. I'm getting ready to go to the shooting range right now.

Second Amendment issues are the strongest argument for voting Republican that I can think of. The idea is to stay armed up until the time of the great dollar inflation which will probably mark the beginning of the end of the ZOG regime.

Faust

2003-10-19 00:50 | User Profile

Anyone want to build a Gatling Gun (ATF-not an NFA weapon!) :gunsmilie :gunsmilie

ATF on Gatling Guns [url]http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter14.txt[/url]

[QUOTE]RG-G Gatling gun .22 LR 600 rounds per minute. (Note: customers have successfully rescaled our plans to build Gatlings in other sizes and calibers.)

Blueprint Package Price: $58.97 (Price includes shipping within the U.S.)

[url]http://www.gatlingguns.net/[/url] [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]22 Calibre Half Scale 1875 British Naval Gatling Gun 700 - 1000 rounds per minute

Complete Sets of Working Drawings Under License $USD1,500 Buy a package including all the nuts & bolts, screws, springs, gears, firing pins, bearings, etc. To enable anyone to build their own gun. Add the feed ramp and large magazine if you wish (optional extras)

[url]http://www.machineguns.co.nz/Products.shtml[/url][/QUOTE]

Gatling Gun Builders Site [url]http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:TlWq424oYdEJ:home.attbi.com/~13thgod/gun_boxcam.htm+gatling+gun+plans&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/url]

A two-barrelled 'Gatling' kit An interesting project incorporating two Ruger 10/22 rifles.

[url]http://www.gatlingguns.com/[/url]

Ruger 10/22 so-called "Gatling" crank kits Links. [url]http://mem.tcon.net/users/5010/5491/gatling.htm[/url]

Searched the web for gatling gun. [url]http://www.google.com/search?q=gatling+gun&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N[/url]

Ausonius

2003-10-20 23:32 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Franco]I know of a gunsmith, on the web. Maybe I will flag him to OD and this thread...

:holiday:[/QUOTE]

You all already have a 'smithy in attendance....

Not blowing my own horn here, but those two years I spent in Denver were at a full-time, accredited trade school that teaches gunsmithing. Ran a full-time shop all of last year in another part of the US, until one of the owners and I had a falling out on how the business should be run (he was more after making money than quality. My name went on every finished piece, so naturally I was concerned with quality more than anything else). Decided that Mechanical Engineering pays a bit better than building rifles, so I started school again. I still build them, but just for me, maybe some friends (and the occasional comission piece) or a refinish/rechecker job on an old boltgun. Also the odd action job on a revolver or semi-auto for some of the local PD. BTW, a friend of mine is head of mounted officers way downstate in Alabama. He's trying to get the Mayor to fund me coming down there and build a dozen precision rifles for their SRT team that they're putting together.

Just one of those things that never came up in conversation here, I guess.

Ausonius

Bardamu

2003-10-21 00:36 | User Profile

Ausonius,

I'm getting ready to purchase my first pistol. I want a revolver. Considering a .38 snub nosed, am also considering a .22 for plinking on the cheap. What do you like in .22 revolvers?

Ausonius

2003-10-21 01:13 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Bardamu]Ausonius,

I'm getting ready to purchase my first pistol. I want a revolver. Considering a .38 snub nosed, am also considering a .22 for plinking on the cheap. What do you like in .22 revolvers?[/QUOTE]

Bardamu,

First, let me congratulate you. A new pistol shooter deciding to purchase a revolver (and a .22!!) shows a remarkable presence of mind (and I thought I was the last wheelgunner out there). Most just dive in with some overpriced semi-9mm thing and blast away, learn all kinds of bad habits and then give it up. Learning good shooting skills is more important than what you carry. But your question is a simple one with a not so simple answer. I guess you'd have to figure out what you want to use it for first. If just for learning/killing pop-cans/small game, it's very, very hard to beat the old S&W K-22 (pinned and recessed revolver.. if you do not know what this means, that's okay. It's a good thing. We can cover what that means later). Very accurate, last forever, excellent trigger, excellent sights, balances well and a clean used one will set you back about 250 bucks. Sometimes you can find them a bit cheaper if you buy privately, maybe a buck seventy-five or so. .38 snubbies are only good at up-close and personal ranges, for most people.

If it's for personal defense, I would not choose the .22. Though I would not want to get shot with a .22 caliber anything, there are better out there. If it is intended for personal defense, I would go with something along the lines of the enclosed hammer .357 S&W's that are out there (which means you have to buy two sidearms instead of one.. oh darn, unlucky you). Stainless, pack a good wallop, without sharp edges anywhere, and the enclosed hammer will let you fire it inside a coat pocket or baggy pants pocket (if you don't mind blowing holes in your favorite jacket or pants) without getting anything hung up. I believe the model designator is the S&W M640 (the 940 is the 9mm version of it... stay away. I have had bad juju with that one). Do NOT buy one of the [I]new[/I] ones. They use what I consider to be low-quality parts inside, plus they have this faggy lock/key thing to disable the revolver. It looks like hell and people are actually paying guys just like me to remove them and weld up the hole and dress it off so you cannot see it anymore. Either that, or they just turn the key and toss it. Go with the 640 for personal defense in a revolver if you do not want custom work, but only after you learn how to handle wheelguns (they are a different animal.. simpler, but more complex at the same time. Zenny, I know, but it's true).

Ausonius

Postscript: If you're going to be using a holster, and not carry in a pocket, I have had excellent results (and own/carry several of the following) with these revolvers:

Colt Detective Special, 3rd Variant, .38 SPL S&W M57, heavily modified, .41 Mag Colt Anaconda, heavily modified, .45 Colt S&W M686+, performance center, .357 mag S&W M629, heavily modified, .44 mag Colt Combat Carry, stock, .357 mag S&W M625, medium modification, .45 Colt

(Model designator has been changed to M57.. it's what I get for posting when I'm tired. Sorry about the typo)

MadScienceType

2003-10-21 01:21 | User Profile

Second Amendment issues are the strongest argument for voting Republican that I can think of.

Maybe...

Under Reagan, we got the full-auto ban, though to be fair, I don't think he knew it was hidden in the FOPA act of 1986.

What else? Bush in '89 signed the import ban, which means we all have to pay attention to the stupid ten-part rule, lest the ATF crawl up our asses with a microscope. Bushie's daddy also increased the funding of the ATF and let 'em and the FBI have free reign, leading directly to Ruby Ridge and Waco (yeah, I know Waco happened under Clinton, but the policies were put in place under HW Bush).

The 1994 AW ban. OK, that was a democratic monster, but the Repubs didn't put up much of a fight.

The real litmus test of whether or not the Repubs are worth a sh*t when it comes to shootin' irons is when the '94 AW ban approaches expiration next year. They could easily block it, since it's set to expire automatically, requiring new legislation to renew it. I really don't know if Bush will dare sign any new legislation, since it looks like he's gonna need every vote he can get, but he's unpleasantly surprised me before. Personally, I'd love to be able to buy new 30-round AK and AR mags for $5 again and have a collapsible stock, but I ain't holding my breath. :dry:

He's trying to get the Mayor to fund me coming down there and build a dozen precision rifles for their SRT team that they're putting together.

I hope they're on our side...

I'm getting ready to purchase my first pistol. I want a revolver.

I know you didn't direct the question at me, Bardamu, but what's your budget and why specifically a revolver. There are some pretty good autoloading .22 pistols out there for modest prices.

Beats me about .38s, but S&W used to be the standard, though I hear the QC isn't as good as it used to be. Taurus I think is pretty good, but never owned or shot one so I can't say for sure. You might try the surplus market.

Ausonius

2003-10-21 01:33 | User Profile

[QUOTE]I hope they're on our side...

I know you didn't direct the question at me, Bardamu, but what's your budget and why specifically a revolver. There are some pretty good autoloading .22 pistols out there for modest prices.

They are, not to worry. I choose who I work for, not them, me. If they were a bunch of robot stormtroopers, no way. I trust my friend's judgement.

Taurus has okay QC, but not on par with, say, mid-1950s' or early 1960's S&W's and Colt in their heyday. But then, we'll never see that like again. Those were put together by craftsmen, not fat minorities slamming parts together. I toured S&W recently, and I almost had a coronary when I saw how they put stuff together. Colt used to be a bunch of ass-kickers, especially when it came to the Python and some of the custom shop stuff, but when they decided to pull the rug out from under the rest of us and not sell civillians anything anymore, they almost lost me. Lucky they fired the SOB who though that up and got someone good in there.

Ausonius

A good used .22 autoloader would be the Colt Woodsman, the High Standard HD or Model B, the Ruger isn't bad, but I don't like castings. The Colt Ace conversion for the 1911A1 is okay, but pricey.

travis

2003-10-21 01:39 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Ausonius] Decided that Mechanical Engineering pays a bit better than building rifles, so I started school again. [/QUOTE] My take on the gunsmithing occupation is that anyone who has enough intelligence, skill and patience to make a living at something that tedious and subject to intense scrutiny could probably make a helluva lot better living doing something else. I'm glad you are pursuing something more lucrative.

Faust's suggestion to build guns compels me to warn my fellow WN's just how labor intensive such a project is and that good used guns can be purchased cheap and without paperwork. Unless we are consciously approaching this as a hobby, our time is better spent pursuing that which returns us the greatest monetary gain and purchasing guns outright.

You can't compete with mass production.

Bardamu

2003-10-21 02:05 | User Profile

[QUOTE=MadScienceType]I know you didn't direct the question at me, Bardamu, but what's your budget and why specifically a revolver. There are some pretty good autoloading .22 pistols out there for modest prices.

Why I think I like revolvers, other than the reliability factor, is aesthetics. I like the way they look, and the sounds they make when you spin the wheel. I shot a Ruger Mark 2 at the shooting lane. It jammed constantly, but then it was a rental gun. Actually, when it comes to .22's I haven't found a wheel gun that I like yet. A friend says, if you go .22 purchase the automatic Beretta. This is for plinking, cheaply, in the woods, nothing else. So far as getting a large bore weapon, I don't have $1200 to spend, and I want something light with ease of portability. For home protection, I plan to purchase Mossberg. The one that comes with two interchangable barrels, one long and one short.. I have a budget of about $500 for this pistol, if new. I have no idea how to purchase a used gun from a private individual. How do I tell if the person is reputable?

MadScienceType

2003-10-21 02:06 | User Profile

S&W M41, heavily modified, .41 Mag

Sweeeet. I love the .41 Mag as a caliber. I to this day don't know why the cartridge never took off, as I thought it a great compromise between the .357 and full-power .44 loads, which are fun to shoot, but I can't control wheelguns of that oomph well enough to shoot 'em fast and accurately. One or the other, but not both! I'd love to find a used S&W .41 Mag in good condition, but I bet I'd pay a pretty penny for it, and I'm still getting together all the "must-have" pieces before I start on the "nice-to-haves."

They are, not to worry. I choose who I work for, not them, me. If they were a bunch of robot stormtroopers, no way. I trust my friend's judgement.

Good to know...

By the way, if you ever get down Texas way, be sure to PM me. I'd love to go to the range with a gunsmith in tow!

not fat minorities slamming parts together. I toured S&W recently, and I almost had a coronary when I saw how they put stuff together.

You gotta be kidding me! I guess that's what CNC machining has done for us. As long as the parts are within tolerance, any idiot appears to be good enough to slap 'em together. Sad.

Ausonius

2003-10-21 10:12 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Bardamu]Why I think I like revolvers, other than the reliability factor, is aesthetics. I like the way they look, and the sounds they make when you spin the wheel. I shot a Ruger Mark 2 at the shooting lane. It jammed constantly, but then it was a rental gun. Actually, when it comes to .22's I haven't found a wheel gun that I like yet. A friend says, if you go .22 purchase the automatic Beretta. This is for plinking, cheaply, in the woods, nothing else. So far as getting a large bore weapon, I don't have $1200 to spend, and I want something light with ease of portability. For home protection, I plan to purchase Mossberg. The one that comes with two interchangable barrels, one long and one short.. I have a budget of about $500 for this pistol, if new. I have no idea how to purchase a used gun from a private individual. How do I tell if the person is reputable?[/QUOTE]

Go here, it's a fairly good start:

[url]www.gunsamerica.com[/url]

Periodicals include Gun List (best one out there), Shotgun News (okay, but too many ads) and one or two other regional ones. The comes gun shows. You can pick up the periodicals at any Barnes and Nobel, newspaper kiosk, etc... subscriptions won't break you and, for 500 bones, you can get [I]both[/I] that K-22 smith for playing and practice and a M36 Chief snubby in .38 spl. Just do a little footwork.

Ausonius

2003-10-21 10:30 | User Profile

[QUOTE=travis]My take on the gunsmithing occupation is that anyone who has enough intelligence, skill and patience to make a living at something that tedious and subject to intense scrutiny could probably make a helluva lot better living doing something else. I'm glad you are pursuing something more lucrative.

You can't compete with mass production.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate the support re: seeking more and higher education, but I would not classify building rifles as 'tedious'. I thought it was excellent fun. Dealing with Joe Asshole the customer was tedious (of course, ony about every 5th guy was Joe Asshole, but he made up for the other 80% being okay guys), building rifles, especially really really nice ones, is my little way of making myself immortal. My name goes on every rifle I make, stamped into the steel and under the buttplate.

With regards to labor intensiveness, you're right. It takes me between 250 and 400 man-hours to build a rifle from nothing and be able to hit a dime with it at 100 meters. And I know what I'm doing. Building a battle carbine should not be nearly as tough, so long as headspace is set by someone who is competant. I think it would take me about 4 hours to put one together if I did not have to set headspace aka: install the barrel correctly or do any refinish work. Just be sure to follow ATF guidelines to the letter.

With regards to making them at home from scratch: Knowing how to do something is excellent. A firearm need not be state of the art to be good at what it was intended. I remember seeing a revolver that had been handmade in the Phillipines during the second world war with nothing but a bastard file and a drill. It worked well enough to account for 6 of the enemy. There is much worth in knowledge, and hopefully the day will never come when we cannot own firearms. But if that day comes, then knowing how to make them, [I]good ones[/I], will be a very handy skill to have. There is nothing cost effective about building your own, but then, there isn't anything cost effective about building a kit car, either. You do it because you [I]can[/I].

Ausonius

All Old Right

2003-10-22 02:06 | User Profile

It's tough to find good .22 revolvers anymore. I had a 9 shot (Rossi I think)that I like. My Taurus has a terrible trigger and the cheap grips aren't great. All of this business over mag restrictions has me burned out on semi-autos. The next thing you know, mag capacity will go from 10 in a mag to 5-6.

Bardamu

2003-10-22 02:16 | User Profile

[QUOTE=All Old Right]It's tough to find good .22 revolvers anymore. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's what I figure. I'm going ahead with the .38 snubbie.

All Old Right

2003-10-22 07:05 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Bardamu]Yeah, that's what I figure. I'm going ahead with the .38 snubbie.[/QUOTE] It might just be me, but you can fire .38 in .357s. That way you'd have a decent little working gun that fires two common calibers. I've heard not to go less than 3 inch barrel on .357. It still might be rough shooting at 3 inches, but I like knowing I have a choice of two calibers in a pinch. Just my 2 cents, but I'm no expert on the matter.

Ausonius

2003-10-22 10:26 | User Profile

[QUOTE=All Old Right]It might just be me, but you can fire .38 in .357s. That way you'd have a decent little working gun that fires two common calibers. I've heard not to go less than 3 inch barrel on .357. It still might be rough shooting at 3 inches, but I like knowing I have a choice of two calibers in a pinch. Just my 2 cents, but I'm no expert on the matter.[/QUOTE]

Hey All Old Right,

If you can afford one, here's one that even I haven't been able to find at the local gunshop yet:

[url]http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976387432.htm[/url]

or this one:

[url]http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976377412.htm[/url]

and it don't get much better than this little honey:

[url]http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976358143.htm[/url] (and still NIB!!)

Ausonius

madrussian

2003-10-22 21:02 | User Profile

[QUOTE=new and improved]Hey Ausonius -

If not, do you know of any good materials...books or video or Internet, that will prevent a newbie from developing bad habits?

[/QUOTE]

Don't hold the piece "gagsta"-style, and don't fire from both hands, no matter how "cool" holliwitz tries to portray that :lol:

Ausonius

2003-10-23 01:39 | User Profile

[QUOTE=new and improved]Hey Ausonius -

I enjoy your posts on this thread.

I too am about to buy my first firearm. Since my initial objective is to learn how to shoot, I plan to get a .22 with a 4" barrell. My thinking is that the ammo will be inexpensive, and the barrell length will improve accuracy. Any input?

Also you mentioned bad habits; I want to avoid this from the beginning. I'm guessing that everything from how to grip to foot or shoulder placement makes a big difference. Is this something you care to write about? If not, do you know of any good materials...books or video or Internet, that will prevent a newbie from developing bad habits?

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

New & Improved,

Now I know why I like coming here... another one playing it smart. You are exactly right in thinking that a .22 will be an excellent beginner's chassis to learn on. A few thoughts:

Barrel length does not mean so much as quality of barrel, quality of firearm and quality of ammo. I knew a guy who could cut the X ring all day with a 2 1/2 in barreled revolver at 10 yards. Any of the revolvers I named earlier would be excellent, though some were made for target shooting, and will be more expensive. Buy the best you can afford, since .22 revolvers rarely wear out. It is almost impossible to "shoot out" a .22lr barrel. (I have been shooting the same marlin Model 39 that my father bought in 1941 my whole life with no loss of accuracy. One of my favorite things to attempt was to shoot a playing card in half edgewise with one shot at 25 feet with that old gun. I only pulled it off about a half a dozen times in my whole life and damn near shot a treestump in half (the cumulation of many bricks of .22 ammo being expended into it) over the last 20 years). If I remember correctly, Al Topperwein shot 100,000 sqaures of wood thrown in the air one at a time with only 6 misses back in the 1930's. It can be done. Generally, though, a 4in bull barrel will balance better in your hand, shifting the balance towards the muzzle slightly, and will stabilize it better in your hand, making you a better shot in turn (this is where the 'bull barrels are more accurate than other kinds' myth came from). Whatever you buy, it is very important that it has good sights. Sights are for looking [I]through[/I], not [I]for[/I].

The first thing you should do after you purchase your new prize is clean it. And I mean, [B]C-L-E-A-N[/B]. Don't scrub with steel wool or anything, but get a good bunch of cleaning supplies (shameless plug for M Pro-7 here), find a quiet spot and clean it. Since it will be a revolver, you will have to clean the barrel from the front, so pay special attention to the crown. Don't dig the cleaning rod into the crown (last thing the bullet touches as it leaves the barrel... it is [I]critical[/I] that this not be damaged). Don't cheap out and use a surplus G.I. sectional steel cleaning rod.. they suck and actually damage the piece. Invest in a Dewey one piece cleaning rod for pistols (nylon coated steel.. best out there), use a cleaning jag to patch the bore, not that goofy eye of the needle thing.. running a patch through the barrel cleans in out.. dragging it back through is stupid and makes double work. Jags automatically jettison the patch when you try to pull the rod back through the barrel. Scrub the cylinder face with a toothbrush and whatever cleaning medium of choice you have. Older revolvers were built to higher tolerances than today's, and they will bind if the face of the cylinder gets an accumulation of powder residue and lead (especially .22's with unjacketed lead projectiles.. the back end of the projo actually vaporizes slightly and it flares out to make a good seal. The lead accumulates and eventually jams the revolver). Buy Q-Tips. Lots of them. As in: Go to Sam's and get the 5000 pack. I'm not kidding. I go through hundreds of them in a week, and you can bend them to get into some tight spots, wiping out corners and swabbing cleaning solvent out of an action (assuming you know anything about disassembly/assembly). Once it is clean, then go buy a brick (500 rounds) of [I]jacketed[/I] .22 match ammunition from a known manufacturer (Winchester, Remington, etc.. do NOT buy Wolf ammo. Their QC is iffy sometimes IMHO).

Next step is to seek professional counsel. Get with a local shooting range and find out when the NRA Pistol instructor is getting his classes on. Join them and learn how to shoot correctly. I had to unlearn tons of bad habits because I was vain enough to assume that, because I was a guy, I had some genetic predisposition towards unsurpassed gun handling skills. Do yourself a favor now and admit that you don't know what you're doing, and learn what you can from someone who is a qualified instructor. I'm not trying to talk down to you, just telling you the process I had to go through when I got [I]serious[/I] about learning how to shoot. I admitted to myself I knew Jack Shit (and Jack left town) and went begging for advice. Hard pill to swallow, but it paid off in spades.

If you are not near a range that offers NRA-Certified instruction, several books are out there by shootists that have been in the game longer than I have.. Jeff Cooper wrote copiously about both pistol and rifle handling (still does last I heard of him). Bill Wilson, I believe, is an old law-dog that wrote many early books on pistolcraft back in the 40's and 50's, and of course Elmer Keith (father of the .44 Magnum) old cowboy, long gone to his reward, God bless him.... do a search at Brownell's and you'll get all kinds of hits. Paladin Press too. Buy several and read them.

Once you get good habits, shoot. A [I]Lot[/I]. I mean as often as you can. Outdoors, indoors, at moving targets, long range, hip shooting.. make it so that it feels like eventually you are shooting with your index finger (like a kid playing cowboys and indians). Then move up in caliber to something heavier, but the good thing is that excellent revolvers were built on either the same frame, or on frames of similar dimensions with the same control layout, meaning it won't be all that hard to transition. Once you are comfortable there, move up again. My current pet is a 3in-barreled S&W 629 in .44 mag. I can shoot that comfortably all day, fast or slow (this also applies to heavy recoiling rifles.. if you learn to shoot correctly and move up in increments, eventually you will be able to handle anything at all).

You don't have to buy rare or super-customized revolvers. Just a good, used, solid revolver that was made correctly. Hard to go wrong with the older target model S&W's or Colt's.

Ausonius

Faust

2003-10-23 05:18 | User Profile

Building AK-47s

Building AK-47 Receiver: [url]http://www.geocities.com/homebrewkits2000/Cover.html[/url]

AK 47 in DWG [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak_blueprint.zip[/url]

AK47 v2 [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak_blueprints_v2.pdf[/url]

AK47 Drawing [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/AK47receiverplan_rev2.pdf[/url]

MadScienceType

2003-10-23 14:04 | User Profile

My current pet is a 3in-barreled S&W 629 in .44 mag.

Sounds like a nice piece, but is the muzzle blast pretty severe with a 3" tube? Do you reload? I hear it's a good idea to load down with the .44 (to near .44 Special loads) to begin practice with and work up to full-power .44 Mag loads.

Mostly I like autos, specifically the 1911, but then I've liked them since before the whole "tactial" 1911 fad got started, or "tactical" everything, I guess. I suppose if they put "tactical" in front of a can opener, some Rambo-wannabes would buy the thing. I'd like to get into wheelguns, but as I said before, I had to get the necessities before I acquired anything else. I'm actually a better shot with a pistol than rifle, though I'm trying to correct that!

Anyway, I wanted to ask you Ausonius, what you'd recommend as a good starting wheelgun for me. I'd like something in a decent-sized caliber (I mentioned a .41 Mag, but I'd like to keep the price under $700 or so, so I think that would be out) since I don't need to worry about flinching so much, as +P .45 loads don't bother me, but does the bbl-cyl gap make a difference as far as flinching goes? Oh, I'd like a DA as well. I don't think a .480 Ruger or a .454 Casull is a great idea for me, though!

Faust,

Thanks for the links. I'm thinking of putting together an AK-74 on one of the Bulgy parts kits on the market, but I think I'm gonna wait on final assembly to see if the '94 AW ban sunsets so I don't have to file off the bayonet lugs and have to weld the brake on (by the way, one of my pet peeves in gun rags is referring to a muzzle brake as a muzzle "break." Why would I want to "break" the muzzle of my gun?) and maybe even put a folding stock on it, but I don't think I'll hold my breath too long hoping, you know?

P.S. Ausonius, I know what you mean about the Q-tips. I've got an AR-15 and I go through what seems like several hundred just cleaning (biggest headache about the AR-15/M-16 is cleaning the darn thing) after a day at the range. Oh yeah, can you usually find M Pro-7 at gun shops or is it mail-order time?

madrussian

2003-10-23 15:51 | User Profile

Re: Q-tips

In the then Soviet Army the only cleaning supplies available to a soldier were gun oil and cotton cloth. No solvent. Still didn't take much to clean the AK.

The toughest part was the very tip of the barrel, where carbon was clearly seen on its relatively rough chromed surface. For some reason it wasn't polished as, for example, gas piston, and carbon stuck to it pretty well. Some used fine sandpaper (strongly discouraged). Without solvent, it was a bitch. The next toughest was the gas piston, but since it was polished very well, a few scrubs were usually enough.

Ausonius

2003-10-24 02:57 | User Profile

Okay, y'all, this'll be a two parter:

[QUOTE]Sounds like a nice piece, but is the muzzle blast pretty severe with a 3" tube? Do you reload? I hear it's a good idea to load down with the .44 (to near .44 Special loads) to begin practice with and work up to full-power .44 Mag loads.

Yes, it is severe, but like I said, anything is manageable as long as you work up to it. The .357 isn't bad, my opinion the .41 is better and a good bridge between the .44 and the .357. Though .41 ammo can be hard to find. I did a search and came up with these fairly quickly, so they can be found if you're willing to look a bit:

[url]http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976373063.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976336007.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976338556.htm[/url]

And this one is a fair representation of my baby, but without the faggy rubber grips. Mine are African Bloodwood (harder than Koa and Gaboon Ebony. Jet black with very dark red streaks):

[url]http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976385650.htm[/url]

All of these are quality firearms under 700 bucks. The S&W 57 would be my choice for a non-.44 mag handgun if I did not want a .357 (.41 mag and adjustable sights, the 58 has fixed low profile sights and would be excellent for carry). Anything that does not have a "6" in it's model number is okay (non-pinned and recessed guns all have designators like 657, 686, 629... the [I]good[/I] ones, the P&R guns, all have the old numbering system.. M57, M29, M41 etc.. )

Yes, I reload, and yes, I do load down sometimes, but only to save on powder. If I want some foo-foo rounds, I usually buy cowboy .44 Spl loads and run those. They make a "piff" noise and the handgun barely moves. Hell, if you're in the right spot behind me, you can [I]watch[/I] the projo's go downrange. But handloads are not jury-proof. If I carry it, I run factory loads only.

Heh, you're right about 'tactical'. I made the observation once that you could spraypaint a dog turd flat black and glue some velcro to it and some fool would buy it. Stay away from anything with the word 'tactical' in it unless it comes from a nationally known smithy (but those are big bucks). You can handload the .41 mag all day with minimal investment (under $200 bucks) and really have fun.

Part II:

[QUOTE]Re: Q-tips

In the then Soviet Army the only cleaning supplies available to a soldier were gun oil and cotton cloth. No solvent. Still didn't take much to clean the AK.

The AK-series is a tractor. It's good to about 250 meters or so, ballistically, though, the 7.62 russian round is a match for a 30-30. It was designed to run in all conditions and be handed to conscripted troops who had little to no training whatsoever and work every time. Bury it in the ground for a month in the rain, dig it up, load it and it will work. It is excellent for what it is. Better than our M16 series anyway, even though ours has the edge in accuracy. In all honesty, I would use carburator cleaner for cleaning out the brake. God's honest. Spray that stuff on it, let it soak and get a stiff bristled brush and go to town. Either that, or strip all the plastic/wood off it, dump the whole mess in a automotive parts cleaner/vibrator and go get lunch. Come back, blast it off with compressed air and go back to the range. I would never, ever do that to any of my own rifles, but, hey, it's an AK... it's not like you're gonna hurt it or anything, and so what if you ruin the finish. Go down to WalMart, but a couple 2 or 3 cans of texture earth tone cans of spraypaint and give it a camo job.

Ausonius

MadScienceType

2003-10-24 15:04 | User Profile

Ausonius,

Thanks a bunch for your tips and the sites. Agreed on the M57. I like that frame and the fully-shrouded ejector. Put some nice-looking grips on and you're ready to roll! Only thing about it is I'm not a big fan of nickel finishes, but I can deal with that. I much prefer that rich bluing S&W used to put on their revolvers, even though I know the blue finish takes a little more TLC to keep nice.

Very nice piece represented there. I'm sure yours looks pretty stunning with the Bloodwood grips. Post a pic if you get a chance!

Though .41 ammo can be hard to find.

No prob there. I reload also, and SGN is full of sources for brass and bullets, so I can work up some foo-foo loads myself while getting used to the DA trigger, since Ed McGivern I ain't!

But handloads are not jury-proof. If I carry it, I run factory loads only.

Amen to that. I don't know that handloads have ever been successfully used in a conviction that wouldn't have otherwise resulted, but given the slimy nature of lawyers, why take the chance? Plus, the inevitable civil affair bears considering too.

As for carry, I'll probably stick to the 1911 for now, since I like the ability to top off the gun w/o dumping whatever rounds I have left in the mag/cylinder. Of course that's mostly academic, I s'pose, given the nature of most SD shootings. Besides, I'm not used to a DA trigger, but once I do get there, I might switch, since I like the idea of point-and-shoot without having to worry about disengaging a safety and all.

My uncle used to have (he may still) an M27 (I think that's the right designation) that was a .357 Mag on the M29 .44 Mag frame with a 6 & 3/4" bbl. Those cylinder walls were thick! We worked up some pretty high-pressure loads, they might have been fairly close to .357 Maximum loads, but can't say for sure. Didn't chrono them or anything, but the muzzle flash was impressive to say the least, as were the terminal effects on bowling pins and the like. Recoil actually wasn't too bad, considering, because of the gun's weight. Surprised we didn't break anything on the gun, though.

Thanks again for the info. I'm going to start rooting around for one. I wouldn't buy a new production one probably, due to the QC issues you mentioned before, but I wonder if the custom shop makes a .41. Even if they did, I'll be it would be waaaaaay expensive.

Stay away from anything with the word 'tactical' in it unless it comes from a nationally known smithy (but those are big bucks).

Yeah, SGN is full of that 'tactical' stuff. My mid-range Kimber does everything I ask of it. I just can't understand paying $2500+ for a frigging handgun just cause it has 'tactical' and some IPSC guru's name on it.

Ausonius

2003-10-24 23:37 | User Profile

[QUOTE]As for carry, I'll probably stick to the 1911 for now, since I like the ability to top off the gun w/o dumping whatever rounds I have left in the mag/cylinder. Of course that's mostly academic, I s'pose, given the nature of most SD shootings. Besides, I'm not used to a DA trigger, but once I do get there, I might switch, since I like the idea of point-and-shoot without having to worry about disengaging a safety and all.

My uncle used to have (he may still) an M27 (I think that's the right designation) that was a .357 Mag on the M29 .44 Mag frame with a 6 & 3/4" bbl. Those cylinder walls were thick! We worked up some pretty high-pressure loads, they might have been fairly close to .357 Maximum loads, but can't say for sure. Didn't chrono them or anything, but the muzzle flash was impressive to say the least, as were the terminal effects on bowling pins and the like. Recoil actually wasn't too bad, considering, because of the gun's weight. Surprised we didn't break anything on the gun, though.

You could do way worse than the 1911A1. It gets my vote for winter carry (too big to conceal in summer with light clothing), that, or a H&K USP Compact. I approve of that choice 100%. There are a couple of advantages that a revolver has over a 1911A1 (or any semi-auto), but bringing them runs the risk of starting a war (and because I'm crunched for time), they can wait till another day.

You're correct about the M27. I had one for awhile. Built like a bank vault. I rebarreled it with a 4" tube. Nice rig, and an excellent chassis for experimentation, though remember that you can blow [I]anything[/I] up if you try hard enough, even a .22.

I've had both Colt and S&W do some custom stuff for me (one on an Anaconda in .45 Colt and the other on a S&W 686-Plus.. no, neither one are for sale, so don't bother asking :) ), and yes, it is expensive. Very. Don't fool with it unless you have the money to spend and the time to wait (it takes months sometimes). Only thing I would do to the older S&W's is convert that M58 from square butt to round butt and do a trigger job. It requires some medium level sugery, but it's fairly straighforward, and doing a trigger on the older S&W's is a breeze. The M58 is a N-Frame, meaning that the inside of the frame will need to be welded up so you can convert it to the round butt profile. I've converted a couple, and it usually takes about a day to do the whole thing once you do a few and get good at it. Stick with the 4" tube in the .41 You'll not realize a whole lot of ballistic advantage with those extra 2" or so. Plus, if you carry it, it's like trying to conceal a thermos bottle in your coat. Stick with the 4" tube. Sidenote: The older 657's and 658's were not bad. New ones blow chunks, but the older ones from the 70's and 80's are okay. Just have a good smithy go over them. Plus, some were stainless, which is an advantage)

You might give thought to those M57's. The ones with the low profile sights. If you had a mind (I see what things CAN be, not what they are) you could have the rear of the frame dovetailed by the S&W performance center (or competant Pistolsmith) and have a set of Tritium sights installed (would require the front sight being drilled, but so what?) convert that to round butt, do an action job and you're in business. Of course, I would install some badass exotic grips, like, oh, I dunno.. howabout Screwbean Mesquite? (AKA: Desert Ironwood). Would take a month of Sunday's to make them, but so what? Check this out:

[url]http://www.sixgunner.com/blumagnum/default.htm[/url]

Check the grips patterned after the old Skeeter Skelton ones... sweeeet. This guy knows what he's doing. I've spoken to him on the phone, and if you provide the wood, he'll do the work. Harder the wood, the more silicates that are in it, the price goes up.

I'll put more sites up as I have a mind to.. no sense in letting all you mugs know my contacts :lol: . I'd never get any business.

[QUOTE]Thanks a million, Ausonius. I've printed your post and am set up for good research. I've learned to embrace the "beginner" title in all new pursuits, as it is the surest, fastest way out of that category. I'll post more later when I've made my purchase. There are many remote places to shoot 'round here, as well as a range w/NRA instruction. This is something I've wanted to get into for a long time, so I'm very excited. [/QUOTE]

Anytime. I really enjoy teaching, especially when folks are this enthusiastic. Sometimes, given our political environment, I feel pretty damn unappreciated when folks find out what I do. Some just go glassey eyed and say "Oh how nice" and switch the subject. Too bad you don't live anywhere near the Bluegrass. I'd teach you everything you never wanted to know about revolvers. Especially about what to look for when buying a used one. If you want me to go over that stuff too, I can.

Ausonius

Faust

2003-10-25 03:15 | User Profile

Ausonius,

Any ideas on building homemade guns. Take a look at this home made AR lower receiver. I saved this picture from a now dead website. The finished gun looked odd but he said it worked.

Ausonius

2003-10-25 12:08 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Faust]Ausonius,

Any ideas on building homemade guns. Take a look at this home made AR lower receiver. I saved this picture from a now dead website. The finished gun looked odd but he said it worked.[/QUOTE]

Faust,

Firearms need not be pretty to function. If it were me wanting to build my skills up, I would take some basic machining courses at the local tech school and get one of those 1500 buck mill/drill/lathes and play with it in the basement. They're not all that great for the pro, but for someone who is learning, they cannot be beat. I came across this while doing some research for you:

[url]http://www.righthook.com/homeworkshop.html[/url]

These guys seem to have it going on. I would read a few of these books (along with several others) just to build a good base of knowledge. I also came across these pictures to show you how far some people are willing to go to circumvent the government and acquire guns.
I'll also stick up a bunch of book titles that I have in my library that are good for anyone to have. The receiver parts that you attached to your post seem to be well-made, and very well may work without a hitch. Better than the ones I stuck on here. I did so to illustrate the desperation of some people. The two illustrate my point nicely about getting training. 6 months of part-time evening courses at the local tech school is all you need. I would highly reccomend that first before taking off and trying to build something.

Ausonius

PS These 4 were taken from a south african forensics website:

Bardamu

2003-10-25 15:28 | User Profile

Ausonius,

Those twelve gage pictures are intense. Aren't those zip guns by classification and therefore contraband?

Im under the impression that a homemade gun has to be modeled after an existing gun in order to be legal. Now that is vague. Can you expand on that?

Faust

2003-10-25 22:50 | User Profile

Bardamu,

Yes, Those twelve gage guns would be NFA weapons, a short barreled shotgun. You could build such gun, but it would have to have a rifled bore under .50 in. in order to not be subject to NFA registration and $200 tax.

"Im under the impression that a homemade gun has to be modeled after an existing gun in order to be legal. Now that is vague. Can you expand on that?"

No. You can build anything you like as long as it not an NFA weapon or banned by the 1994 law for the most part.

More on this subject. [QUOTE] "According to US Federal law, it is legal for a private individual not otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm in the US to build their own firearm. The firearm must be a Title I firearm as outlined in the National Firearms Act of 1934 (among other things, no automatic firearms, no sound suppressors, etc.) and must comply with all other laws including the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994.That still leaves a very broad array of firearms that can be made by citizens. A serial number is not necessary as this firearm is made by a private individual for personal use - it cannot be made with the "intent" to sell it. The BATF recommends that the private builder put a serial number, but it is not required by US Federal law. Only licensed manufacturers (i.e. holder of a Type 07 or Type 10 Federal Firearms License) are required by law to put a serial number on their manufactured firearms. Note that the under US Federal law, the "receiver" is the part that is considered the actual "firearm" - other parts like the trigger group, barrel, bolt, etc. are just pieces of metal.

State law varies in the US, but private gunmaking by citizens is legal in most US states. It is the responsibility of the reader to check for himself. Some states may require a serial number."[/QUOTE]

Take a look at this twelve gage gun.

Faust

2003-10-25 23:45 | User Profile

Ausonius,

Thanks for your reply. I do have two general gunsmithing books, general Machine tool text, some books on firearms, and many other books on tools and related subjects. Yes taking some basic machining courses is a great idea.

Bill Holmes' Home Gun Workshop Vol. V is one the few "homemade gun" books with good plans for building a non-NFA weapon, but the gun may be somewhat overly complex. Bill Holmes' Vol. I, his SMG book, has plans for making a rifled bore with simple tools.

Grizzly.com sells this machine. I don't know how good it is but the price is not bad. And it comes with everything.

[QUOTE]Grizzly Combo Lathe/Mill

Distance between centers: 19.2"

Spindle taper: MT #3

Mill drill spindle taper: MT #3

Reg. $850.00 Ship anywhere within 48 states for $125.00!

Combo Lathe/Mill: [url]http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G4015Z[/url]

Picture: [url]http://www.grizzly.com/graphics/products/pics/g4/g4015z.jpg[/url] [/QUOTE]

Great picture of those south african guns. I remember seeing on the network years ago a Zulu with a very crude gun, that looked 3/4 water pipe on a crudely worked 2x4 stock. The thing put a cloud of white smoke and knocked down several ANC members.

Ausonius

2003-10-25 23:54 | User Profile

Faust,

Excellent post. Although I was under the impression that BATF would issue a serial number to the maker when it was completed (the serial number, however, can also be what the maker wants it to be as well, ATF just approves it). I could be wrong, though. If you have access to chapter and verse, I would be much obliged. Just because I build them does not mean I know everything. Like anything else, the path you choose to take never ends. You learn something every day.

Ausonius

2003-10-26 00:25 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Faust]Ausonius,

Grizzly.com sells this machine. I don't know how good it is but the price is not bad. And it comes with everything.

That's not a bad machine. Grizzly is a decent name and for making most of the stuff you need, I doubt you would need anything more. I would add some 'live' centers instead of 'dead' just because they are so convenient. It is not clear, though, if the headstock is hollow. If it is, you can feed barrels in from the backside, meaning you can cut your thread extension for the receiver and chamber it no problem. If it is not, that complicates things. The distance between centers is only 19.2 inches. Meaning that if your barrel is longer than that, you cannot fit it in the lathe.

I looked over their machines, and this one seems to be able to handle anything you will ever come across:

[url]http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G9729[/url]

Good find though. I forgot about Grizzly. I usually deal with Blue Ridge Machine Tools or MSC (shameless plug for MSC.. they have [I]everything[/I].. I mean everything. I guess I got spoiled).

For all you do-it-yourselfers out there, here are some of the titles on my bookshelves:

Machinery's Handbook, #26 Machinery's Handbook Pocket Companion, #26 Metric Conversions Handbook Technology of Machine Tools, Glencoe Gunsmithing, Roy F. Dunlop Bolt Action Rifles, de Haas Gunsmith Kinks #1, 2, 3, 4, Brownells Checkering & Carving of Gunstocks, Kennedy The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions, Donnelly Understanding Firearms Ballistics, Rinker The Gun Digest Book of Firearms Assembly/Disassembly, #1-6 NRA Firearms Assembly/Disassembly series, #1-5 Exploded Views, Karnes/Traister American National Standards (ANSI/SAAMI), tel: 212-642-4900 Browning Field Service Manual (hard to find, but worth its' weight in solid platinum) Various factory Service manuals, Field manuals and Technical manuals from Winchester, Smith & Wesson, Heckler & Koch, Browning, U.S. Army, U.S. Marine Corps.

In no way have I memorized everything in these books, but I have read them all at one point or another. Knowing where to find information is nearly as good as knowing something by heart. No way will you guys (or gals) get access to my vendor list (hey, I gotta have SOME secrets, ja?). If you really get stuck and need help, PM me and I'll help you out.

Ausonius

Faust

2003-10-26 00:35 | User Profile

Ausonius,

[QUOTE]Excellent post. Although I was under the impression that BATF would issue a serial number to the maker when it was completed (the serial number, however, can also be what the maker wants it to be as well, ATF just approves it). I could be wrong, though. If you have access to chapter and verse, I would be much obliged. Just because I build them does not mean I know everything. Like anything else, the path you choose to take never ends. You learn something every day.[/QUOTE]

A nonlicensee has no need to deal with the ATF for approval of firearm or issue of serial number. It is a good idea to make up a maker's name to use it and give each home firearm a serial number Something like "IFT Arms 50002", but it legal not to do such.

QUOTE Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? [Back]

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from making a semiautomatic assault weapon or assembling a nonsporting semiautomatic rifle or nonsporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a federal or state agency. [18 U. S. C. 922( o), (r), (v), and 923, 27 CFR 178.39, 178.40, 178.41 and 179.105]

[url]http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7[/url]

[url]http://www.atf.gov/[/url][/QUOTE]

Also see James H. Jeffries site for more Firearms law infomation:

James H. Jeffries [url]http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/index.html[/url]

Ausonius

2003-10-26 01:22 | User Profile

Faust,

Thanks for the info. I bookmarked them for a lengthy perusal later. Just goes to show that it's impossible to know everything, especially when it comes to obscure government regulations and arcana.

Thank you again.

Ausonius

This was the fourth homemade handgun that didn't make it onto a previous post. Notice the anal overattention to detail so typical of these types of firearms :lol: :

Ausonius

2003-10-26 01:28 | User Profile

Hey Faust..

I double-dog dare ya to fire that thing. Heh, heh, heh..

Ausonius

Faust

2003-10-26 05:14 | User Profile

Ausonius,

What is it? (Attachment: hm4.bmp)

Yes the headstock is hollow on the Grizzly lathe/mills 3/4'' bore on the 19.2'' center lathe/mill and 1 1/8'' on the c 31'' enter lathe/mill. They even make a 12 x 39'' lathe/mill for $2600 with a 1 1/2'' bore headstock.

I have Blue Ridge Machine Tools Catalog. They have lots of stuff.

Blue Ridge Machine Tools [url]http://www.blueridgemachinery.com/[/url]

I think I have seen the MSC site before. [url]http://www.mscdirect.com/[/url]

MACHINE TOOL ACCESSORIES [url]http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/INSRHI?PMSECT=996[/url]

You might take a look at Lindsay Publications. They have lots of Machining Books and a few Gunsmithing books.

[QUOTE]Lindsay Publications

[url]http://www.lindsaybks.com/[/url]

Index of Popular Books. More in our big catalog [url]http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/index.html[/url] [/QUOTE]

Ausonius

2003-10-26 15:28 | User Profile

Faust,

[QUOTE]What is it? (Attachment: hm4.bmp) [/QUOTE]

From what the notes on the website said, it was/is a .38 Spl revolver. Single action only. From what I can make out, the cylinder is made of iron pipe sections booger-welded together on some sort of central pin. Barrel is of the same iron pipe (maybe natural gas line?). Front sight is just a pile of weld that has been filed down. Notice the giant 1/4 inch hex head bolt holding the frame together just below the cylinder pin. I assume the rest is just simple springs and screws holding everything else together. Clyinder must be rotated by hand, since a complex hand/trigger assembly was beyond the maker. Also, I cannot see any indexing slots for the bolt to hold the cylinder in place (meaning that if they cylinder is misaligned, it could blow off the front half of the "revolver"). How this thing was fired successfully without blowing up, killing the user or harming anyone nearby is anyone's guess. The Mujahadeen in Afganistan made much better weapons back in the 80's with little more than a simple lathe, some hand tools and railroad tracks pulled up for raw materials. Whoever made this had nothing to go by and was likely making it up as he went along.

Since the headstock on the first machine is hollow, it gets my vote for a good first machine for a neophyte to use. Of course, if I had unlimited resources, I'd get a geared head engine lathe and a 7-foot Bridgeport mill with digital X-Y-Z readouts.. but I digress.

That first machine is good to go. 850 bones won't break the bank and will allow anyone to practice making stuff at home. The larger machine I listed won't be too much of a stretch either, and its' more powerful motors and larger capacity is a bit more versitile. 120 v means it can go anywhere, so long as you have one dedicated line to the machine (no blown fuses or breakers). I'd still get a couple of 'live' centers, some really good magnet lights (no flourescent lights.. not good enough), TiN coated endmills (or carbide endmills), a bunch of drills (standard 118 degree is fine.. just make sure to get A-Z, Metric and Standard), 1-2-3 blocks, a screw-jack, a good set of parallels.. can't think of much else that a body would want. Maybe a good set of taps and dies. Cutting fluid, a good supply of red rags, maybe a couple of carbide-tipped cutters for the lathe. Screw checker, thread checker, cheater plate, good set of protective glasses, leather gloves and a decent blue denim apron. Don't forget a machinists square. Dial calipers, too. Dykem blue.

(this list never ends.. it's easy to spend yourself into the poor house when buying stuff like this. The above should allow anyone with a clue and more than 2 brain cells to rub together to make literally anything at home).

One last thing. Kasenite. And a decent Acetaline/O2 rig.. one of the little ones will be fine. It will allow you to heat treat parts that need to be super hard.

Gotta scoot. I'll post more later.

MadScienceType

2003-10-27 16:33 | User Profile

You could do way worse than the 1911A1. It gets my vote for winter carry (too big to conceal in summer with light clothing), that, or a H&K USP Compact. I approve of that choice 100%. There are a couple of advantages that a revolver has over a 1911A1 (or any semi-auto), but bringing them runs the risk of starting a war (and because I'm crunched for time), they can wait till another day.

Ausonius,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Sorry for the late response, but I've been swamped this whole weekend. Agreed about the single-stack 1911. Unfortunately, it's always summer here in TX. I have rigged up a comfortable and pretty effective summer carry even with the 1911. I have a gunbelt from Bandera Gunleather (you should check 'em out, he'll make you a belt that'll fit anything as long as you tell him what piece you want it fitted for [url]http://www.banderagunleather.prodigybiz.com/TheBeltster.html[/url]) and the pic in the website is pretty much the way I carry. With a long, loose-fitting T-shirt, you're pretty well covered, though you have to essentially curtsy, not bend, to pick up something off the ground. Of course you need to pick your restaurant seat carefully, too, but I've never been made (that I know of) though I'm sure cops and ex-cons are better than your average citizen at spotting. Not the fastest access, but I practce the "Hackathorn Rip" I guess it's called and I can get it into play pretty quick, and the melt-job Kimber does seems to help. The H&K is a sweet gun. I have one of the Compacts in .45 and unlike the 1911, it will eat anything I feed it, so I have to stick with round-ogive bullets for the 1911 (Federal makes some good ones!) but it's just a little too thick with the double-stack mag for comfort.

I know a few advantages of revolvers over autos, like no safety to mess with and if you get a dud round, just pull the trigger again, no tap-rack-bang drill necessary and no jams to clear. I don't get into wars over stuff like that. I figure if it works for someone, I'm not gonna second-guess them.

You're correct about the M27. I had one for awhile. Built like a bank vault. I rebarreled it with a 4" tube. Nice rig, and an excellent chassis for experimentation, though remember that you can blow anything up if you try hard enough, even a .22.

Yeah. Chalk that one up to youth and stupidity. Fortunately, I wasn't trying too hard!

(one on an Anaconda in .45 Colt and the other on a S&W 686-Plus.. no, neither one are for sale, so don't bother asking)

Are you sure the 686 isn't for sale? ;)

Thanks for the info on the .41 Mags. I'll do a little more hunting around before I make my purchase. I especially like the idea of low-profile tritiums on an M57 as a carry gun for snag-free draws. Good point about the 4" barrel, too. Oh yeah, and those grips are absolutely gorgeous.

As for machine tools, y'all might want to check out the Smithy line of machines. They're more expensive than a 3-in-1 from another maker, but they are a lot more versatile.

[url]www.smithy.com[/url]

The Granite 1324 is probably the one I'll get when I scrape up the cash. It's real nice and I know a guy that has one. You can learn on it, but it's not so chintzy that a pro would find it too awful. The center-to-center distance is pretty good at 24" and the headstock is hollow, so unless you're doing a .50BMG with a 36" barrel, you're good to go (even then, I guess you could get the 1340). It has powerfeed, automatic metric and SAE threading and takes standard tooling. CNC upgradable if you need it. The whole nine yards.

One last thing. Kasenite.

P.S. Stupid question. What's Kasenite? Might I know it under another name? Is it for case-hardening or something?

Ausonius

2003-10-27 21:24 | User Profile

MadScienceType,

[QUOTE]Stupid question. What's Kasenite? Might I know it under another name? Is it for case-hardening or something?[/QUOTE]

No such thing as a stupid question. Correction: the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.

Kasenite (Kay-sen-ite) is exactly what you think it is. I'm sorry if I did not go into enough detail. It works like this:

Heat up part either in kiln or with acetyline/O2 rig until proper temperature is achieved (anywhere between 600 to 1600 degrees F, depending on what material it is, what you want it to do and what kind of properties you want it to have.
Hold part with pliers/tongs/anything but your hand and
Stick part in can of Kasenite and go get lunch or do something else.
When part has cooled to the point where you can pick it up with a gloved hand and not have the glove start to smoke, stick part in bead/sand blaster and knock off all the fused carbon.
If you've done your job right, the part should be however hard you want it to be and is ready for assembly into whatever you need it for. Be advised though, the outside will be glass-hard. A file will not touch it. So be double damn sure that the demensions on your part are [I]exactly[/I] right, because you're sure as hell not going to be able to change it once it is hardened.

There is a minor variation on this theme, that is the acetyline/O2 rig/quench in oil trick/soak in lead. I won't go into martensite and pearlite (unless you really want me to), but the fast version is:

Heat to cherry red quench in oil wipe off bead blast soak part in melted lead in lead smelter for 15-30 minutes @ 650 degrees F (or thereabouts)

This draws the temper out and makes the outside rock hard, yet the inside is flexible. Good for making flat springs (a common enough thing in firearms). Make sure that the steel is polished absolutely perfectly, and there be no nicks or gouges in it [I]before[/I] you heat treat it. This creates a stress point in the steel and it [I]will[/I] snap, most likely at the time you need it most.

[QUOTE]Are you sure the 686 isn't for sale? ;) [/QUOTE]

Yup. I bought it for my wife. It belongs to her. You'll have to try and leverage [I]her[/I] to get hold of it. Good luck. :lol:

[QUOTE]The Granite 1324 is probably the one I'll get when I scrape up the cash.[/QUOTE]

Not bad. I like it. For the person that only has room for one or two machines, it'll do nicely. I'd add a drill press and a couple other odds and ends, like a parts washer or grinder, but that one machine will solve most of your problems. Surface grinder would be nice, but I don't have 7 thousand dollars. I wish.

Ausonius

Sorry this is so short, but I have to scoot. Will write more later.

Faust

2003-10-27 21:34 | User Profile

MadScienceType,

What's Kasenite? I did a search; Yes, Kasenite is a case hardening compound. I think I had known that.

Track of the Wolf sells the stuff [QUOTE]Kasenit Case Hardening Compound, 1 pound can

Kasenit Case Hardening Compound

This unique product requires only two minutes at high temperature to achieve a good wearing surface.

The manufacturer recommends Kasenit for case hardening low carbon steels. We use it to carburize critical surfaces that must retain surface hardness, such as wax cast steel lock parts, especially frizzens, tumblers, sears, flys, screw slots, chisels, screwdriver blade ends, engraving points, and other tools.

Kasenit compound works quickly, hardening to a uniform depth. The secret is a unique Ã¢â¬ÅactivatorÃ¢â¬Â that speeds the process. Both carbon and nitrogen are added to the surface, allowing it to be quenched to a high hardness, while retaining a soft tough core. Kasenit will protect highly finished surfaces from decarburization while hardening. After quenching, the surface is clean and hard. Reliable, inexpensive, nonpoisonous, nonexplosive, nonflammable.

Small steel parts may be hardened using a Propane torch. Medium size parts require MAPP gas. Larger parts require Acetylene. Instructions are printed on the label.

Our instructions for carburizing a frizzen will be included, on request.

KASENIT Kasenit Case Hardening Compound, 1 pound can . . . $12.95

[url]http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partDetail.aspx?catID=15&subID=88&styleID=812&partNum=Kasenit&partOff=0[/url]

[url]http://www.trackofthewolf.com/[/url] [/QUOTE]

Yes those Smithy machine look pretty good. The Smithy Midas 1220 is only $995. And has an "MT4 spindle with bore-through accepts 1" standard bar stock."

MadScienceType

2003-10-27 22:52 | User Profile

Thanks Ausonius.

Yeah, I'm actually interested in various metal-hardening methods. I like the lead-smelter idea. I suppose that step is the annealing process. As an aside, one of the things I like about guns & gunsmithing is the carry-over into that other great masculine pastime, cars. A lot of the techniques and tools are the same in both endeavors, but on a smaller scale with guns. I know bead-blasting (aka shotpeening, right?) and I've used in on sets of factory rods after polishing and grinding all the stress-risers off the beams, since I didn't have a lot of cash to invest in a set of pretty, though expensive, H-beam rods. Didn't mess with the factory heat-treat, though! I do need to get an acetylene rig, as it's hard to temper stuff with an arc welder.

Yup. I bought it for my wife. It belongs to her. You'll have to try and leverage her to get hold of it. Good luck.

So, uh, does she like flowers and chocolate or what? ;)

Faust,

Good info on the Kasenite, thanks. I like the 1324 simply because it has some of the bells and whistles the Midas line doesn't. I think it would be harder to "outgrow" the 1324 and it has some time-saving stuff like automatic threading and such.

Ausonius

2003-10-28 01:49 | User Profile

[QUOTE]I suppose that step is the annealing process. [/QUOTE]

No.

Annealing is the normalizing of a piece of case-hardened metal. You bring up the temperature in a kiln to the point where the steel is white hot... it is in flux between martensite and pearlite. Hot enough almost to melt. You have to do this in stages or you'll burn the steel. After it has sat there for a couple of hours, then you stage it back down again. Once it has cooled to room temperature, I have heard it referred to as 'peanut butter' steel. Very soft and malleable. If you have a case-hardened receiver that has been abused, you can normalize it like I illustrated above, then perform all the work you want, then case harden it again, though I would probably use a kiln and a bone/charcoal mix to get it back up to where in needs to be. This can only be done a limited amount of times before the steel takes a 'set' and is largely useless as a firearm. The first time when it was made, and one more to repair any damage. That's pretty much it. Twice. Then it's scrap.

You can use a bead-blaster to get whatever finish you want, pretty much. Something aggressive to give a matte finish, or a ultra-fine bead (almost like talc) to get a satin. I use it to clean steel more than anything, but it does come in handy to blast off the topstrap of a pistol before you blue it. And parkerizing... you absolutely HAVE to have one for parkerizing. The finish is literally 'grown' on the steel, and the rougher the steel, the better the finish will endure. By the way, anyone can parkerize. It's so easy, you can do it on your stove. I'm not kidding. I've done touchup work on our stove before on small parts. Firearms of military usefulness will need to be parkerized. Learn how.

There's other tricks I'll clue you in on later..

By the way, MSC has Kasenit on sale now, a case of 12, 1lb cans for $10.79. I got my flyer in the mail today.

Ausonius

Faust

2003-11-02 05:51 | User Profile

Ausonius,

A new book from Lindsay Publications: Forge and Heat Treat Oven

[QUOTE]Forge and Heat Treat Oven

by Bill Goodman & Bob Holmes published by Gingery Publishing

Dave Gingery writes in the foreward-

"When I first saw the Goodman/Holmes forge I was impressed with its appearance. When it was fired and I saw it perform I was persuaded that it was a practical project for a how-to manual and I urged Bill and Bob to go for it. Fortunately notes and drawings had been kept so this book is their response.

If you are working with metal you will eventually want to raise it to high temperatures to change its state, its shape or its degree of hardness. This piece of equipment will enable you to do it.

There are several unique features of this amazing piece of shop equipment. The most outstanding feature is the high output atmospheric burner. The cleverness of arranging twin flames that impinge on each other results in a single concentrated flame that raises temperature rapidly. But radial holes that admit the extra primary air, thus eliminating the need for a blower, are the master stroke..."

Unka Dave is right. This is a great forge/oven. Sure, with luck I can heat chunks of iron hot enough in my charcoal barbeque grill to hammer them into shape on an anvil. But when it comes to wanting to precisely heat treat a tap or other tool, this is the device you and I need.

This is the usual Gingery quality: drawings, parts lists, how-to, even details on the pyrometer. This is a gas fired unit, so you can use LP gas or propane, or maybe the methane seeping out of your septic tank. Well... maybe not.

Excellent project. Heat treating steel is an essential part of metal working. This will give you the precise control you need. Order a copy. 5-1/2 x 8-1/2 softcover 72 pages

No. 1558 ... $15.95

[url]http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/ffurn/index.html[/url]

Lindsay Publications [url]http://www.lindsaybks.com/[/url][/QUOTE]

Ausonius

2003-11-14 00:37 | User Profile

Hello OD,

For those of you who, like myself, are precision rifle nuts, here is a wonderful site that I highly reccomend. I have bought several tools from them and will vouch for their outstanding quality and excellent service. For the thinking rifleman:

[url]www.sinclairintl.com[/url]

Good luck.

Ausonius

Faust

2003-11-14 03:30 | User Profile

More Stuff:

[QUOTE] Making Rifle Barrels

articles from Machinery Magazine reprinted by Lindsay Publications Inc

More than 90 different operations went into manufacturing barrels for the British Lee-Enfield rifle during WWI. The first third of this booklet shows in detail how the Brits did it-- the machines, techniques, and tricks necessary to drill a long, deep, perfectly straight hole into very hard steel, straighten the tube if necessary and then cut rifling grooves. It's heavily illustrated with photos (not great quality unfortunately), and drawings revealing the drills, reamers, laps, relieving cutters, thread millers and the multitude of other tools used.

Then it's "Drilling, Reaming and Straightening Rifle Barrels" as it was done in another factory. Again, it's wall-to-wall illustrations of barrel drilling machines, jigs for sharpening the special drill bit, Pratt & Whitney reaming machines, straightening techniques, and so on, all the way to polishing the barrel. You even get formulas for solutions to brown the barrels.

Finally you get two short illustrated articles, "Machining Rifling Bars on the Bench Lathe", and "Drilling a Long Blind Hole".

Obviously, during WWI there were many articles on manufacturing ordnance, but almost all of them were concerned with speeding up production. These four articles are the best for us since they cover how-to.

Machining a rifle barrel is quite an achievement. Here's how it was done almost a century ago on relatively simple equipment. Get a copy! 5-1/2 x 8-1/2 booklet 63 pages 75 illustrations

No. 22806 ... $8.95

[url]http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks6/rifle/index.html[/url]

Lindsay Publications [url]http://www.lindsaybks.com/[/url][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]BILL WEBB'S RIFLE BARREL MAKING MACHINE

If you have TMBR#3, at pages 167-8 you may have noticed an item headed "Possibilities with a Twist," that tells a little about a shop-made rifling machine built by Bill Webb, of Kansas City, MO. Bill is a retired mechanical engineer, and a master benchrest riflesmith of some 40+ years experience. His machine will drill, ream and rifle a barrel, starting from the solid bar.

Many people expressed interest in having details of this machine, so I visited Bill in May of 1995 and made a video about his rifling machine.

Rifling Machine [url]http://lautard.com/smallwebb.jpg[/url]

Click here to see a larger version of the above photo [url]http://lautard.com/rmvpic.htm[/url]

NOTE: Bill's machine is not suitable for commercial barrel making, but it is capable of making match grade benchrest barrels for your own use and for friends. Bill can drill, ream and rifle a premium grade benchrest barrel in about 4 hours, on his machine.

This 3 hour video is supplied on two VHS tapes, together with a 36-page written Supplement. The video covers the following:

* a close look at the rifling machine, how each part works, and how it relates to the rest of the machine.

* suggested improvements to incorporate in your machine - which means you won't have to build a prototype, see what's wrong with it, and then spend more time rebuilding it the way it should be.

* info on what's critical and what's not in terms of alignment and accuracy throughout the machine. Being fore-armed with this knowledge will save you a lot of time that you might otherwise expend on needless work for accuracy where it is not required.

* specific numbers for speeds, feeds, machine and cutter dimensions, oil pressures, etc. are given, both on the video and in the written Supplement.

* addresses of commercial suppliers of deep hole drills and reamers, and steel tube for the reamer oiling/pull tubes are given in the video and the Supplement.

You will watch as a barrel is made from start to finish on Bill's machine. Bill tells you exactly what is happening at every stage, and you will see it all: setting up, drilling, reaming and rifling - close up. You can almost smell the cutting oil! Note: When Bill later installed and tested the 6mm barrel you see made on this video, its first four 5-shot groups measured 0.213", 0.274", 0.300", and 0.165" at 100 yards. Bill provides excellent explanations, via blackboard diagrams, of the deep hole drill and the rifling head/rifling cutter - their geometry, how they are constructed, how they work, and how to use them. You will also see them right up close as they are turned this way and that, just inches from the camera lens. The rifling cutter is "worked" back and forth - it's almost like you were holding it in your own hands.

At one point you will see th rifling cutter moved back and forth in the rifling head, and you can see the film of oiil around the cutter flexing as the cutter is moved!

These details are also shown and expanded upon in the written Supplement, as are details of simple tools you can make (and will see in the video) for measuring bore and groove dimensions of barrels you are making.

Bill's machine was built with a lathe, an old horizontal mill, a drill press, and hand tools, mainly from parts and material obtained as surplus or from the scrap box -- nothing exotic is required.

(Just to make sure you understand the foregoing: Bill HAD ONLY the machines and tools named above when he built his rifling machine. His rifling machine is not a conglomeration OF those items.)

The end result is a stand-alone machine which has a shop footprint about 2' x 8'. Two men could carry it and the simple home-made wooden bench on which it sits a short distance.

Also in this video:

(1) You'll see a Sheffield air gage demonstrated, and its use explained.

(2) Bill's theory on why good barrels suddenly stop shooting good groups.

(3) one job you'll need to do in making the pull tube that draws the reamer through the barrel, and delivers cutting oil to the reamer at the same time, is to turn down a 1/4" diameter x 30" long piece of steel tubing to say 0.236" diameter. Fully dimensioned drawings and notes are provided in the written Supplement for Bill's combined steady and toolholder, which makes this job easy.

This video provides sufficient information to enable any interested and careful basement machinist to build a machine capable of turning out match grade rifle barrels.

What's more, the video will save you countless hours you might otherwise spend taking the wrong turns Bill did (which cost him about 2 years of wasted time). As Bill points out in the video, there is much published mis-information on barrel making. For example, more than one book says to use negative rake rifling cutters. Negative rake rifling cutters are the last thing you would want to use in trying to rifle a barrel made from modern high tensile steel! This video will steer you straight.

And (just like in real movies) we have a "short"!.... In the last 15 minutes of the video you will meet retired master tool and die maker Connie Grims, and see several very fine (and handsomely engraved) old style single shot rifles which he has built, entirely from scratch - actions, barrels, triggers, stocks, sights, and in some cases, even the scope mounts. These rifles will have you on the edge of your seat for sure.

A question we are often asked by customers interested in this video, is: How long will it take // How much would it cost to put a rifling machine together?

Bill Webb built his machine in 6 weeks, and at the time, his shop was not lavishly equipped. He had a 9" South Bend Lathe, an antique horizontal mill, a drill press, and hand tools.

As for cost, it depends on how much you can scrounge. Probably the most expensive single item required, and which most people will have to buy new, are a set of pillow blocks. Bill used Sealmasters, (a real "Cadillac" grade bearing!) because he had them on hand. However, Browning or equal standard duty single row pillow block bearings will do fine. You'll probably find that you can get suitable bearings for about $100 if bought new.

You may be able to find most of the rest of the material required in your scrap box, or on scrap patrol in your town. You will need a piece of 8" channel iron, a piece of steel plate about 10 " x 18 " x 5/8", plus 2 pieces of 1-1/4" ground shafting, 54" long, plus 4 bushings to fit same, and a 24" length of 2-1/2" OD x 1-1/2" ID D.O.M. (drawn over manrdrel) tubing.

The machine requires 3 motors:- one for the spindle, one for the oil pump, and a reversible, variable speed gear motor to drive the leadscrew, which powers the carriage when drilling and reaming. (Cutting the actual rifling is done under hand power. It is not hard work.)

3 hours, VHS format

US Customers: US$89.95 ppd; add $5.00 for airmail.

Canadian Customers: C$129.95 ppd (includes GST). Add $15.00 for Xpresspost. BC Residents add $8.50 PST.

Customers outside US or Canada: C$161.0 for VHS version; $190.00 for PAL version - both prices include airmail postage. Bill Webb/Guy Lautard - Rifle barrel machine video

[url]http://lautard.com/rmv.htm[/url] [/QUOTE]

Faust

2003-12-04 02:07 | User Profile

Ausonius,

I have seen a few talk up the Remington Model 7400 as a cheap rifle for home defense and paramilitary use. Any thoughts on this idea.

Remington Model 7400 autoloading rifle [url]http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/7400wd.htm[/url]

Faust

2003-12-29 03:33 | User Profile

Ausonius,

Any thoughts or ideas on Home Parkerizing?

"Parkerizing, the finish is literally 'grown' on the steel, and the rougher the steel, the better the finish will endure. By the way, anyone can parkerize. It's so easy, you can do it on your stove. I'm not kidding. I've done touchup work on our stove before on small parts. Firearms of military usefulness will need to be parkerized. Learn how.

There's other tricks I'll clue you in on later.."

MadScienceType

2003-12-30 13:56 | User Profile

I wish Ausonius was still here. I wanted to thank him for his advice on this thread, which I put to good use over the holidays.

I wandered into the very small local gun shop, and what did I discover?

A blued model 57 (.41 Mag baby!) from the late '70s, at least it's pinned and recessed and it has a 6" tube. N-frame of course, with a square butt. Very good shape, with about 90+% of the bluing remaining, and the only place it's worn off is on the barrel (the frame is 100%). The bbl/cyl gap is a consistent and tight 0.002" all the way around and the action is sweet, with a single-action trigger like breaking glass. I used the Christmas money to pay the $400 cash price and picked up some twice-used reloading dies for less than $20 while I was in there.

Pretty nice grips (better than stock) but I think I'll visit the grip site he mentioned and get some made, since the ones on the gun are very slightly oversize for my mitts. Picked up a box of factory ammo while I wait for some more new brass and man, that thing shoots flat and hits like a hammer. Still getting used to the DA, but I think there's another wheelgun fan in the making.

Hey Faust,

Check out Brownell's for home parkerizing stuff [url]www.brownells.com[/url]. They've got anything you'd need for doing that, from complete (and expensive) kits to just the basic supplies.