← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Franco
Thread ID: 10003 | Posts: 33 | Started: 2003-09-24
2003-09-24 01:59 | User Profile
Those darn Catholics are at it again.... :smoke:
This important -- and telling -- quote about 'ambulance-chasing' lawyers was sent out about a month ago, but only to a few people:
"'The field of personal injury really expanded in the forties and fifties,' said Greenberg. 'A dozen or so lawyers developed this area of law, and most of them were Jewish.'" [quoting a Jewish lawyer]; from the book "Jews and Money: The Myths and the Reality," by Jewish author Gerald Krefetz; from Ticknor and Fields, New Haven/New York, 1982, page 193, hardcover.
2003-09-24 02:07 | User Profile
Franco, you must have some beef with the Catholic Church. Can you lay off the Catholic jokes? :furious:
2003-09-24 05:10 | User Profile
Heh, heh -- I just like giving all Christians a hard time, because they put Jesus before their race; not a good plan -- trust me, a former Christian. Race comes first. :punk:
If you wanna help the Catholics/Protestants destroy Western Civ. by their embracing of Marxism [read: Jewish ideas], be my guest... :ohmy: Of course I do not suggest that you embrace such ideas, but your kin in the churches do...
2003-09-24 14:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Heh, heh -- I just like giving all Christians a hard time, because they put Jesus before their race; not a good plan -- trust me, a former Christian. Race comes first. :punk:
No God comes first. But yet the creation and seperation of the races was part of God's divine plans for humanity. Paul Grubach wrote an interesting paper saying that white nationalism and christianity are compatible. [url]http://www.davidduke.com/library/race/christianity_nationalism.html[/url]
If you wanna help the Catholics/Protestants destroy Western Civ. by their embracing of Marxism [read: Jewish ideas], be my guest... :ohmy: Of course I do not suggest that you embrace such ideas, but your kin in the churches do...[/QUOTE]
The Western churches has been infiltrated by the marxists. Although the Eastern Churches(to which I belong) don't kiss the Jew's ass. Read this Orthodox christian essay to see what I'm talking about [url]http://www.stvladimirs.ca/library/bnei-noach.html[/url]
As it states
In reality, the Talmudic redemption appears [B]to be a tyranny by the Jewish race[/B] and is not much different than that Nazism. Indeed the evil Hitler was simply envious of the Jews and wanted their style of redemption for the Germans!
I'm sure that last sentence is going to stir up some sh*t.
Now let's say that the Talmudic Jews are right and salvation does mean Jewish hegemony and animal sacrifice. Is such a god worthy of our worship? I think not. Personally I would prefer to have my soul extinguished (the ultimate Jewish hell - all others are temporary) rather than serve such a tyranical god. God can be a tyrant in Judaism because he authors good and evil alike.
So we Eastern Christians don't kiss the chosens' ass!
In fact the Eastern Churches even warn(although does not exactly bans) against multi-racial marriages, since most of these marriages are based on ones lust for a person of another race. Plus, due to cultural differences between the two will create potential marital conflicts. Therefore, the Eastern Churches will often suggest and prefers if its parish marry within their own ethnic/cultural grouping.
2003-09-24 14:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Heh, heh -- I just like giving all Christians a hard time, because they put Jesus before their race; not a good plan -- trust me, a former Christian. Race comes first. :punk: [/QUOTE]
Without Christianity to hold whites together, whites are lost. It's no coincidence that this alien invasion and multicultural oppression coinsides with the marginalization of Christianity in this country.
Those self-loathing white Christians are nothing more than nominal Christians and their churches nothing more than club meetings.
2003-09-24 15:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Happy Hacker]Without Christianity to hold whites together, whites are lost. It's no coincidence that this alien invasion and multicultural oppression coinsides with the marginalization of Christianity in this country. [/QUOTE]
The Marxist Antino Gramsci himself said that Western civilization was immune to a communist takeover because of 2000 years of Christianity. Therefore the de-Christianization of the West was necessary for a communist takeover. Recent events have proven him right.
2003-09-24 16:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Heh, heh -- I just like giving all Christians a hard time, because they put Jesus before their race; not a good plan -- trust me, a former Christian. Race comes first. :punk:
If you wanna help the Catholics/Protestants destroy Western Civ. by their embracing of Marxism [read: Jewish ideas], be my guest... :ohmy: Of course I do not suggest that you embrace such ideas, but your kin in the churches do...[/QUOTE]
I see, Franco. And no other secular/atheist white organization is also guilty of this trend??
No, you pick out the institutions of Christianity because of issues you have with Christianity. Race is just the excuse. But I have faith you'll come around in time. :)
2003-09-24 19:10 | User Profile
Tex wrote:
No, you pick out the institutions of Christianity because of issues you have with Christianity.
Christianity left me up the creek without a paddle -- or a clue. "Everybody was made equal in the eyes of God"? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! Did ol' Karl M. pen that, or was it one of the Frankfurt School boys? Or maybe even Lenin?
Too bad I could not see the truth until later in life.
2003-09-24 19:30 | User Profile
The best discussion on the issue of Christianity and the White race can be found on the American Renaissance web site.
[url]http://www.amren.com/xtian.htm[/url]
I would especially recommend the last essay by Edwin Clark (there are four essays in all). I don't know if I have anything add on this topic. Eventually, we must all come to our own conclusions...I have come to mine...
[url]http://www.amren.com/clark.htm[/url]
Perun,
I look forward to your commentary on Clark's essay.
2003-09-24 21:59 | User Profile
Quoting Clark's essay:
Mr. Craig writes that Christianity "created the very culture that men of the West claim to defend." To racialists, this is just not so. The race--the white gene pool--created the culture
Well, that is exactly right -- White genes created the culture in which Christianity spread, and which it sprang from.
Race trumps ALL OTHER FACTORS.
The only correct way of thinking: Whites first, Jesus second, your dog third, your guns fourth, your wife and vodka fifth :jester:
2003-09-24 22:27 | User Profile
Perun,
I have always believed that the Eastern Churches were more traditional religiously and culturally than their Western counterparts. I've read some articles about the Byzantine Rite. It's inevitable that the Roman Catholic church would discard its Eurocentric foundation, especially in America, and produce the quintessential "social justice" types. I know this belongs in the Christianity section but I needed to reply to this.
2003-09-25 03:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]The best discussion on the issue of Christianity and the White race can be found on the American Renaissance web site.
[url]http://www.amren.com/xtian.htm[/url]
I would especially recommend the last essay by Edwin Clark (there are four essays in all). I don't know if I have anything add on this topic. Eventually, we must all come to our own conclusions...I have come to mine...
[url]http://www.amren.com/clark.htm[/url]
Perun,
I look forward to your commentary on Clark's essay.[/QUOTE]
Yes I will comment on Clark's essay. Like the other ones you have posted here, it doesn't impress me and is full of holes. And plus it goes through the typical "people who believe in Christianity are all lunatics and idiots" type knee-jerking. You must real desperate to try to reconvert me back to atheism Friederich ;)
But I like to actually make a point about something. It seems that most people here who oppose Christianity seem to oppose it because all in all its a non-European religion in origin. Now Wintermute is one of the few(if the only one) who really tries to question the truth of Christianity. But what I mostly get is "we should return to paganism(or whatever) because its more indengious" and such. Which further proves what that one article I posted stated
[url]http://www.stvladimirs.ca/library/bnei-noach.html[/url]
In reality, the Talmudic redemption appears to be a tyranny by the Jewish race and is not much different than that Nazism. Indeed the evil Hitler was simply envious of the Jews and wanted their style of redemption for the Germans!
Indeed! It seems that most critics of Christianity oppose it based on thinking that is not that different than from the Jews. Rather than oppose Christianity based on theology, most pagans oppose it based on its non-European origins. In other words, Christianity isn't kosher enough for the pagans and other anti-Christians. So really what many anti-Christian racialists want really is a more Europeanized version of Talmudic Judaism for the white race. We should therefore become what we hate!
Now Franco has this view that Christianity is no different than Marxism. If Franco bothered to study traditional christianity he'd find that isn't so. In fact did you read that one article I posted Franco? It practically names the Jew. All I can say is bad puppy dog!
And as Happy Hacker said, once Christianity began to die in the West thats when the multi-culturalists started to take over. And as I said before, Gramsci said that the de-Christianization of the West was the very key to destroying the West. Once Christianity died, the West would fall like a ton of bricks to Marxism! Funny how the Marxists realized Christianity's importance to the West.
I'm not feeling all too good right now, so I'll comment further on this.
2003-09-25 03:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Robbie]Perun,
I have always believed that the Eastern Churches were more traditional religiously and culturally than their Western counterparts. I've read some articles about the Byzantine Rite. It's inevitable that the Roman Catholic church would discard its Eurocentric foundation, especially in America, and produce the quintessential "social justice" types. I know this belongs in the Christianity section but I needed to reply to this.[/QUOTE]
Yes the Eastern Christian churches are more traditional than the Western churches. I don't know what you mean by the Roman rite losing its Euro-centric foundations. In fact the Roman Rite is practically one of the few institutions left in the west that still defends Western civilization.
If you want the most euro-centric station on American tv, watch the Catholic EWTN. You hardly see any non-whites, and even when you do its fairly tolerable. For example you'll see Arabs talking about the Catholic rites in the Middle East, or Blacks talking about Catholicism in Africa and or among African Americans(and they don't speak ebonic but real english); but 90% of the time you'll see whites. All the music programming is of western classical music(with a religious content of course); absolutely no rap at all. In fact one of their programs that deals with how the Church relates to modern culture often criticises rap/rock/pop music in general. Often you'll see programming where they defend the European heritage. So yes Catholic radio/tv programming is probally the most pro-West/white programming thats around.
2003-09-25 04:01 | User Profile
Have you really read those short essays, Perun? (or at the very least Clark's?)
What "holes" are talking about. Just saying that there are "holes" without addressing, or pointing them out, is diasppointing; I want to hear your response to those essays, if you care to provide one, that is.
Nowhere does Clark say that believers are lunatics and idiots. You have him confused with the Free Inquiry Magazine, I think. What are you refering to exactly? Can you provide a quote?
Again, I'm not trying to "reconvert" you to anything. I'm engaging you in a dialogue, that's as far as my ambitions go.
And the next time that you'll quote that wack "eeeeeevil Hitler" passage (thanks for posting it for the billionth time!), I'll blow my brains from sheer boredom. :yawn:
May I suggest a book (if you would like to have some theological arguments)?
The Christians as the Romans saw Them, by Robert L. Wilken.
You'll read some fine theological arguments against Christianity coming from Greeco-Roman intellectuals. Actually, when Christianity took over the crumbling Roman Empire, the magnanimous Christian victors started in earnest to persecute Pagans who refused to toe the new party-line. One of their first actions was to burn, destroy the philosophical and theological attacks, or arguments, made by the Greco-Roman intelligentsia against the Christian superstition (as they called it). Of course, what has remained (the little that has remained) comes from Christian apologetics; Christian authors would quote their Greco-Roman enemies in order to refute their arguments. Hence, we only have a vague and disjointed and incomplete picture of their (often mocking and hilarious) debunking of Christian claims. Otherwise we would have nothing.
What's the moral of this story?
DON'T QUOTE YOUR ENEMIES!!!
[QUOTE=perun1201]Yes I will comment on Clark's essay. Like the other ones you have posted here, it doesn't impress me and is full of holes. And plus it goes through the typical "people who believe in Christianity are all lunatics and idiots" type knee-jerking. You must real desperate to try to reconvert me back to atheism Friederich ;)
But I like to actually make a point about something. It seems that most people here who oppose Christianity seem to oppose it because all in all its a non-European religion in origin. Now Wintermute is one of the few(if the only one) who really tries to question the truth of Christianity. But what I mostly get is "we should return to paganism(or whatever) because its more indengious" and such. Which further proves what that one article I posted stated
Indeed! It seems that most critics of Christianity oppose it based on thinking that is not that different than from the Jews. Rather than oppose Christianity based on theology, most pagans oppose it based on its non-European origins. In other words, Christianity isn't kosher enough for the pagans and other anti-Christians. So really what many anti-Christian racialists want really is a more Europeanized version of Talmudic Judaism for the white race. We should therefore become what we hate!
Now Franco has this view that Christianity is no different than Marxism. If Franco bothered to study traditional christianity he'd find that isn't so. In fact did you read that one article I posted Franco? It practically names the Jew. All I can say is bad puppy dog!
And as Happy Hacker said, once Christianity began to die in the West thats when the multi-culturalists started to take over. And as I said before, Gramsci said that the de-Christianization of the West was the very key to destroying the West. Once Christianity died, the West would fall like a ton of bricks to Marxism! Funny how the Marxists realized Christianity's importance to the West.
I'm not feeling all too good right now, so I'll comment further on this.[/QUOTE]
2003-09-25 04:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]Have you really read those short essays, Perun? (or at the very least Clark's?)
Yes I have read them.
Nowhere does Clark say that believers are lunatics and idiots. You have him confused with the Free Inquiry Magazine, I think. What are you refering to exactly? Can you provide a quote?
How about this one:
The only people in the last century who have been serious Christians have been either ignoramuses (i.e., people who because of stupidity and ignorance or because of willful blindness have closed their minds to the implications of science) or intellectuals (Kierkegaard, Dostoevski, T.S. Eliot, C.S. Lewis, etc.), who are able to come up with extremely sophisticated defenses of it that most people can't understand and which are usually intensely personal.
So yes I have read this essay. Funny how atheists are never condemned for their beliefs based often on a lack of knowledge on religious teachings, or trival things like being kicked by a priest like Verdi.
What "holes" are talking about. Just saying that there are "holes" without addressing, or pointing them out, is diasppointing; I want to hear your response to those essays, if you care to provide one, that is.
Well first off I'm not responsible to you ok. I'm sincerly not feeling all too well right now(in fact for the past few weeks I haven't been in good health) and I have also been very much busy lately with my studies and work. And much of what has been addressed in our debates takes quite a considerable amount of time and energy to address, things that I don't seem to have lately.
Again, I'm not trying to "reconvert" you to anything. I'm engaging you in a dialogue, that's as far as my ambitions go.
Clearly you didn't see that I was joking. Gee and you say I don't have a sense of humor.
And the next time that you'll quote that wack "eeeeeevil Hitler" passage (thanks for posting it for the billionth time!), I'll blow my brains out from sheer boredom. :yawn:[/QUOTE]
I didn't see you complaining when Wintermute kept repeating that "foreskin" quote again and again and again and again. Even Tex had to get on Wintermute's case for that.
Whether or not you decide to commit suicide is your own decision, so don't hold me responsible for your actions.(note: I'm fully aware of the sarcasm in that quote so I'm just responding with my own sarcastic remark).
2003-09-25 04:35 | User Profile
Perun,
I've edited my previous post. In case you don't see it :clap: : I'm recommending a book! :thumbsup:
2003-09-25 04:40 | User Profile
You'll read some fine theological arguments against Christianity coming from Greeco-Roman intellectuals. Actually, when Christianity took over the crumbling Roman Empire, the magnanimous Christian victors started in earnest to persecute Pagans who refused to toe the new party-line. One of their first actions was to burn, destroy the philosophical and theological attacks, or arguments, made by the Greco-Roman intelligentsia against the Christian superstition (as they called it). Of course, what has remained (the little that has remained) comes from Christian apologetics; Christian authors would quote their Greco-Roman enemies in order to refute their arguments. Hence, we only have a vague and disjointed and incomplete picture of their (often mocking and hilarious) debunking of Christian claims. Otherwise we would have nothing.
I will try to find this book of yours. However you claim that Christianity came to power while Rome was already crumbling. As St. Augustine stated that Rome faced disaster and corruption before Christ was even born. The Celts sacked Rome, Rome nearly collasped when Hannibal invaded. Rome's Republic fell victim to ambitious generals like Sulla and eventually by Caesar. Then of course several Roman emperors were assasinated by the very men who were supposed to protect him(the Praetorian Guard). I believe around 193AD(don't quote me on this) the Praetorian Guard even conducted an auction bid for the title of emperor. Clearly Rome's fall was baked in the cake before Christ was born and before Christianity became the major religion of the empire. Even Tacitus condemned Roman immorality as opposed to the more virturous Germanic tribes.
2003-10-02 16:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Christianity left me up the creek without a paddle -- or a clue. "Everybody was made equal in the eyes of God"? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! Did ol' Karl M. pen that, or was it one of the Frankfurt School boys? Or maybe even Lenin?
Too bad I could not see the truth until later in life.[/QUOTE]
Some internet vagabond summarized the orthodox Roman Catholic tradition on the national question in a letter that VDARE published a while back.
You can find his penetrating analysis here:
[url]http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_123001.htm[/url]
Walter
2003-10-02 16:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Those darn Catholics are at it again.... :smoke:
This important -- and telling -- quote about 'ambulance-chasing' lawyers was sent out about a month ago, but only to a few people:
"'The field of personal injury really expanded in the forties and fifties,' said Greenberg. 'A dozen or so lawyers developed this area of law, and most of them were Jewish.'" [quoting a Jewish lawyer]; from the book "Jews and Money: The Myths and the Reality," by Jewish author Gerald Krefetz; from Ticknor and Fields, New Haven/New York, 1982, page 193, hardcover.[/QUOTE]
My brother is a very successful trial lawyer - does a bit of everything but has won some obscenely large personal injury cases for plaintiffs and made just unholy gobs of cash from them. He's done literally hundreds of trials, and he's gone up against the best of them.
He told me that Jews are generally courtroom wussies. They talk big, make threats, cream you with nitpicking motions, and yada yada yada, but when it comes down to a courtroom rumble they fold and settle with their tails between their legs.
He also told me that the Irish and Italians are generally the best, because they just don't give a damn. They like to play chicken for keeps. For Jews it's too much of a business to take the big risks. It's all just show. Bravado.
Maybe the lesson is to just call them on their bluffs. My own dear brother made a$$loads of ca$h doing just that.
Walter
2003-10-11 20:55 | User Profile
The problem with Christianity is not the Christians themselves, or even the theology, but the dope dealers at the top of the Christian hierarchies. The Catholic Church obviously sold out with Vatican II, and with Pope John Paul II's bowing down to the Jews and apologies for the Crusades, the Church proved its worthlessness. The Catholic Church is also big on Hispanics and African Catholics, and seem to be more interested in developing their relationships with them versus Europeans. I remember watching EWTN, the Catholic cable network, which was airing a show called 'Mother Angelica.' The show is simply one where a fat nun yaps on prayer, morality, and other theological issues. She is pretty influential, apparently, in some Catholic circles. At the time, she was talking this monk guy, I forget his name exactly, but he also has his own show on the network. He delved into the issue of Caucasians not reproducing and intermarrying and basically rendering themselves extinct. As I was foolishly anticipating a tirade against miscegenation and perhaps Jewry, the monk concluded that, as Catholics, we need not worry about such things, because the Catholic Church is a universal Church and does not care about the fate of one race. Hello buddy, the Caucasian race created your Church, secured and perhaps perpetuated its existence, and proliferated its doctrine throughout the world. Moreover, could you imagine if this guy said something of that sort involving another race, perhaps Hispanics or blacks? It would never happen. The Catholic Church has also done a lot to move immigrants, blacks and Latinos alike, into traditionally white urban dwellings. The Catholic Church, also, has done very little to benefit the white race. Besides organizing the Crusades, which were inevitably a failure (not at the fault of the Church, though), they have only hindered European political, scientific, and in some cases economic development (see the differences in economic development between Catholic and Protestant nations during the 16th century). You could possibly argue that Catholic Spain did a lot that was pro-white, but also recall that the Moors would not have overrun Spain in the first place if the Church did not refuse to send aid to the 'heretic' Arian Christian Visigoths. I am a practicing Catholic myself, albeit my connection to the Church is only a spiritual and not really a rational one. I do not really follow the teachings of Christ ("meek shall inherit the earth," "turn the other cheek," "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," etc) but more like the pagan virtues of our forebearers. I have a lot of problems with the Bible as well, but I still go to Church. I have stopped supporting it financially, and if da-black-guy or the Jew from France is elected Pope, I am withdrawing altogether and will do my very best to convince everyone in my path to do likewise. If Ratzinger, the Hitler Jugend cleric becomes Pope, I may have a change of heart! Until then, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I really have no problem with Franco's vehement hatred of Catholics. :thumbsup:
As for Protestantism, or the "pure dosage of Christianity," it also has a lot of nutcases in influential positions as well. Squinty Pat and his bootlegging and promotion of Yidsrael is a perfect example. I, however, have had a good experience with some hardcore Protestants, people like Southern Baptists. They are typically EXTREMELY conservative, and by default must despise Jews and conclude that they are damned to hell for following their false religion. The only problem is that some do believe that the Jews were once the Chosen people of 'G-d.'
I have had little experience with the Orthodox church, but I have seen upper Orthodox priests go live with some ebullient anti-Semitic rhetoric. Their bulldozing of a Church that sponsored a gay marriage was also music to my ear..well, eyes, since I read about it. Furthermore, their priests can marry, and from what I know they do not take the Bible as the sole dogma of truth in the world like the Protestants do. They also do not seem to be participating in flooding their host countries with untermenschen, but rather are more prone to support the forces of conservatism and nationalism in their host countries. The Eastern Orthodox Church gets a thumbs up from me.
2003-10-11 21:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=perun1201]I will try to find this book of yours. However you claim that Christianity came to power while Rome was already crumbling. As St. Augustine stated that Rome faced disaster and corruption before Christ was even born. The Celts sacked Rome, Rome nearly collasped when Hannibal invaded. Rome's Republic fell victim to ambitious generals like Sulla and eventually by Caesar. Then of course several Roman emperors were assasinated by the very men who were supposed to protect him(the Praetorian Guard). I believe around 193AD(don't quote me on this) the Praetorian Guard even conducted an auction bid for the title of emperor. Clearly Rome's fall was baked in the cake before Christ was born and before Christianity became the major religion of the empire. Even Tacitus condemned Roman immorality as opposed to the more virturous Germanic tribes.[/QUOTE]
Rome collapsed for a variety of reasons. It overextended itself, its economy imploded due to usury and inflation, it had far too many different nationalities with different interests, et cetera. Christianity could have theoretically saved the Empire if it had been adopted earlier. Emperor Caras led a campaign against the Persians, or Parthians, which was immensely successful and resulted in the seizure of their capital. If the campaign was completed, Rome would have successfully eliminated its Eastern front and could have concentrated on Germania. Caras, however, was struck by lightning, and in the middle of the campaign various pagan soothsayers in the army predicted the doom of the legions (despite the fact that there was virtually no opposition to the Romans). The Roman army then withdrew due to the superstitions of their irrational pagan faith, and the Persians were allowed to rebuild and begin harassing the Romans once more.
Either way, I could care less about the destruction of the Roman Empire, it was a good thing for the white race in general. The suppression of its knowledge and advancement, though (by the Church mainly), was detrimental.
2003-10-11 21:31 | User Profile
Walter:
Your brother is absolutely correct.
2003-10-11 21:31 | User Profile
Well, with modern JudeoChristians in their pro-Jew mode, you have both the Left and the Right embracing our enemy -- the Left's attitude towards Izweal notwithstanding.
The very people who should be warning others that Jews are big trouble [i.e. non-PC-as-a-rule "conservative Christians"] are the very people who are aiding the enemy. This goes directly to what Tex accused me of earlier -- picking on Christians for no good reason. I have a very good reason for such picking-on.
:hitler:
2003-10-12 06:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE]The Eastern Orthodox Church gets a thumbs up from me.[/QUOTE]
From me, as well.
I have good oooooold Orthodox friends with whom I've carried on a decades long discussion.
I see the reason of their position.
We're not very far apart in OFFICIAL doctrine, the truth be told. I think that the Orthodox have a good case that Rome treated them with far less respect than they deserved in the past (I'm putting it mildly), and most of the problems stem from a terrible boorishness on the part of my own Church.
The doctinal differences are real, however. Rome added the words "and the Son" to the Creed, which the Orthodox take as terrible heresy. I believe that once they've read the arguments in favour of it in the Catechism, they generally say "well, okay, if that's what you meant that's not heresy, but why in the world do you think you can change the wording of a Council?" I agree that it was at least impolitic.
The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is another difference - the two Churches remember those events differently.
We also have a different understanding of the role of the Roman Pontiff, although I suspect that even there we're closer than we imagine.
I think that the first step is to lift the excommunication and "get the Church breathing with both lungs" as JPII put it.
But all of that is rather small and surmountable. The big problem we face now is the horrific infiltration of Modernists of our own Roman Catholic Church.
God help us.
Walter
2003-10-12 07:48 | User Profile
The Catholic Church is dying. It has been in a serious state of decline since they ditched the Latin Mass. How many people regularly go to Church? Hardly any. The ones that do are losing faith in the actual Church by the day. How many 'modern' Catholics do you know that attend Mass regularly? I personally know none... How come so many are in high clerical positions? A degree of isolation between the lower and upper tiers of any structure always causes a breakdown. Also, the Pope's failure to effectively deal with the pedophiles in the church shows great weakness. If I was Pope, I would have personally summoned such people to the Vatican and had them executed. It's his state, he could do it. =P
Either way, the more the Church liberalizes and modernizes, the more it accelerates its demise.
2003-10-12 14:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Paragon]The Catholic Church is dying. It has been in a serious state of decline since they ditched the Latin Mass. How many people regularly go to Church? Hardly any. The ones that do are losing faith in the actual Church by the day. How many 'modern' Catholics do you know that attend Mass regularly? I personally know none... How come so many are in high clerical positions? A degree of isolation between the lower and upper tiers of any structure always causes a breakdown. Also, the Pope's failure to effectively deal with the pedophiles in the church shows great weakness. If I was Pope, I would have personally summoned such people to the Vatican and had them executed. It's his state, he could do it. =P
Either way, the more the Church liberalizes and modernizes, the more it accelerates its demise.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't count the RCC out just yet, Paragon.
She's survived far worse than this. Heck, she's come within a hare's breath of snuffing it many times and in many places. Revolutionary France leaps to mind.
Show the RCC a Reformation, and she'll respond with a Counter Reformation that will knock your socks off. New orders will arise. The answer is probably already out there, but we haven't recognized it yet.
Walter
2003-10-15 23:24 | User Profile
Two books permanantly on my nightstand:
The Holy Bible and Thomas Jefferson's [I]Writings[/I].
Ausonius
2003-10-16 02:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis] I think that the Orthodox have a good case that Rome treated them with far less respect than they deserved in the past (I'm putting it mildly), and most of the problems stem from a terrible boorishness on the part of my own Church. [/QUOTE]
Well yes the Latin rite did. For centuries the Latin rite imposed a practice called "Latinization" on the Eastern Catholics(commonly refered to as "Orthodox in communion with Rome"). Heres a website that should explain more.
** [url]http://home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/eastfaq.html[/url]
What is Latinization and why is it wrong?
Latinization is the wrongheaded practice of forcing Eastern Catholics to conform to the practices of the Roman Rite. It is rooted in a certain cultural arrogance; the attitude that "My form of Catholicism is the only 'correct' form". Latinizers have a lack of respect for the ancient Eastern rituals. They can neither appreciate their beauty and uniqueness, nor perceive how the Holy Spirit has formed them, distinct from the Roman Rite in policy and practice yet united to it in the one Mystical Body of Christ!
Latinization is rare today, but has had tragic results in the past. It has caused resentment among Eastern Catholics, who (understandably) don't like being told that their Catholicism is "wrong" or "deficient" - when it isn't! This has sadly led to schisms and defections to Eastern Orthodoxy, where the Eastern ways are always preserved.
The irony is that this foolish attempt to enforce unity through conformity just leads to more disunity! If a tree is known by its fruits (Matthew 7:16-20) then the bad fruits of Latinization are a strong testimony against it! The Vatican officially condemns Latinization and encourages Eastern Catholics to preserve their own traditions and customs. **
Thankfully Vatican II did bring an end to the practice of Latinizations. What most Traditionalist Catholics don't realize is that many of the reforms brought about by Vatican II were inspired by the Eastern Rite. Best example is giving mass in the venicular language has always been an Eastern tradition. Vatican II has in many ways brought the Eastern Rite's issues more to the forefront of the Catholic Church and John Paul II has shown great sensitivity to our issues as well.
So I support the Latin Rite's efforts to reclaim its own traditions, but please do realize that Vatican II did bring benifets to the Eastern Rite and that Traditionalists in the Roman should become more aquainted with our traditions as well.
For more info on the Eastern Catholic Church(to which I belong) visit here [url]http://home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/eastern.html[/url]
2003-10-16 02:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]
The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is another difference - the two Churches remember those events differently.
Walter[/QUOTE]
How does the Orthodox Church "remember" this remarkable event?
Btw, Muslims believe that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him) ascended to Heaven on a magical winged-steed. Does any one know the said magical winged-steedââ¬â¢s name? Pegasus? Paging Wintermuteââ¬Â¦
One more question:
How did these beings avoid combusting upon leaving the stratosphere?
2003-10-16 02:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]How does the Orthodox Church "remember" this remarkable event?
Btw, Muslims believe that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him) ascended to Heaven on a magical winged-steed. Does any one know the said magical winged-steed’s name? Pegasus? Paging Wintermute…[/QUOTE]
You really like to knee-jerk the monotheists now don't you?
Hey I think I see a dark elf running in my back yard now! :lol:
2003-10-16 02:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]How does the Orthodox Church "remember" this remarkable event?
Btw, Muslims believe that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him) ascended to Heaven on a magical winged-steed. Does any one know the said magical winged-steedââ¬â¢s name? Pegasus? Paging Wintermuteââ¬Â¦[/QUOTE]
If memory serves, it was a four winged Cow.
2003-10-16 02:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=perun1201] Hey I think I see a dark elf running in my back yard now! :lol:[/QUOTE]
No, maybe it was a Valkyrie, I can't quite remember. :lol:
2003-10-19 00:00 | User Profile
Kill all the lawyers, especially trial lawyers.