H/T @dom [on Tunis]for theme song (I’d forgotten that one but Toto was very popular when I graduated high school back in 1979, and still so in 1982 when they cut this song)
Dugin Blesses the Rains Down in Africa
From discussion about an online forum, a Discord (heh), being destroyed by Trump Derangement Syndrome epidemic among marginally rational leftists…
(after quoting Bohm as above)
Some time ago there was an anthropologist who lived for a long while with a North American tribe. It was a small group of about this size. The hunter-gatherers have typically lived in groups of twenty to forty. Agricultural group units are much larger. Now, from time to time that tribe met like this in a circle. They just talked and talked and talked, apparently to no purpose. They made no decisions. There was no leader. And everybody could participate. There may have been wise men or wise women who were listened to a bit more – the older ones – but everybody could talk. The meeting went on, until it finally seemed to stop for no reason at all and the group dispersed.
Yet after that, everybody seemed to know what to do, because they understood each other so well. Then they could get together in smaller groups and do something or decide things. In this large group we are not going to decide what to do about anything. This is crucial. Otherwise we are not free. We must have an empty space where we are not obliged to do anything, nor to come to any conclusions, nor to say anything or not say anything. It’s open and free. It’s an empty space. ‘Occupied’ is the opposite of leisure; it’s full. So we have here a kind of empty space where anything may come in – and after we finish, we just empty it. We are not trying to accumulate anything. That’s one of the points about a dialogue. As a friend of mine used to say, “The cup has to be empty to hold something.”
The simple rule: Hunter-Gatherer communities with ca. 40 active participants should prohibit lobbying for solutions (discussions, politics).. and just let everyone say what they want freely. Look, we’re hard wired as a species and we can’t escape certain things. Nothing destroys a real community of real humans faster than trying to form a debating society– it always ends up being a mock battle between two teams to play at wearing masks and being Shamans. The fix for the community is easy: two rules 1/ no proposed ‘solutions’ to ‘problems’ and 2/ no debating them. That activity always ends in tears unless the community is sound to begin with (modern man is not) and can get into the mimetic play-spirit of it.
As far as ‘discussing politics and solutions’ at all is concerned, we should treat it like an illness. In a real community around a real campfire, if you’re sick, please go to the outer darkness at least 40′ away to vomit. Don’t throw up on the campfire in front of everyone.
Things I won’t say at the TGS discord: Alexander Dugin’s theory of ethnos and society (book title) stresses the importance in ethnoses of there being ‘two halves of the tribe’, most especially for choosing mates.
This is not a result of the usual ‘incest taboos have to do with genetics’ thing (that can be proven). It’s a way archaic societies set themselves up with a sort of ritual exogamy, by dividing into two halves and you can’t marry a spouse from your half. This encourages within tribe diversity
A lot of what we see with politics and divisions is, I think, our highly complex modern society breaking down and going insane, to the point that the archaic and mental ‘underpinnings’ of society itself are not just making a comeback, but beginning to manifest in bizarre ways
You could writethe red/blue or urban/country divides off in politics as being a sort of game (a city boy must marry a country lass, and a country boy must marry a soccer mom/karen from the city… for racial vigour)
But we are seeing bizarre things like the ‘transgender’ movement, which means that the two opposing teams are reduced to ‘male and female’, and one chooses a mask to manifest the ‘chosen sex’ that literally possesses them, and now is treated as an arbitrary sociological factor, such as dividing the tribes clans into two phratries (opposing rival teams) for play.
In archaic societies, the god and goddess possess the individual male or female, so the divine is primary, and the sex or gender roles a manifestation of the divine.
Anyway, Dugin (discussion at other Discord. heh. heh. Fnord. There’s a second foundation… at Thread’s End) points out that archaic societies invariably have two rules, no exceptions in human societies of that stage: 1/ the incest taboo, but understood as underpinning for the aggregation of the tribe’s families or clans into (two) phrateries, and 2/ dancing.
We need to remember the importance of music and group trance formation… I propose TGS have a theme song we can all hum.
‘I bless the rains down in Africa’
So where am I going with this?
In order to discuss, properly, the Quadrivium, in a pedagogical context, I need to place the Quadrivium in the context of Middle and Neo-Platonism. This, effectively, gives Dugin’s theories a STEM component that is latent, in the 4th Political Theory (because Platonism), but not explicit outside it’s Implicate Order.
This, to me, means that there is an obvious way to MATHEMATICIZE the 4PT, which is to use Hamilton-Jacobi theory.
Why?
Because as Bohm pointed out in his
1952, A Suggested Interpretation of Quantum Theory in Terms of Hidden Variables
The work of Hamiltons (the Quaternions guy) and Jacobi, in the 1860s, is an under appreciated anticipation of Quantum Theory — that is, of 20th century STEM in its final flowering.
Hamilton-Jacobi theory also underpins, in Applied Mathematics (‘Operations Research’ — the von Neumann/Turing stuff you know) Optimal Control Theory.
So we are at a stage that Quantum Theory, Optimal Control (of Society and Politics), and Reinforcement Learning for Artificial Intelligence are all talking past each other.
We must Mathematicise the 4PT
From TBC version of this thread
Dugin Blesses the Rains Down in Africa
H/T @dom for theme song (I’d forgotten that one but Toto was very popular when I graduated high school back in 1979, and still so in 1982 when they cut this song) Dugin Blesses the Rains Down in Africa From discussion about an online forum, a Discord (heh), being destroyed by Trump…
tunisbayclub.com
Let the record show that the possibility of combining Bohmian Mechanics and Reinforcement Learning (Q-learning) for Artificial Intelligence, was first mentioned here at TBC, to my knowledge.
I do remember, at the old Stumble Inn (now in archives), we had some thread or SB convo about ‘what is the most interesting thing to you right now’ and I mentioned, to the group having the conversation, HJB theory in an RL context. I recall Johnson replied, ‘Woo-Hoo… Party at Macrobius’ House’. However, I didn’t spell out the connections.
So yes. The Johnson Option.
This would have been in late 2010 or early 2011… this thread at Salo was looking back to that time:
A follow up on my ideas here, along with a discussion of how Pepe manifests.
Kek. [1]
[1]: https://www.ecosophia.net/tag/kek/
I do believe, though, that our insights into sequential training and Deep Learning will now lead us to rediscover human developmental stages and Group Dynamics — the later being ‘a neural net of neural nets’ (Hopfield network) in its own right, and showing primitive behavioural phenomena (AI) in its own right.
Fairly decent prediction for 2011. I was pointing specifically to Wilfrid Bion’s work as it relates to autism, and also Melanie Klein’s psychoanalysis.
@Vladimir probably sees what I did there — connecting Hamilton and Maxwell on the Aether and Particles which emerge from a wave field, to Quantum Mechanics (Bohm did this), and then applying it to our current craze is ‘Scrying by number’ (AI).
Thus, matter emerges from the waves in the hidden field by ‘folding and unfolding’ the ‘vacuum’ (a plenum, really), like as the wave, like a soliton,[1] moves in its medium–an enfolding of matter and form.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton
The soliton phenomenon was first described in 1834 by John Scott Russell who observed a solitary wave in the Union Canal in Scotland. He reproduced the phenomenon in a wave tank and named it the “Wave of Translation“. The Korteweg–de Vries equation was later formulated to model such waves, and the term “soliton” was coined by Norman Zabusky and Martin David Kruskal to describe localized, strongly stable propagating solutions to this equation. The name was meant to characterize the solitary nature of the waves, with the “on” suffix recalling the usage for particles such as electrons, baryons or hadrons, reflecting their observed particle-like behaviour.[1]
Needless to say, connecting Q-learning and Quantum Mechanics through Bohm opens up the possibility that adding the Q potential to Classical HJB learning implies that quantum computers could train AIs in a slightly different way from classical. An observation so obvious that it almost doesn’t need to be said, but I thought I’d spell that out too.
Leave a Reply