Hungary's 'Orbanization' Is Worrying Europe

10 posts

Bronze Age Pervert

I'd like to see an article with what other measures Orban has taken besides consolidating his power. While I agree this article is Soros propaganda bullshit, and also agree with project of shutting out the new left and especially the foreign-funded NGO's, I'm afraid, knowing what I do about Eastern Europe, that Orban's program is indeed one of power consolidation and looting. This is what govts. there do, and if he hasn't taken other measures besides these, it will discredit rightist nationalism. The point isn't to replace the EU and Soros with native-grown looters of the sort that were running Eastern Europe in the early 1990's. If those are the only two choices, the EU has been a benefit to East European countries.

perkunos

Try as I might, I can not understand the State Department animus towards the Hungarians. I visited in 99, and they were definitely more nationalistic than any European place I have ever visited; it was even fascistic in feel. It was weird. But ... they've probably been this way since the 1920s. Austria had a similar feel, though not as extreme as Hungary.
There is no Khodorkovsky oligarch with western connections who has been deprived of power; not that I know of. It can't be some kind of Nazi thing like they say it is: the Baltics, Greece and Poles arguably have them beat in that department. They participate in the EU and NATO, and don't have particularly strong connections with the Rooskies (though the policy elders are squaucking when the Maygars signed an energy deal with the Russians ... I can't understand why keeping an old nuke plant running is some kind of big deal).
All I can think of is they made some moves to nationalize the central bank. Perhaps that's all it is. It's all I could see going on with Libya as well, so perhaps that is it.

Niccolo and Donkey
Broseph Asterion Endicott Peabody CLAMOR President Camacho Bronze Age Pervert

The New York Times weighs in.....

Defying Soviets, Then Pulling Hungary to Putin

Niccolo and Donkey

RussiaToday:

The bullying of Hungary – the country that dared to disobey the US and EU

This piece makes a great point about how the excuse of corruption is absolutely flimsy in that Hungary rates lower in corruption scoring than Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Croatia, and even Italy.

This is all about Hungary and South Stream and its refusal to fully back American foreign policy objectives while pursuing an independent and national policy.

Nikolai
Irish-American White Nationalist Attempts to Corrupt Hungarians, Complains About it on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2luc9z/ive_been_imprisoned_in_hungary_for_a_thought/

I've been imprisoned in Hungary for a "thought crime" AMA!
submitted 1 day ago by _RichardBSpencer_

My short bio:
Hi, I’m…
  • Richard B. Spencer;
  • President of The National Policy Institute, Washington Summit Publishers, and RadixJournal.com;
  • Former Assistant Editor at The American Conservative and Editor at Taki’s Magazine and AlternativeRight.com ;
  • Profiled in Salon , The Daily Caller , and Buzzfeed ;
  • While hosting a conference in Budapest, I was denounced by Hungarian Prime Minister, Viktor Orban, and arrested by the Hungarian police for “thought crimes.” I was jailed on 3-5 October, 2014.
My cause is the heritage, identity, and future of European people.
My Proof: https://flic.kr/p/pHMyFR
[–] pongvin 86 points 1 day ago

Hello! I'm a Hungarian and I've been following this incident last week, and I have a few questions.
When you entered the country, you did know that there was a travel ban already issued on your name. Whether this ban was in accordance with the constitution is still pretty much under heavy debate, but it was issued nevertheless. So why risk coming here? You basically entered the country illegally. That said, this ban seems very shady in retrospect and maybe (possibly?) without grounds.
What was the nature of your quarrel with Jobbik? What are your thoughts on them?
Thanks!

We planned a conference; we followed all Hungarian laws; we offered Hungarians an opportunity speak their minds in an open forum. I was willing to non-violently resist an unjust law that was created ad hoc by a government official. (Remember, the travel ban was for me, not the conference's participants.) I was certainly willing to be arrested, and I knew there was a possibility it would happen.
And we won. Orban looked like a fool, attempting to imprison ideas, and our conference took place and was quite successful.

I was always very skeptical of Jobbik. They represented, to me, a petty, small-minded nationalist party, that seeks Hungarian revanchism and have negative attitudes towards other Europeans. Also, their Asiatic fantasies, expressed in Vona's trip to Turkey, struck me as quite strange, and an attempt to be PC. Clearly, Hungary has a stronger bond with the Germanic world, via the Austro-Hungarian empire, than with Turks.
Anyway, I was connected to Jobbik via Arktos. And Marton Gyongyosi took part in many email exchanges and was prepared to speak.
Then, when the conference was denounced, Gyongyosi began claiming that he did't know what the conference was about. Ridiculous.
Anyway, the lesson is that it will be very difficult for our movement to work with elected officials and parties. And I think we should steer clear of bigots, like Jobbik. Our movement has very little in common with such people, which is a good thing.
[–] WhySoWorried 0 points 23 hours ago

Did you just call Hungary a backwater?

Absolutely not. I was bashing the Jobbik party, who are bigots. Hungary and Budapest are tremendous places! They deserve better than Orban and Jobbik.
[–] rumblestiltsken 1 point 9 hours ago

What is the line that you define as bigoted in this context? What do you think separates "your movement" from people like Jobbik?

[–] Evil_white_oppressor 0 points 6 hours ago

Jobbik is my favorite nationalist party in Europe right now. I'm tired of nationalist parties being pro Zionist.
Bronze Age Pervert
https://twitter.com/BronzeAgePerv/status/532015464894169089
Nikolai

White Nationalism has no place in Europe, especially in Hungary. They are completely surrounded by hostile Slavic countries (Aside from Poland and Croatia) and their only historical allies have been Poland and Turkey. He comes to Budapest ignorant of their historical and political views, insults their nationalist party, and attempts to import American White Nationalism to the "uncultured eastern europeans"...only to be hauled off by police that warned him weeks beforehand. I only wish Matt Heimbach could have made it out. I would have loved to see the police snatch is Orthodox medallion away, before hauling him off.

Aside from being imprisoned for 2 days, Spencer should have been stripped naked, tarred and feathered, forced to walk down Vaci Street in shame. Irish need not apply.

Bronze Age Pervert

I'd like to see a study done on Orban from this point of view, and not from one where we side with nationalism in any form because of the politics of the US and West Europe. In Eastern Europe, nationalism has a different meaning and is not as needed...it might even be destructive, or fulfill the stereotypes about bad nationalism. For one, East Europe isn't dealing with the big problem of immigration; second, financial liberalism and internationalism hasn't been as destructive in East Europe as in the West. A good argument can be made that it improved conditions and took power away from post-Communist elites.

A big problem with East European nationalism is the nature of these post-Communist elites. Many are former commies who became nouveau riche in the Russian oligarch model; then they mobilize phoney nationalism to build up their own power. Their power base is old people on pensions, rural voters, the rump of the working class, and yes, often, gypsies and such. This is the case in Romania for example; I wasn't very aware of the politics of that nation but Klaus Johannis' recent surprise win http://www.newser.com/story/198762/in-romania-a-surprise-victor-vows-deep-change.html made me look some more into it. The loser of this race, Victor Ponta, is a typical post-commie apparatchik supported by the old ex-commie guard, who invokes an especially petty form of nationalism against Johannis; his power base is as I said, plus the nouveau riche class and the Orthodox church. His aim is to centralize power and gain immunity for himself and his friends from corruption, which is widespread.

This same model exists elsewhere in Eastern Europe, with Milosevic being an especially awful example; those wars were entirely fabricated to keep him and his cronies in power, and it represents the most cynical and petty type of nationalism. I don't know to what extent other nationalist parties in Eastern Europe are the same. This is why I'd like to see an honest study of Orban and his background. Just because the biggest danger in the West is a fake internationalism based on cynical financial and ideological interests, doesn't mean it's good to support ex-commie elites in Eastern Europe, who invoke a very petty cynical nationalism and wreck their nations with retarded socialist policies.
Bronze Age Pervert
perkunos

I don't think "Spencer" is an Irish name: Sassenach.