HBD Wimp-Centered View of History

10 posts

Thoughts
Sry, busy recently. Read this , and this , for starters.
Marcus

Well, it's true that he portrays Hitler as product of unique circumstances above all, but isn't this justifiable? For all his charisma, Hitler would've been irrelevant in pre-WWI Germany. He doesn't denigrate Hitler's abilities IMO and stresses his unique connection with the German people.

Thoughts

There is not enough expansion, in the entire secondary literature on Hitler, of this single short remark by Liddell Hart first made in 1968:

On the other hand, this passage is often cited, and *agreed with*, but no one seems to really trace out its full consequences.

I say that Hitler would have become some other prominent figure, maybe an entrepreneur. He would be a top contributor to my thread on the subject.
Marcus

I really recommend Alan Clark's book on Barbarossa, he does a good job of debunking the caricature of Hitler as a bungler who kept brilliant generals from achieving victory.

CLAMOR
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RedHand

This thread reminds me of an essay called " Big Business and German Politics" by Ernst Nolte, a post-war German historian. He recounts how the German officer class were fairly dismissive of industrialists and financiers, the scions of the industrial/financial urban middle classes who had emerged in the 17th and 18th century.

Men like von Hindenburg and Rommel had an understanding of social status that went beyond mere wealth. Service held more weight than wealth.

Compare with the current 'celebrity' class where people are famous because of wealth. The Clintons, Kanye and some NYC banking gangster all hamming it up in the same room as equals. Cash, it seems, is king.

Dogmatic Tower

The wimps' only crime is taking the world as it is: observing who has social capital, what they do with that social capital, and the terrible costs of it to ordinary men (like themselves), as well as to Western Civilization as a whole ... and logically concluding that a very different sort of man ought to be in charge. BAP's analysis is correct, but also missing the wimps' point.

I could argue that BAP's heroic, creative, conquering "Aryan" type no longer exists in any meaningful sense in the Western world. Certainly they no longer constitute a power elite, so their virtues are wasted. You're more likely to find men like that in ISIS: highly motivated to spread across the entire world, impose themselves upon the weak and depraved, and build something of power and glory. You're more likely to find the equivalents of the old epics playing out between ghetto street gangs: an aristocratic/warrior culture that prizes swagger, courage, and hardness above all else fueling endless petty striving for reputation and trophies. But since this striving plays out in a world already built and full (rather than a world made new by the passing of the Ice Age ... or the forging of bronze), it is rendered irrelevant and will be remembered by nobody.

That, or men like that who exist today are no longer cloaked by a haze of romanticism, and are seen for what they really are: just another kind of animal - in this case, a predator, who does not embody any values other than acquisition of wealth and power by any available means. BAP admits that the epic heroes and the empire builders were essentially pirates. The Iliad is the story of a bride abduction. Tain bo Cuailnge is the story of a cattle raid. The conquistadors were impoverished minor nobility whose only goal was getting rich. And what culture has ever looked fondly upon pirates? Hell, even our degenerate age can only do it by reinventing them as sexless proto-commies who were “punk” before it was cool.

I also observe that BAP has written about a life cycle of imperial peoples: they expand but are in time assimilated by their own subjects, collapse into decadence and miscegenation, and once extinct they rule from beyond the grave only as long as their subalterns choose to perpetuate the imperial institutions… and the future belongs to the bovine peasant peoples, who endure despite conquest after conquest. If our goal is to preserve our race and our culture, and if that goal is worth pursuing for its own sake, then how would one explain the contradiction between these two mandates: self-preservation and imperial expansion? Though the Jews seem to have found a happy median: they have diligently conserved their tribe over 2000 years since the destruction of their temple and their dispersal into exile, yet have spread over the entire face of the earth and have built a shadow empire where even nominally free peoples labor and fight for the Jews rather than themselves.

Herr Gundolf
Aristocracy is not a political class. It cannot be justified on the basis of its effect. If it has any measure, it has created that measure. The error that treats aristocracy as though it were a political class has its origin in a slave or subject perspective. This perspective measures the value of an act by its means, its effect: as a slave one asks: how will this affect me? (the view of someone acted upon, who is a means, not who acts). The aristocrat is closer to the artist. What makes the art critic such a worm is that he makes a judgement according to how he has received a work: he is a woman and slavish. A great moment, such as every aristocracy is, and every artwork, is worth more than 2000 years of "self-preservation." If one wants an indication of the damage that this "self-preservation" can do one can look at the crippled and neurotic Jewish psyche: perhaps the Jew was cursed to survive?

When I see the people who talk about "cultural preservation," and attempt to picture the world they would create if they succeeded, I see something with very little in common with what they want to "preserve." These are people who want to cheat themselves into a legacy they have no right to. The very best of them have confused the means (and really meager means: race, culture, nationality) as something justified in itself. What gave any of these things their justification and meaning in the first place is completely missing. One has no right to even talk about "preservation" after one has committed such a stupid brutality. What has one really preserved? One has preserved a mummy; one has preserved NOTHING.
Dogmatic Tower
I think you mean to say "This perspective measure the value of an act by its ends, its effect".

I could argue that the death of art since the early 20th Century is the product of exactly this kind of self-referential mentality. Artists take the position that what they create is endowed with inherent value because it first has value to the artist himself … and therefore the audience must praise it (and its creator), even if it's a commercial urinal pulled out of a dumpster and signed.

There is nothing and there is no potential for anything without existence. A dead aristocracy might as well never have existed, while a living people, even if they are all peasants, at the very least is a seed from which creativity and greatness can sprout in Spengler's spring. The notion that noble death is preferable to common life only makes any sense to a person who is completely alienated from themselves: a spectator who thinks they'll feel anything other than physical agony and primal horror at their passing and then float around as a ghost, witnessing the epilogue that provides a context that gives merit to their non-existence.

This begs the question of what the hell any of us are doing here? Western aristocracy true to the “heroic” Bronze Age ethos ended centuries ago: bourgeoisified into a political class of landowners and state administrators even before there was a bourgeoisie proper … with the “artistic” element inherited from the past reduced to class signaling, and what passed for merit being nothing more than possessing the money, leisure, and hired or servile labor necessary to perfect the signaling. While those of us who remain can curate aristocratic legacies and imitate them as far as we are able, if this is illegitimate, then why not throw it all away and dive happily into the abyss of vulgarity? As I said before, you'll find more authentically “aristocratic” virtues and culture in the recreational violence and fulminating narcissism of non-white ghettos than among the nominal social elite.

Would you have us believe that blacks are the true master race? Think about it: they have no concept of giving, only of taking. They have no concept of production, only seizing what belongs to another by guile or violence. If you diss them, then “It's on!” - an aristocratic duel of honor by any other name – and they think that anything other than a shameless ass-kissing is a diss, just like any powdered and perfumed aristocrat would. Wherever they go they demand total deference simply by virtue of being , and you're in the wrong for not giving it to them, at which point they get violent to force your submission. They will never put themselves in your shoes, never lower themselves to consider your needs or wants, and never trouble themselves with the harm and sorrow they cause others in single-minded pursuit of esteem among their social circle. They think that whatever they want is theirs by right, and if they don't want it then “It be sheeit!”: a sour grapes judgment right out of the pages of Nietzsche. They think that they are the “ghetto fabulous” pinnacle of humanity – the blinged-out glory of the world in their fertility, artistic creativity, and natural athleticism – and anyone who disagrees has been driven mad by envy. They're totally devoted to splendid idleness, to the pleasures of the flesh, and to sport and war; they think that work is for slaves, and “We ain't be yo' slaves, so we ain't be workin' fo' yo' cracka ass!”

It would be an incredible irony if the Hitlerite conception of the “master race” has far more in common with entitled, vain, and predatory ghetto blacks than with the temperate and productive “bourgeois” self-image of white supremacists. But then the Nazis themselves were deeply conflicted about just who and what the ideal “Aryan” would be beyond what he looked like.
Herr Gundolf
No.

The measure is not self-referential. Active types are measured by the greatness of the task they set for themselves.

You only say this because you misunderstand the measure of aristocracy and are comparing superficies. Different types exhibit the same behaviors and are not therefore the same. Example: a Shakespeare is permitted self-love; he is strong and fertile type; his taking for himself is ultimately giving, it would be a disgrace if denied.

I won't say I am for returning the human race to the bronze age. I will say they were a superior type. If there is any future to the notion of aristocracy it will come from synthesis of types, which includes the depth that 2000 years of Christianity have supplied mankind.

Since you have referenced Nietzsche, I will quote him on several points:
One should not make the mistake of thinking one "opposes" the bourgeois ethic and "supports" the aristocratic. I always and only have objected to universalization of the one or the other (examples: the gangster negro; the servus servorum ). "Supporting" an Aristocracy is worth about as much, or as little, as lamenting its decline. One doesn't elect an aristocrat, either one moves on, or is one.